Ma Long's Technique in Detail

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what about waldner? inside out,hooked,fast,slow, no spin,etc etc

To be honest, Waldner's variation just isn't possible in today's game. The speed and more importantly the amount of spin in today's game makes it so that the margin of error is simply too small to do all the varied things that Waldner did to any consistent degree.

I don't know I would say if Ma Long's forehand is the best, simply because he pushes the speed so much and relies predominately on speed, that because humans can only react so fast, he sometimes causes himself to mess up or ends up giving himself too little reaction time, when someone just back his hit or adds just a little bit to the return shot. Its why his win percentage against Boll isn't as good as good as it should be. Boll is good enough with offense and is consistent enough to get it back often that Ma Long sometimes is caught not being able to adjust quick enough for the next shot.

Don't give me wrong though, most players aren't good enough to take advantage of this, and he has practiced enough, and is so quick that usually this isn't a weakness, and he is able to adjust quick enough.
 
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To be honest, Waldner's variation just isn't possible in today's game. The speed and more importantly the amount of spin in today's game makes it so that the margin of error is simply too small to do all the varied things that Waldner did to any consistent degree.

I don't know I would say if Ma Long's forehand is the best, simply because he pushes the speed so much and relies predominately on speed, that because humans can only react so fast, he sometimes causes himself to mess up or ends up giving himself too little reaction time, when someone just back his hit or adds just a little bit to the return shot. Its why his win percentage against Boll isn't as good as good as it should be. Boll is good enough with offense and is consistent enough to get it back often that Ma Long sometimes is caught not being able to adjust quick enough for the next shot.

Don't give me wrong though, most players aren't good enough to take advantage of this, and he has practiced enough, and is so quick that usually this isn't a weakness, and he is able to adjust quick enough.

Is it because of the 40mm ball or the bat ? (about the Waldner thing )
 
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scylla24 can I ask what level you play? You seem to know alot about tabletennis.
 
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Only video I could lay hands on for Waldner v/s Ma Long .
I was amazed at the backhand punches Waldner did to a few of Ma Longs Forehand drives.
I guess its unfair to compare across generations. You can never tell what an icon of one generation ( in this case , waldner ) could have achieved if he was in in his prime in the current generation.
In my opinion if we are to compare we should compare within the generation of player because it is a fair comparison especially with a game like table tennis which is high on complexity of technique
 
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nice video of Ma Long vs Werner Schaleger :)
still in young age he already have that awesome forehand..
and he is using acoustic in that video, my one of favorite blade ^^
 
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It seems like everybody, including the article, failed to recognize one very important part of Ma Long's technique: his left arm.

If you take a close look, his left arm is always playing an important part in generating power, especially far from the table. He pulls his left arm in like a lawnmower, and, if you know your physics, this greatly increases the torque in his body, increasing power with little effort. Depending on the shot he wants to do, he'll adjust how quickly or how much he pulls his left arm into his body.
 
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To be honest, Waldner's variation just isn't possible in today's game. The speed and more importantly the amount of spin in today's game makes it so that the margin of error is simply too small to do all the varied things that Waldner did to any consistent degree.

I don't know I would say if Ma Long's forehand is the best, simply because he pushes the speed so much and relies predominately on speed, that because humans can only react so fast, he sometimes causes himself to mess up or ends up giving himself too little reaction time, when someone just back his hit or adds just a little bit to the return shot. Its why his win percentage against Boll isn't as good as good as it should be. Boll is good enough with offense and is consistent enough to get it back often that Ma Long sometimes is caught not being able to adjust quick enough for the next shot.

Don't give me wrong though, most players aren't good enough to take advantage of this, and he has practiced enough, and is so quick that usually this isn't a weakness, and he is able to adjust quick enough.

Spin and speed are actually less than the 38 mm days. The difference today is that countering is harder with the heavier ball. The 38 mm was somewhere between 15 and 20 percent lighter than the 40 mm ball and in today's standards it's only gotten heavier. And who knows what it will be with the new pvc ball coming out after 2012.

I hate when people compare Waldner to today's game. He in his prime wouldn't be able to do what he did during the 38 mm ball era. Service, point system, technique, and tactics are all different from his era to ours. Not to mention that he evolved the game and the Chinese have taken what he did to the sport and evolved it again with Wang Liqin, Ma Lin in the Early 2000's, and Ma Long and Zhang Jike in the later 2000's.

Ma Long's forehand is quite fast, but it also has more spin than any non Chinese forehand. He's pushing the trinity not just the speed of the shot. Boll played so well against Ma that he could attack Ma's Backhand (where he would step around) and then block to the open forehand. It's why Ma started to work more on his Backhand to make it more consistent and more powerful.

Ma in his earlier years was too focused on using his forehand as much as possible rather than pay attention to his tactics. It's why he did so great last year, and why when he recovers from his injuries fully (which could be very soon from how's done lately) he'll climb back to number 1 again.

@ Carl - Wang Liqin to this day still has the strongest forehand. If you watch their matches Wang and Ma are very close in style in that Ma rarely drop shots someone who's lobbing and chooses to over power by slam as WLQ did. When WLQ can instigate his forehand he has a higher winning percentage of that point than anyone on the Chinese team. Because he's lost a lot of his speed in footwork they force errors to his backhand because he knows if he steps around they'll put it towards his forehand and he'll miss the counter. Ma is perhaps the only player that will let WLQ play a forehand to forehand rally, but wins typically only by shooting one down the line towards his backhand making WLQ hit a defensive lob or a poor counter.

@ DaKrazed - um the left hand is typically an aiming point of origin. It helps to show where the ball will likely go because it's approximately where the paddle will be at the point of impact. And the physics of it would only apply torque if he were actually able to grab onto something which in the case of TT is the table and illegal. Force is equally pushed and pulled upon two opposing objects so to apply torque Ma would need something else to touch in order for him to increase his torque. Just wanted to be clear there.
 
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Spin and speed are actually less than the 38 mm days. The difference today is that countering is harder with the heavier ball. The 38 mm was somewhere between 15 and 20 percent lighter than the 40 mm ball and in today's standards it's only gotten heavier. And who knows what it will be with the new pvc ball coming out after 2012.

I hate when people compare Waldner to today's game. He in his prime wouldn't be able to do what he did during the 38 mm ball era. Service, point system, technique, and tactics are all different from his era to ours. Not to mention that he evolved the game and the Chinese have taken what he did to the sport and evolved it again with Wang Liqin, Ma Lin in the Early 2000's, and Ma Long and Zhang Jike in the later 2000's.

Ma Long's forehand is quite fast, but it also has more spin than any non Chinese forehand. He's pushing the trinity not just the speed of the shot. Boll played so well against Ma that he could attack Ma's Backhand (where he would step around) and then block to the open forehand. It's why Ma started to work more on his Backhand to make it more consistent and more powerful.

Ma in his earlier years was too focused on using his forehand as much as possible rather than pay attention to his tactics. It's why he did so great last year, and why when he recovers from his injuries fully (which could be very soon from how's done lately) he'll climb back to number 1 again.

@ Carl - Wang Liqin to this day still has the strongest forehand. If you watch their matches Wang and Ma are very close in style in that Ma rarely drop shots someone who's lobbing and chooses to over power by slam as WLQ did. When WLQ can instigate his forehand he has a higher winning percentage of that point than anyone on the Chinese team. Because he's lost a lot of his speed in footwork they force errors to his backhand because he knows if he steps around they'll put it towards his forehand and he'll miss the counter. Ma is perhaps the only player that will let WLQ play a forehand to forehand rally, but wins typically only by shooting one down the line towards his backhand making WLQ hit a defensive lob or a poor counter.

@ DaKrazed - um the left hand is typically an aiming point of origin. It helps to show where the ball will likely go because it's approximately where the paddle will be at the point of impact. And the physics of it would only apply torque if he were actually able to grab onto something which in the case of TT is the table and illegal. Force is equally pushed and pulled upon two opposing objects so to apply torque Ma would need something else to touch in order for him to increase his torque. Just wanted to be clear there.

I definitely agree that the speed was faster during the 38mm days. In terms of spin, I am not so sure. Spin and speed are mostly contradictory aspects of the table tennis game. And its not even about ball, I think the training of the Chinese team, and just in table tennis in general, the today's game produces much spinner loops.

As for your statement about Ma Lin, I am not sure I would completely agree. I don't think in his earlier years he was too focused on his forehand. That is his main strength, and the main strength in his very style is its need for speed, amazing quickness, and an amazing forehand. The reason why he has now has to concentrate on tactics is because his body no longer allows him to do the stuff that ideally his style of play would require. During the time when his body was up to par, the amount of spin and quickness in his game was at his highest, his three ball attack game was at a level that his game just doesn't approach today. I also think that his tactics even in his earlier days were quite good. It takes a lot of thinking and tactical skills to have a game that is able to master the serve, short game so well that it relies so heavily on the third ball attack. And I think its why Schlager in his interview still said Ma Lin was the Chinese player that impressed him the most. Back in his prime, pretty much all the coaches in China agreed that Ma Lin had probably the most spin of any Chinese player. His record within the Super League back then was something like 30+ wins to 2-3 loses. So I think I think Ma Lin when he was younger was focusing on exactly what he ought to have been focusing on. Its the same argument as to why I think Xu Xin's backhand is actually exactly what it ought to be. A lot of people say his backhand needs improvement, but in my opinion, its quick reaction rate and its relatively high degree of spin is exactly what he should have, because it sets up his main weapon which is his forehand. If he had a better backhand, he would use it more, and in turn might actually be worse off, because he wouldn't be using his amazing forehand.
 
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