Producing side underspin on the chiquita

[ttarc]

Timestamp 0:17

His partner serves, coach Meng flicks but his partner does not care about the incoming spin and the direction the ball travels and contacts the ball at the wrong point. That's it. Nothing special.
Timestamps 1:35, 3:56 or 5:12: same as before...

1. assume a pure topspin ball going from your right side to your left side.

2. what happens when contacting the ball at A, B, C, .., G or between A and E, E and B, F and D or B and D?

Now go back to timestamp 2:07 and it's easy to see why coach Meng prefers to return backspin serves with this type of flick and contacting the side of the ball or why the returns go to the net.

 

[ben1229]

Just table tennis things, no other stuffs.hope you keep the passion .

I don't knw why you dig politics into this but again my facts don't matter anway because UpSideDownCrrl will delete my posts as he has done in this thread even though at one point he himself was one of many who were agreeing with me. and other posters in this thread who agred with me have been threatened by NextLeval & bullied by Tony'sTableTennis & Blahness , who sall sem to have proteced status in this forum, despite clearly demonstarting near zero knowledge of basic spins in table tennis.

Anyway getting back to politics, I am not affiliated with any political party & I look at all sides of viewpoints as objectively as I can.
But Tony's ridicules certain political groups such as making up stuff liek "Make Table Tennis Great again".
But simple fact is that 10 or so million more people voted for Trump in 2020 than in 2016. And Biden narrowly leads Trump in polls. This may all change next year in either direction and we all remember what happens in 2016 when Hillary Clinton was leading. And everytime Trump gets indicted his numbers shoot up not down.
But my point is that when Tony'sTableTennis makes fun about such things as "Make Table Tennis Great again". he is making fun of about 44% of Amercian voters essentially saying 44% Americans are morons.
That is all I am saying.

 

[ttmonster]

I don't knw why you dig politics into this but again my facts don't matter anway because UpSideDownCrrl will delete my posts as he has done in this thread even though at one point he himself was one of many who were agreeing with me. and other posters in this thread who agred with me have been threatened by NextLeval & bullied by Tony'sTableTennis & Blahness , who sall sem to have proteced status in this forum, despite clearly demonstarting near zero knowledge of basic spins in table tennis.

Anyway getting back to politics, I am not affiliated with any political party & I look at all sides of viewpoints as objectively as I can.
But Tony's ridicules certain political groups such as making up stuff liek "Make Table Tennis Great again".
But simple fact is that 10 or so million more people voted for Trump in 2020 than in 2016. And Biden narrowly leads Trump in polls. This may all change next year in either direction and we all remember what happens in 2016 when Hillary Clinton was leading. And everytime Trump gets indicted his numbers shoot up not down.
But my point is that when Tony'sTableTennis makes fun about such things as "Make Table Tennis Great again". he is making fun of about 44% of Amercian voters essentially saying 44% Americans are morons.
That is all I am saying.

I did not imply any political affiliation or ridicule any political group , just pointed out the obvious behavioral similarities with another popular personality . The similarity in the egomania , the tendency to ridicule and attack personally anybody with opposite point of view, the inclination to oversimplify any argument and relate it to lowest common denominator to form group and stoke up victim mentality in everybody in that group , going off on long meandering soliloquies, the constant need for attention ... the parallels are endless ...and at this point pretty amusing … so carry on !

And to be honest .. once I started noticing the similarities in the personality ... I just could not stop laughing by myself ... it was too tempting to not share this with the group and let them partake in the hilarity ... my advance apologies to anybody offended ... politics is a totally different ballgame and there are larger socio economic forces that are responsible for their existence ... no way it has any relevance here ..

 

[ben1229]

Hello,
It was NOT me who injected politics. You should have quoted Tony'sTableTennis' post & had told him this by responding to him
Not me.
When you respond to my post then it looks like I was the one who injected politics into a tableetnnis forum.
I was just exposing his trying to ridicule 44% of Americans
I am not mad at you. Just saying

I meant ,hope you enjoy the sport and keep the passion. No other meanings.

 

[ander999]

No backspin
Just heavy side spin and some top spin

Incorrect. There is heavy backspin with some side spin, but 0 topspin on this ball. Really letting your table tennis knowledge shine there huh?

You may ask, how do I know? Because if you look really carefully and slow the footage down, he contacts the bottom side of the ball with the same angle you would essentially slice the ball and doesn't go up but instead sideways. Because he is contacting the bottom of the ball AND not going in an upwards motion (at least on the contact), underspin is made.

 

[NextLevel]

The original point being made is that one can misinterpret the video but that there is enough basis in the video for it being interpreted as delivering a ball that is not a topspin ball. The physics claiming that you can't deliver an underspin ball with that swing is just wrong. It was explained many times by myself and others that even if the ball is not technically underspin, or it is more sidespin, there are balls that are sidespin that have a topspin orientation, and there are sidespin balls with a backspin orientation. But the regular chiquita, as described by the coach, is not only used to return all kinds of balls, it creates a topspin ball as it aims to play over the ball. This technique is not designed to create a topspin ball. Someone else posted other videos of strokes with similar backspin like impacts and results, regardless of whether you think the ball is pure backspin or truly sidespin or some otherworldly phenomenon.

Claiming that blahness came up with the idea in his own head that this return produces a ball without a topspin orientation is just wrong. Whatever you think of the physics. Whatever you think of the intent of the video. I have explained the basis in the subtitles for this. The rest you can make up on your own.

 

[NextLevel]

BUt you are just plain refusing to accept the simple fact that back spin cannot be produced with this kind of racket motion & contact point on the ball

Because the incoming serve has backspin, you can keep the existing backspin on the ball. It is like coming up the front of the side of the ball, similar to a heavy backspin serve. It is not the same as playing over the top of the ball, similar to the loop vs backspin - this is more like Hou Yingchao chop return . Mima Ito does similar strawberry backspin flicks all the time. This is not rocket science.

 

[ander999]

I thought you would just dismiss my postes without explanations.
Very surpriseing you tried to explain.
But thankfully you demonstrate your cluelessness .
Let us assuem you are indeed right when you say the rackethead is moving sideways & not upwards.
So what you are saying that heavy back spin & not side spin is created by moving the rackethead sideways
Do you even understand what back spin (or side spin) is ? I doubt it

It is either that you didn't read the post to the full extent or you are trolling.

"There is heavy backspin with some side spin, but 0 topspin on this ball." Clearly says side spin is created.

You can watch the video for yourself and you will CLEARLY see he is moving sideways.

And YES, you can generate underspin by moving the rackethead sideways IF AND ONLY IF your racket angle guarantees that you are contacting some point of the lower hemisphere of the ball.

I don't know why I am wasting my time and effort on you to be honest because you will just try to dispute and continue acting like a moron.

 

[NextLevel]

Anders999,

Let's change topic a little, how do you use 48 degree sponge one forehand so well? Were you a Tenergy 05 user at any time?

 

[ttmonster]

That is all is what I am also asking.
All I ask is this
If the ball is contacted on the bottom left & back of the ball (& not on the front of teh ball as is the case of Schlager;s forehand backspin serve explanation) & if the rackethead is moving upwards at the moment of contact , how can it generate backspin ?
That is all is what I am asking.

James , he is not contacting the back, he is contacting the side under ... look at the tip of the paddle its actually pointing forward ... if you pay attention to the positioning of the forearm and the back of the wrist.. you can tell ... its exactly like a strawberry push .... . The whole point of the video is to demonstrate that this way of flicking is safer and more effective against heavy underspin short balls than trying to flick it top-side.

if you are honestly thinking the opposite I think you are getting fooled by the after motion ... the wrist action in backhand flicks are notoriously fast .. and thats why they were invented .. to be able to generate spin in s small space quickly ...

 

[NextLevel]

Ok let us assume this nonsensical claim is true. So what you are saying is that teh incoming backspin is sent back as backspin REALLY ? The backspin does not get reversed with this kind of motion ?


But I posted an attachment wheer the coach says he contacts the ball bottom back left not front.
You wan to try to confuse everyone teh nackhand chiquita where teh ball is contacted in teh back with a forehand back spin serve where teh ball is contacted in the front ?


I never said teh ball was played over teh top. I said is was played at bottom


That is sidespin + top spin but botjh very weak at her level with her social backhand rubber
Anyway no back spin

@UpSideDownCarl, I beg your forgiveness in advance.

1. No, the backspin does not get reversed. If someone played the same stroke with a hacking forehand, it would be obvious that the backspin will not get reversed as there is no attempt to come over the ball and produce topspin. This is more of a wipe across the bottom.

2. The trajectory of the swing is just as important as the contact point in determining the outgoing spin. I am trying to educate and illuminate here, not confuse. Contact point is important but a swing path is just as important, sometimes even more important.

3. To generate topspin on a ball you hit at the bottom with an inverted racket, you need to come over or swing with intent to come over the top of it.

4. Your opinion is understood, but blocking topspin balls into the net/table with open rackets is not what most people think about when they are looking at topspin balls,

 

[ander999]

Essential element of creating backspin are either
1. racket is moving forward under the ball but can be downwards (not upwards as is the case here) if ball is contacted on the back off the ball . Racket can also be moving left to right or right to left for sidespin
2. racket is moving upwards but contact is made in front as in a forehand backspin serve demonstarted by Schlager. But here the contact is made on the back bottom of the ball Racket can also be moving left to right or right to left for sidespin
Obviously you understand none of this but have to resort to name calling.

Motion is sideways not upwards.

Also contacting side under.

 

[ben1229]

Keep it up, fighting! Love all of your passion about table tennis!

 

[ttmonster]

No backspin
Just heavy side spin and some top spin

Did you even watch the video with subtitles enabled ...

they are clearly saying "nomuta" is different than "chiquita" in that its side under .. and he has spent over fifteen minutes explaining how he does that ... not to mention there is a huge red arrow pointing downward in the thumbnail .. lol !

 

[NextLevel]

Did you even watch the video with subtitles enabled ...

they are clearly saying "nomuta" is different than "chiquita" in that its side under .. and he has spent over fifteen minutes explaining how he does that ... not to mention there is a huge red arrow pointing downward in the thumbnail .. lol !

I like the fact that you are also seeing how all these people watch and explain these videos based on what they think is happening without even reading the subtitles and then accuse people who have read the subtitles of being bullies and unable to understand the views of others.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

but my facts don't matter anyway because UpSideDownCrrl will delete my posts

Just to be clear: your posts get deleted because you are insulting, attack people, and make any issue personal.

There are times when you post information that is good and useful and it is so often mixed with toxic, antisocial behavior that the information becomes much less the issue than the personal attacks.

 

[ander999]

Anders999,

Let's change topic a little, how do you use 48 degree sponge one forehand so well? Were you a Tenergy 05 user at any time?

Hey NextLevel,

You guessed right. This is my tenergy 05 alternative and may even claim it is better in all aspects. Although it is not 1:1 identical, 48 is slightly harder than T05. I would say T05 feels more like 46.5/47. I personally do not like hard rubbers as they don't suit my gamestyle. I need the rubber to have a lot of catapult but also hold the ball a little bit before shooting out.

Feel free to ask if you have more questions

 

[NextLevel]

Hey NextLevel,

You guessed right. This is my tenergy 05 alternative and may even claim it is better in all aspects. Although it is not 1:1 identical, 48 is slightly harder than T05. I would say T05 feels more like 46.5/47. I personally do not like hard rubbers as they don't suit my gamestyle. I need the rubber to have a lot of catapult but also hold the ball a little bit before shooting out.

Feel free to ask if you have more questions

Interesting - what is the durability of Superselect 48 like? I haven't tried new rubber in like forever, but maybe if something is better than T05 in almost every respect, I need to give it a seat at the table somehow... I know you are speaking subjectively but can't disregard the opinion of good players lol.

 

[ttmonster]

I like the fact that you are also seeing how all these people watch and explain these videos based on what they think is happening without even reading the subtitles and then accuse people who have read the subtitles of being bullies and unable to understand the views of others.

I definitely noticed it NL , its just that with this video it was too obvious .. there is literally no room for misinterpretation or misunderstanding

 

[NextLevel]

I definitely noticed it NL , its just that with this video it was too obvious .. there is literally no room for misinterpretation or misunderstanding

Yes, the video you pointed out, which ShoutGuy provided, was extremely explicit about what was going on with no doublespeak. It is the kind of thing that shows you how intentional the mendacity is, It goes into all the nuances. It takes a special level of trolling to ignore the video's existence and details.