Paris Olympic Games 2024

[NextLevel]

Those 2 narratives are not in conflict. He's a very, very good player whose game is capped and has a questionable future as a CNT challenger...provided the said CNT member didn't have his racket broken the night before. If WCQ had drawn Kallberg in the Ro32, I would've figured it a tough draw for example, but like everyone else wouldn't have thought much of it as I'd still expect WCQ to win fairly handily...provided he didn't break his racket the night before. Hindsight is indeed helpful here as no one would've cared to added the broken racket qualifier before the Olympics. When that happened, suddenly the tough draw actually mattered.

Without his defeat of WCQ he would've had 4-1 and 3-2 losses to FZD, which is par for the course for him against the CNT, specifically FZD (his previous 2 matches against FZD were 4-2 and 3-1 losses). Against other top non-Chinese players he would've beaten Calderano and who else? Kao, Assar, Lind, Boll, and Shinnozuka? And then a loss to Harimoto. If Moregard had entered 2 WTT tournaments and I told you his best win in them were Calderano and his run in each tournament was ended by Harimoto and FZD respectively, would it have been a surprising result?

A breakthrough tournament that changes perception is something Annett Kaufmann had, with repeated breakthrough performances, thumping Lily, Batra, Akula, and Miwa. Moregard had one upset with an asterisk, and otherwise performed well but nothing spectacular. This also doesn't change the fact that he's a tough draw for any top seed in a Ro 32.

The problem with that narrative is that just about no one else pushed FZD and WCQ except Truls and Sweden.with the notable exception of Harimoto (who lost to FZD, LYJ, Kallberg and Felix). But you forget conveniently that Omar had beaten Truls the last two times they played each other as well. Shinozuka beat Truls the last time they played. If WCQ is unlucky to get an opponent he has.never lost even a game against, then you can tell any story you want. The truth is that Truls likely mostly as a result of improved fitness did a great job. WCQ was not unlucky because of seeding difficulty. He was unlucky to lose.

 

[turbozed]

Of course it makes sense to you, you and her are paranoid whenever Xi Jinping goes to the toilet, or is a minute late to an event. Enjoy these videos bruh.

Yeah no good faith arguments just attacks. I don't think you've ever said anything useful or funny on here so I don't mind ignoring you either.

Enjoy spreading your shit attitude over the internet.

 

[Lazer]

Japanese fans have been throwing mud at Harimoto on X?

It’s disgusting isn’t it. You win a few and you loose a few. I think virtually all players did a good job. I haven’t seen a last few rounds this good for a long time…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Shine]

I don't know why people are trying to paint Truls like he's a one-time wonder, he's a finalist in the WTTC and Olympics, that takes talent and showing up when the moment demands it.

Besides, during his stint in China, he was never beaten thoroughly by any of the Chinese players, he lost 2-3 to all of them in very close games, that's enough said.

WCQ has a history of losing in big matches in the last 2 years. He's lost to LJH, TY, TH, TM , LYJ, JWJ all in big tournaments. That's what you should be worried about as a fan. Truls has achieved more than her in singles as of this moment.

 

[Sageofchess]

Interesting video that attempts to shed some light on maybe why the CNT looked so displeased by Chen Meng winning gold.

I don't take it was 100% gospel. The channel is generally critical of China. But she does provide some details I didnt know about, like companies already having ad campaigns ready for SYS's gold and things like that.

Also mentions how a similar situation happened in badminton in the past and the fallout from that.

The video is also argues that the vast majority of medals that China is winning isnt due to homegrown interest in the actual sports, but mostly due to state sponsored geopolitical strategy. This results in a degradation of popular sports culutre in general. I'll let you guys decide whether that's a worthwhile criticism.

For balance reasons, I'd like someone to find good counterarguments to these claims argued in as coherent a way as this lady.

In fact, just because SYS is more famous as a promoter of table tennis among CNT athletes, more people who learn about SYS in social media will support her, it has nothing to do with the official. If you know CNT, you should know that Ma Lin and Liu Guoliang are more closely related to CM than to SYS.TT is the most central sport in China, but TT is just a sport, and it is not worth for the Chinese government to step in and operate anything.
If the Chinese government wants to do something "geopolitical" in the sport, then the sport can't be internal, and there is no target for China to attack in the TT program. It is only in the case of soccer, which is in the doldrums, or in the case of traditionally Western dominated sports such as swimming and track and field, that the Chinese government has the incentive to do so. At least in the TT, CM and SYS is just a fan war between nationals, and in fact neither the Chinese government nor the CNT is paying much attention to this, just calling for sanity among the athletes' fans.

 

[latej]

For balance reasons, I'd like someone to find good counterarguments to these claims argued in as coherent a way as this lady.

With all due respect, for balance reasons, you yourself should criticise "your side" for once. You yourself repeatedly come up with critique (direct or indirect) of Russia and China. But I think, if it so happens, that you identify with some "side", and want to criticise, you should criticise your own side first, and not the "enemy" side (once we have that split, which actually we'd like to overcome). So what you do, is not helpful, it only increases the division. We should stop thinking we are better than others...

So, some balance...

And also I'd add, if some american makes a post here, which insultigly says "Where are the russians", I'd actually expect and hope that another american steps in and defends against it... So that would be a manifestation a strength for me actually... That would be the right balance ;-)

 

[NextLevel]

Germany's chances of winning bronze will likely be decided on whether they can take the first doubles.

This is a bit too much against a WTTC medal team. I think a better path is Kaufmann winning and then SXN or Wan getting lucky against Lee Eunyhe. And then hoping Kaufmann can close it out.

 

[turbozed]

In fact, just because SYS is more famous as a promoter of table tennis among CNT athletes, more people who learn about SYS in social media will support her, it has nothing to do with the official. If you know CNT, you should know that Ma Lin and Liu guoliang are closer to CM than SYS. tt is the most central movement in china, but tt is just a movement, it is not worth for the chinese government to step in and operate anything.
If the Chinese government wants to do something "geopolitical" in the sport, then the sport can't be internal, and there is no target for China to attack in the TT program. It is only in the case of soccer, which is in the doldrums, or in the case of traditionally Western dominated sports such as swimming and track and field, that the Chinese government has the incentive to do so. At least in the TT, CM and SYS is just a fan war between nationals, and in fact neither the Chinese government nor the CNT is paying much attention to it, just appealing to the athletes' fans to be sensible.

Thanks this is a reasonable perspective and what I was looking for.

I also mostly heard more controversy about CM's connections getting her picked over Wang Manyu. So there were allegations of favoritism going the other way.

Still, would you say at least that most people associated with the CNT would've preferred SYS as a boost to their more popular star and for the financial reasons that come with it? Hell even I was rooting for SYS to win because her fans seem to be funding WTT ticket sales for now, and I have an interest in WTT staying alive financially. I could only imagine the incentive is much stronger for the CNT.

 

[driversbeat]

This is a bit too much against a WTTC medal team. I think a better path is Kaufmann winning and then SXN or Wan getting lucky against Lee Eunyhe. And then hoping Kaufmann can close it out.

Still a big ask but could be a career defining match for Wan Yuan. She's already 27 and unlikely to make it for the next Olympics under normal circumstances.

 

[M51]

I don't know why people are trying to paint Truls like he's a one-time wonder, he's a finalist in the WTTC and Olympics, that takes talent and showing up when the moment demands it.

Besides, during his stint in China, he was never beaten thoroughly by any of the Chinese players, he lost 2-3 to all of them in very close games, that's enough said.

I'm under the impression that Truls is very ambitious and I can't wait to see him play in Lintz at the ETTC come October.

Curious to see if the old Truls, the inconsistent Truls, the Truls that blacks-out against underdogs like Liam Pitchford for no apparent reason is finally gone.

 

[Shine]

Yeah no good faith arguments just attacks. I don't think you've ever said anything useful or funny on here so I don't mind ignoring you either.

Enjoy spreading your shit attitude over the internet.

Where's the good faith coming from you lol, you conveniently ignored what I wrote prior to this.

Why should I be in good faith when you're not. Cos you live in and argue for some ideology doesn't mean your arguments/ideas are in good faith.

She has videos arguing that the Chinese are rude, even Tim Walz would tell her that's a lie, then she says state-owned canteens that amount to nothing in real life are coming for KFC, then the Chinese are expecting their EV industry to fail. Then on one hand Xi controls everything, on the other hand the military is mutinous and corrupt, and then the military doesn't actually serve the CCP in another video. Like c'mon this is ridiculous if one's is not naive about how China works.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Come on! Go German Go!

 

[Shine]

Thanks this is a reasonable perspective and what I was looking for.

I also mostly heard more controversy about CM's connections getting her picked over Wang Manyu. So there were allegations of favoritism going the other way.

Still, would you say at least that most people associated with the CNT would've preferred SYS as a boost to their more popular star and for the financial reasons that come with it? Hell even I was rooting for SYS to win because her fans seem to be funding WTT ticket sales for now, and I have an interest in WTT staying alive financially. I could only imagine the incentive is much stronger for the CNT.

How would you know that they would've preferred SYS though?
A lot of the brouhaha about CM connections were from netizens on the net, and you just bought into it. Just like that. I'm sure you don't buy into what 5ch folks say when Zero posts it. Chinese netizens claim the most ridiculous thing. The latest unhinged rumor is that Chen Meng sleeps with Ma Lin. Do you believe that too?

 

[driversbeat]

View attachment 31439
Come on! Go German Go!

Only Wan Yuan can make Gozo like pips.
German girls are making this competitive by bringing their forehand smashes out. Wan even fell to the ground to commit to a smash to take the 3rd game.

 

[Sageofchess]

Thanks this is a reasonable perspective and what I was looking for.

I also mostly heard more controversy about CM's connections getting her picked over Wang Manyu. So there were allegations of favoritism going the other way.

Still, would you say at least that most people associated with the CNT would've preferred SYS as a boost to their more popular star and for the financial reasons that come with it? Hell even I was rooting for SYS to win because her fans seem to be funding WTT ticket sales for now, and I have an interest in WTT staying alive financially. I could only imagine the incentive is much stronger for the CNT.

SYS is a young girl and CM is 30 years old, CNT wants to promote table tennis as a sport in China and they will choose SYS, but that doesn't mean that CNT members will be against all table tennis players other than SYS. I also don't subscribe to the idea that CM got her spot in the Olympics through the backdoor, she beat SYS, who was desperate for a Grand Slam, in the Olympics, which is the competition that best proves her prowess.

As for CNT's choice to use SYS to their advantage, I think that's at least based on the fact that SYS possesses sufficient table tennis prowess, if she wasn't a great table tennis player she wouldn't have any fame at all, and if she's strong enough, I think she deserves to be favored.

 

[M51]

The latest unhinged rumor is that Chen Meng sleeps with Ma Lin.

Lmao, who said that?

 

[NextLevel]

I'm under the impression that Truls is very ambitious and I can't wait to see him play in Lintz at the ETTC come October.

Curious to see if the old Truls, the inconsistent Truls, the Truls that blacks-out against underdogs like Liam Pitchford for no apparent reason is finally gone.

Truls beat Jorgic and Franziska in Champions League play in April. I remember him beating Pitchford before losing badly to WCQ at a tour event recently so it would be interesting to know what event you have in mind.

Waldner had a lot of losses to unheralded players. We ask a lot when we want China like dominance across all good players.

 

[turbozed]

With all due respect, for balance reasons, you yourself should criticise "your side" for once. You yourself repeatedly come up with critique (direct or indirect) of Russia and China. But I think, if it so happens, that you identify with some "side", and want to criticise, you should criticise your own side first, and not the "enemy" side (once we have that split, which actually we'd like to overcome). So what you do, is not helpful, it only increases the division. We should stop thinking we are better than others...

So, some balance...

And also I'd add, if some american makes a post here, which insultigly says "Where are the russians", I'd actually expect and hope that another american steps in and defends against it... So that would be a manifestation a strength for me actually... That would be the right balance ;-)

First of all, what's "my side"? The topic of a why the Chinese seemd unhappy about CM win was talked about multiple times in this thread. It involves the Chinese team, is related to table tennis, and provides some explanation for what we're talking about.

If you're looking for balance because you don't want to hear anything negative said about countries you like that's fine, you can go find your favorite political forum and see people shit on countries you hate. Just don't bring that attitude here when it's off-topic. And if you do bring it here, expect some pushback.

Also I don't know why you need an American to post here defending Russia. First off, it's not even a topic here in Olympics TT (so why bring it up?). Second, you are an articulate person and if someone says anything wrong or misguided you should be able to argue against it on your own.

Only non-serious people think that strength in numbers is a good argumentative tactic. It's like when those random new member scame into the forum a few months ago to try to tell us to be ashamed if we didnt agree with their position about the Dubina case. Liking their own posts and pushing their agenda while avoiding the issues. Some really pathetic behavior.

 

[NextLevel]

If Germany can miraculously win the doubles, the bronze medal window has expanded significantly.

 

[zeio]

WTTC 2023 WD Vice Champions/Asian Games 2022 WD Champions SYB/JJH: Is this really the first collaboration for Wan Yuan/SXN?