Producing side underspin on the chiquita

[SofaChamp]

Well, have to agree. This is an easy stroke. I've done it so many times. It definitely a topspin return.

No, that argument doesn't follow. In the video, the players is coming up and forward on the front of the ball and this generates backspin. Your shots will have contacted a different part of the ball than in the video.

 

[Lazer]

Just out of interest, can you explain what happens to the spin of the ball when a straight backspin serve is returned with a normal (backspin) push?

The return will attempt to stop the spin and reverse it. Normally this is successful and an under spin will be returned.

You may have heard “reversing the spin” when talking about lifting an under spin ball with a loop. From a technical point of view this is wrong. In that case the spin is not reversed.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Kopp]

No, that argument doesn't follow. In the video, the players is coming up and forward on the front of the ball and this generates backspin. Your shots will have contacted a different part of the ball than in the video.

I'm not sure how to explain, this might come off as a bit sloppy. Imagine hitting the same spot as he did (3–4 o'clock) with long pips, the ball is going back with topspin, right? He just replaced the pimples ‘effect’ with brushing/lifting. All he did was that, IMHO.

 

[Lazer]

I'm not sure how to explain, this might come off as a bit sloppy. Imagine hitting the same spot as he did (3–4 o'clock) with long pips, the ball is going back with topspin, right? He just replaced the pimples ‘effect’ with brushing/lifting. All he did was that, IMHO.

The thing with long pimples is that they don’t have much grip so you return much of the spin you got from the other side. Underspin returned will be topspin and topspin returned will be underspin.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Oh well
haha

If you believe it is possible, go and practice it
if you don't think it is possible, then go learn some other new skill

10 years old skillset and people are still debating

(correction) in 2012, a very high profile coach from China told me (when I ask him what new technique are there now) and he explain to me of bh flick generating underspin.
If you make sure you only brush the lower part of the ball (below the mid point of the ball) and direction towards the lowest point of the ball, it is an underspin action.

Think pendulum underspin serve contact point on the ball

Now, i'm not here to debate. But to tell you, it is possible.
Not going to try and explain the above again.
The coach who taught me this, is very very high profile.

Chinese Super League coach:

 

[NextLevel]

Oh well
haha

If you believe it is possible, go and practice it
if you don't think it is possible, then go learn some other new skill

10 years old skillset and people are still debating

(correction) in 2012, a very high profile coach from China told me (when I ask him what new technique are there now) and he explain to me of bh flick generating underspin.
If you make sure you only brush the lower part of the ball (below the mid point of the ball) and direction towards the lowest point of the ball, it is an underspin action.

Think pendulum underspin serve contact point on the ball

Now, i'm not here to debate. But to tell you, it is possible.
Not going to try and explain the above again.
The coach who taught me this, is very very high profile.

Chinese Super League coach:

Yeah, when these debates leave the land where we improve our table tennis and enter the land of semantics, it gets really frustrating. All these things are just names for techniques to hit the ball and win points. Does a ball literally have sidespin and backspin and sidespin and topspin? Doesn't the ball just spin in one direction relative to where it is moving? Are vectors real or conceptual constructs?

Clever dick-hair splitting can be very unproductive when divorced from the effects on winning points or how to return balls.

 

[ttmonster]

so if I understand correctly ... not only is Coach Meng wrong ... inspite of the video repeatedly showing that there is heavy underspin in the chiquita .. even Mr. Werner Schlager , the last non-Chinese world champion has very little knowledge of table tennis compared to the some of the self proclaimed experts here ...

oh and btw .. hope some of you all will enjoy the following video .. a story often told to us as kids

 

[Lazer]

so if I understand correctly ... not only is Coach Meng wrong ... inspite of the video repeatedly showing that there is heavy underspin in the chiquita .. even Mr. Werner Schlager , the last non-Chinese world champion has very little knowledge of table tennis compared to the some of the self proclaimed experts here ...

oh and btw .. hope some of you all will enjoy the following video .. a story often told to us as kids

As a comment to the original post,
James argument was about hitting the ball in the southern hemisphere and moving the racket upwards…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[ttmonster]

As a comment to the original post,
James argument was about hitting the ball in the southern hemisphere and moving the racket upwards…

Cheers
L-zr

Its okay to be wrong .. we all make mistakes .. its just tragedy with some comedy mixed when people double down on their mistakes even when others are showing them clear evidence of why and where they are wrong . .

 

[Lazer]

Its okay to be wrong .. we all make mistakes .. its just tragedy with some comedy mixed when people double down on their mistakes even when others are showing them clear evidence of why and where they are wrong . .

What I meant is that your comment has nothing to do with this discussion. Schlage’s demonstration is about something else.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[ttmonster]

What I meant is that your comment has nothing to do with this discussion. Schlage’s demonstration is about something else.

Cheers
L-zr

no it is not !

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

moving over to elementary school age table tennis skillset.

serve tomahawk underspin serve.
contact middle to low part and move forward for side-under contact.

same contact point

 

[ttmonster]

I agree . Blahness & Tony'sTableTennis wll NEVER admit they made a mistake or apologize. It does not matter how wrong they are but they have to troll and confuse the issue as is the case here just to discredit teh person they dislike with whatever means necessary.

… and this is the well

 

[Kopp]

Sidespin, yes. Side + top, definitely. Side + down, no (it could be, if he brushes the bottom + forward motion but it's difficult, IMO). Down, no way!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

no it is not !

I think the biggest issue here from Lazer earlier statement is he says if server serves underspin and if returned with side spin, the ball will go back underspin.

To me, the ball hitting the net will be the first result
for it to go over the net, the ball will not be underspin,
Only underspin contact can send the ball back underspin.

if side under, it will go back underspin
if side top, the ball will not go back underspin

Schlagers example is to show different places of contact results in different spin. He showed but didn't talk about different contact point on the blade too. He only showed angle of contact.

Schlager's top spin serve with underspin action is really even older school. The theory there is, if you don't hit underspin, it will be top spin and then using angle and contact point of ball/blade.
Some times these technical explanation is too deep for people who are stuck with 40 year old debate on long pips.

I thought I was going into a 10 year old debate. Now it feels like 30 year old debate to explain Schlager lol
Some times it is very tiring talking to people on TTD, especially when you not sure if troll is sincere or just back to trolling

 

[ttmonster]

I think the biggest issue here from Lazer earlier statement is he says if server serves underspin and if returned with side spin, the ball will go back underspin.

To me, the ball hitting the net will be the first result
for it to go over the net, the ball will not be underspin,
Only underspin contact can send the ball back underspin.

if side under, it will go back underspin
if side top, the ball will not go back underspin

Schlagers example is to show different places of contact results in different spin. He showed but didn't talk about different contact point on the blade too. He only showed angle of contact.

Schlager's top spin serve with underspin action is really even older school. The theory there is, if you don't hit underspin, it will be top spin and then using angle and contact point of ball/blade.
Some times these technical explanation is too deep for people who are stuck with 40 year old debate on long pips.

I thought I was going into a 10 year old debate. Now it feels like 30 year old debate to explain Schlager lol
Some times it is very tiring talking to people on TTD, especially when you not sure if troll is sincere or just back to trolling

IMO … all evidence points to a sincere troll … but in this case there is an inordinate amount of ego and resulting inability to understand anything from a perspective that is not their own . So it’s pointless to even try Tony … learn from the other frog and let’s get the heck out of this well once we have made the point … the only reason i feel compelled to comment sometimes is because somebody new to the sport and easily influenced might read these posts and get a completely wrong concept in their head … but i guess.. it’s on them … they should be able to look at the evidence comprehensively and figure it out themselves …

 

[ttmonster]

Werner Schlager is talking about contacting towards the front of the bal (as he clearly says) l & pulling up your racket in a forehand serve (I agree it creates backspin)
But in coach Mengs video , he is contacting on the back of the ball & pulling racket upwards. in a backhand chiquita
How the hell are these two the same. LOL

He is not … if you look at the video closely his wrist is not as cocked when producing the underspin … he is actually more or less using the same motion and contact as schlager’s .. the principle is the same … you will know it when you are able to do it …Most of us who are disagreeing with you have done it in practice .. and that why we find it something obvious that you are arguing against
....and with this .. I am out of here !

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

He is not … if you look at the video closely his wrist is not as cocked when producing the underspin … he is actually more or less using the same motion and contact as schlage’s .. the principle is the same … you will know it when you are able to do it …

Get him to just check Matt's serve videos. Will be clueless on what is top and what is under.
Fake action/ contact point, understanding spin

table tennis is just too technical.
30 years ago, it wasn't so complicated.

You need to check out the Forehand (rubber) reverse backhand flick.
lol

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

IMO … all evidence points to a sincere troll … but in this case there is an inordinate amount of ego and resulting inability to understand anything from a perspective that is not their own . So it’s pointless to even try Tony …

yeah, I gather that.
The day he told me that pro/semi pro training centers need to have surrounds covering every table, so players don't stand end on standing on balls and get injured from it... I was like, okay, lol

Then I see on his "private" forum, he shows amateur places use cardboard paper to surround off and that should be better than how 99.9% of the world elite trains

The only injury I see is the ball gong RIP.

I don't think it is ego, it is just professional troll. He knows what he is doing and he probably has some pleasure doing what he is doing.

 

[Lazer]

I think the biggest issue here from Lazer earlier statement is he says if server serves underspin and if returned with side spin, the ball will go back underspin.

Yes that’s a brain fart from my side but another post from me says differently.

The point here is:
1. By hitting the ball pretty much anywhere with an upwards moment it’s impossible to induce under spin.
2. Then in the original post shows the player doing an upward motion.

Cheers
L-zr