Please recommend long pips rubber for me!

[blahness]

I see your quote about equipment is gone from your signature now.

Good to know when someone has a consistent stance. And.....the opposite.

It's still there I think xD. I have no idea how to change it 😕 anyway a lot of ppl here told me how a lot of "skill" went into LP play, so this quote is still valid

 

[lodro]

I'm never "changing any rackets" during a match though, the 2 I'm using will be used from the beginning to the end.

After reading the above mentioned rule, I can not honestly say that the keen punter could deposit 1 or even more blades at the ground line with the handle sticking out and then """GRAB""" whatever he/she thinks is the best weapon at any given moment. Of course this gives the "multi-blade-player" (you read it hear first 😂 ) the opportunity to serve naturally with only one blade and then grab one or more blades as required.
For us gunslingers this used to be the norm and we even had a small derringer up the sleeve and a snub-nose .38 in the boot

 

[blahness]

I was just fooling around with it and to be honest this is insane. When my Victas Spectol S1 sheet arrives, I can actually even do SP RPB hitting to their wide FH (bet they didn't even think it was possible lmao) or even chiquita with my lefty penhold. Or twiddle and make it a true LP chiquita.

Now I understand the joy of being an evil pipster lol, this is just fun af...

 

[NextLevel]

I was just fooling around with it and to be honest this is insane. When my Victas Spectol S1 sheet arrives, I can actually even do SP RPB hitting to their wide FH (bet they didn't even think it was possible lmao) or even chiquita with my lefty penhold. Or twiddle and make it a true LP chiquita.

Now I understand the joy of being an evil pipster lol, this is just fun af...

So with this likely illegal style, which player have you beaten that you couldn't already beat? Curious.

 

[blahness]

So with this likely illegal style, which player have you beaten that you couldn't already beat? Curious.

It's not an illegal style. I've asked around and there are actually ppl in China who actually play with 2 rackets in tournaments (though from the videos they don't appear to be high level players).

Chill with the results - it's like day 1 of a style switch and I already got a game off one of the high level double inverted player I used to be roughly equal with, so the level at day 1 is already not that bad.

 

[NextLevel]

It's not an illegal style. I've asked around and there are actually ppl in China who actually play with 2 rackets in tournaments (though from the videos they don't appear to be high level players).

Chill with the results - it's like day 1 of a style switch and I already got a game off one of the high level double inverted player I used to be roughly equal with, so the level at day 1 is already not that bad.

Most of the ITTF rules imply one racket. It will be interesting to see whether there will be an interpretation that allows more than one racket to be used during a match. Remember, there are rules against changing rackets during matches.

On the results: you continue to make it sound like it is the pips themselves and your level of practice with them, rather than your overall level getting the results because you supposedly can't get the same results from your left arm with inverted. I guess the proof will be you actually beating a player you currently can't beat by taking advantage of the OP nature of the pips. Otherwise, you will just be beating players you can largely beat using unconventional methods for you.

 

[blahness]

Most of the ITTF rules imply one racket. It will be interesting to see whether there will be an interpretation that allows more than one racket to be used during a match. Remember, there are rules against changing rackets during matches.

On the results: you continue to make it sound like it is the pips themselves and your level of practice with them, rather than your overall level getting the results because you supposedly can't get the same results from your left arm with inverted. I guess the proof will be you actually beating a player you currently can't beat by taking advantage of the OP nature of the pips. Otherwise, you will just be beating players you can largely beat using unconventional methods for you.

There isnt a specific rule banning 2 rackets, so it is legal for sure. The ITTF rules also rule against boosting, hidden serves and illegal pips treatments but yet they are rampant in all competitions (yes, even the pro competitions). For someone who is "pro diversity" with all sorts of racket surfaces you are sure discriminatory af against someone who has one of the most unique styles in table tennis - isn't that quite hypocritical?

I didnt say it would increase my overall level or whatever, it's just an observation that I could do a lot of advanced stuff with LPs from day 1 which would have been impossible with inverted. Of course this is because I already have quite good basics in terms of footwork, body usage (also important for pips), spin recognition and placement anticipation, knowledge of how to add and take away momentum with the body, etc... It's not like this is a day 1 of a pure TT beginner.

 

[NextLevel]

There isnt a specific rule banning 2 rackets, so it is legal for sure. The ITTF rules also rule against boosting, hidden serves and illegal pips treatments but yet they are rampant in all competitions (yes, even the pro competitions). For someone who is "pro diversity" with all sorts of racket surfaces you are sure discriminatory af against someone who has one of the most unique styles in table tennis - isn't that quite hypocritical?

I didnt say it would increase my overall level or whatever, it's just an observation that I could do a lot of advanced stuff with LPs from day 1 which would have been impossible with inverted. Of course this is because I already have quite good basics in terms of footwork, body usage (also important for pips), spin recognition and placement anticipation, knowledge of how to add and take away momentum with the body, etc... It's not like this is a day 1 of a pure TT beginner.

The way the ITTF rules work, it isn't always through banning actions that rules are made, sometimes rules are made by logical interpretations of how the laws are written. Of course, the rules that are not enforceable or badly enforced exist, but that is a different issue from an act being indirectly prohibited by how the rules are expected to be interpreted. As I pointed out, there are rules against changing rackets during matches, as one example. The existence of unenforceable rules might be hypocritical but is entirely besides the point when dealing with a player with two rackets, an act that if illegal, is easily enforceable. It isn't hypocritical to have a view on what the rules permit and what they do not, there are people who think the rules permit carbon outer plies. A lot comes down to interpretation sometimes.

The problem with claiming to do advanced stuff with LPs is that it is only truly advanced if it beats advanced opponents. I know you play at a supposedly high level, so it will be interesting to see when the pips allow you to beat players at that level.

 

[ben1229]

If my left hand can play like yours I will give a try.

 

[blahness]

The way the ITTF rules work, it isn't always through banning actions that rules are made, sometimes rules are made by logical interpretations of how the laws are written. Of course, the rules that are not enforceable or badly enforced exist, but that is a different issue from an act being indirectly prohibited by how the rules are expected to be interpreted. As I pointed out, there are rules against changing rackets during matches, as one example. The existence of unenforceable rules might be hypocritical but is entirely besides the point when dealing with a player with two rackets, an act that if illegal, is easily enforceable.

The problem with claiming to do advanced stuff with LPs is that it is only truly advanced if it beats advanced opponents. I know you play at a supposedly high level, so it will be interesting to see when the pips allow you to beat players at that level.

It's easy, if I go to a competition I will just clarify with the organisers first and if they are so narrow minded then just screw the competition lol. Or I can just compete with my standard double inverted setup. It's not as if I forgot how to play with 2x inverted shakehand.

I am not changing any rackets as I explained in an above post because I start with 2 rackets and play through the entire game with 2 rackets.

Advanced stuff I mean dealing with high quality balls. I find that easy balls for inverted are hard for LP and vice versa. So I can pick and choose lol.

For eg spinny af short underspin, which cannot be attacked by inverted in general, but its really easy to attack those with LPs Obviously it's hard to deal with fast deep no spin or topspin serves in general with LP, but those are sitters for my inverted side and just begging to be blasted.

 

[blahness]

If my left hand can play like yours I will give a try.

I actually write with my left hand (not sure why I started TT with my right which was a stupid decision), so it's maybe a bit easier for me because I'm a natural left hander. I also play the piano at a high level and used to compete in international competitions, something that requires a lot of dexterity in both hands. So the fact that it's relatively easier for me to use my "off hand" doesn't mean it'll be easy for other ppl too.

But give it a try! Even if it doesn't work out you'll have a big blast.

 

[NextLevel]

It's easy, if I go to a competition I will just clarify with the organisers first and if they are so narrow minded then just screw the competition lol. Or I can just compete with my standard double inverted setup. It's not as if I forgot how to play with 2x inverted shakehand.

I am not changing any rackets as I explained in an above post because I start with 2 rackets and play through the entire game with 2 rackets.

Advanced stuff I mean dealing with high quality balls. I find that easy balls for inverted are hard for LP and vice versa. So I can pick and choose lol.

For eg spinny af short underspin, which cannot be attacked by inverted in general, but its really easy to attack those with LPs Obviously it's hard to deal with fast deep no spin or topspin serves in general with LP, but those are sitters for my inverted side and just begging to be blasted.

Well, again, most of the rules, when you read them, are written with the logic that a player is only permitted to use one racket. If you switch rackets from one hand to another for example, then you are changing rackets in a way that the rules did not expect. Free hands when tossing serves for example assume a hand that tosses the serves has no racket in it. The free hand cannot touch the table assumes that a player has a free hand. One can read the rules and clearly see this assumption being made repeatedly. The issue is not one of being narrow minded, I almost wonder whether you have a rating or compete in any serious events - that said, it will be good to see an umpire or the ITTF rule on the validity of your style.

It is good to hear about the tradeoffs, hopefully, it will be clearer that the only reason the long pips are good is that you are covering a lot of the gaps with your other racket. That said, we will see how far it goes. Good luck with it.

 

[blahness]

Well, again, most of the rules, when you read them, are written with the logic that a player is only permitted to use one racket. If you switch rackets from one hand to another for example, then you are changing rackets in a way that the rules did not expect. Free hands when tossing serves for example assume a hand that tosses the serves has no racket in it. The free hand cannot touch the table assumes that a player has a free hand. One can read the rules and clearly see this assumption being made repeatedly. The issue is not one of being narrow minded, I almost wonder whether you have a rating or compete in any serious events - that said, it will be good to see an umpire or the ITTF rule on the validity of your style.

It is good to hear about the tradeoffs, hopefully, it will be clearer that the only reason the long pips are good is that you are covering a lot of the gaps with your other racket. That said, we will see how far it goes. Good luck with it.

Yes you're being quite narrow minded for someone who is "pro diversity."

If you're talking about free arm and racket arm in the context of service, the free arm is the arm that is not used to serve the ball (for eg if I contact the ball with right hand, my left hand is automatically the free arm and vice versa).

I don't have a rating but I went for quite a few competitions already and have some quite good scalps in those. Ratings are not a huge thing here unlike the US, which I think is kinda an ego thing for certain Americans.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

One interpretation of "change rackets" might be that, if you hit the ball with one of those two rackets first, then you can't use the other. The second racket would be a change from the first racket. If there is racket 1 and racket 2, racket 2 is can be interpreted as a change from racket one; so it might not matter if you are trying to start with two rackets; the second racket may be interpreted as a change from the first since they are not the same racket.

But we will see how umpires at tournaments interpret things when you do it. And if you are having fun, then, that makes it worthwhile for you to explore playing like that regardless of whether it is against the rules.

A different skill would be to have ONE Racket, one side smooth, one side LP, loop on both wings with both hands and use the LP on both wings with both hands: one racket, two rubbers, swapping hands and twiddling.

So, if it turns out that umpires are consistent in deciding it is against the rules and you still want to do what you are doing, all you would need to do is get good at the skills of twiddling and swapping hands.

 

[NextLevel]

Yes you're being quite narrow minded for someone who is "pro diversity."

If you're talking about free arm and racket arm in the context of service, the free arm is the arm that is not used to serve the ball (for eg if I contact the ball with right hand, my left hand is automatically the free arm and vice versa).

I don't have a rating but I went for quite a few competitions already and have some quite good scalps in those. Ratings are not a huge thing here unlike the US, which I think is kinda an ego thing for certain Americans.

2.5. 6 The free hand is the hand not carrying the racket; the free arm is the arm ofthe free hand. 2.5. 7 A player strikes the ball if he or she touches it in play with his or her racket, held in the hand, or with his or her racket hand below the wrist.

You're a smart guy but if you want to define stuff, cite the laws/rules of table tennis.

I have discussed the Australian TT scene with Australian pro players. They think one of the reasons why Australia has issues with ratings (and this was a few years back) was that players could not police who reported what to ratings central. In general, having official events where there is pressure to perform under sanctioned rules is a good thing. People may differ on the value, but they thought what we had in the US was far superior to what obtained in Australia. The US may have many issues, even with it ratings system, but in terms of sanctioned events and putting people into appropriate categories, it does a good job, much better than many countries around the world.

 

[NextLevel]

Here are the laws if anyone is interested. They begin on page 38 in the pdf. One can decide after reading them whether I am being "narrow-minded" or just better informed.

https://documents.ittf.sport/sites/default/files/public/2023-06/2023_ITTF_Statutes_clean_version.pdf

 

[blahness]

2.5. 6 The free hand is the hand not carrying the racket; the free arm is the arm ofthe free hand. 2.5. 7 A player strikes the ball if he or she touches it in play with his or her racket, held in the hand, or with his or her racket hand below the wrist.

You're a smart guy but if you want to define stuff, cite the laws/rules of table tennis.

I have discussed the Australian TT scene with Australian pro players. They think one of the reasons why Australia has issues with ratings (and this was a few years back) was that players could not police who reported what to ratings central. In general, having official events where there is pressure to perform under sanctioned rules is a good thing. People may differ on the value, but they thought what we had in the US was far superior to what obtained in Australia. The US may have many issues, even with it ratings system, but in terms of sanctioned events and putting people into appropriate categories, it does a good job, much better than many countries around the world.

In the context of service, it is indeed "not carrying the racket" (the racket which will be used to serve the ball). In interpreting rules you have to look at the intention of the law not just mincing words. The intention of this clause is to prevent the free arm from hiding the serve, it has nothing to do with using two rackets or not.

I will beg to differ with the ratings obsessed culture in the US. We have a different value system here and in general we live happier lives because of that lol.

 

[NextLevel]

In the context of service, it is indeed "not carrying the racket" (the racket which will be used to serve the ball). In interpreting rules you have to look at the intention of the law not just mincing words. The intention of this clause is to prevent the free arm from hiding the serve, it has nothing to do with using two rackets or not.

I will beg to differ with the ratings obsessed culture in the US. We have a different value system here and in general we live happier lives because of that lol.

Okay. You are still not citing any laws, just making up your own interpretations. I will end it here, have fun with the new style. People can read the rules and decide why ITTF consistently refers to "the racket" and "the free hand" and whether the purpose was to allow for the possibility of a player using two rackets when looking at all the rules. If you want to continue this conversation in good faith, please discuss in the context of the rules.

As for the value system, I will smile and leave it at that.

 

[blahness]

Okay. You are still not citing any laws, just making up your own interpretations. I will end it here, have fun with the new style. People can read the rules and decide why ITTF consistently refers to "the racket" and "the free hand" and whether the purpose was to allow for the possibility of a player using two rackets when looking at all the rules. If you want to continue this conversation in good faith, please discuss in the context of the rules.

There's no consideration for this because there are no pro players who chose to play with this style obviously and ITTF is aimed at pro players.

I did a search of "free arm" in the Handbook. It is defined in 2.5.6 and only used in 2.6.5 for the sole purpose to disallow hiding the ball with the free arm for the service. Similarly, "free hand" is only used in a context to disallow putting spin on the ball with the fingers in 2.6.1, and to disallow touching the table in 2.10.1.11

Like what I said earlier, the spirit of the law is quite important when interpreting any laws.

 

[ben1229]

Don't be that serious, we are not pro, having fun with TT at our age is better.