table tennis tips "Increase Spin in table tennis by Chinese coaching"

[Baal]

Here is how these things go:



And yet, here is a quote from 9:07 in the video taken word for word just how it is spelled in the subtitle:

"It's not new to many Chinese coaches. However, not many western coach or players know the truth behind it."

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

First time I encountered this guy's videos, some months ago at MyTT, I noticed that. This "mystique of the Orient" thing seems to be one of his favorite themes, the idea that he has some secret insight into what Chinese coaches say, and that western coaching cannot manage to convey even the most basic ideas (why, because he is Vietnamese (?), that makes no sense at all). And this was followed by banal things that I have heard from about every coach "here in the west", among whom are several who are not Chinese (but not one Vietnamese, in spite of the fact that more than 200,000 Vietnamese people live in my city, including many Hua people originally from the Cholon neighborhood of Saigon).

So I decided that since I am getting coaching from some really good Chinese guys, I would spend my time on Youtube listening and watching jazz, which works better to take my mind off the direction my country is headed.


Still, if there is something in the vids that help people, that is not a bad thing.

One thing that I find really interesting from an internet phenomenon point of view is the things that induce flame wars on TT forums. I have been watching these things for 10 years. MyTT is (or used to be) the place where things would be more likely to blow up, but this guy's videos there garnered hardly a peep. Is it just random? I think partly. Sometimes it takes just one person to notice something, and then we're off to the races. Of course the PNachtways and Sebas-Aguirres of the world manage to blow up all forums and have completed the grand slam of getting banned repeatedly from all known English language TT forums.

 

[NextLevel]

First time I encountered this guy's videos, some months ago at MyTT, I noticed that. This "mystique of the Orient" thing seems to be one of his favorite themes, the idea that he has some secret insight into what Chinese coaches say, and that western coaching cannot manage to convey even the most basic ideas (why, because he is Vietnamese (?), that makes no sense at all). And this was followed by banal things that I have heard from about every coach "here in the west", among whom are several who are not Chinese (but not one Vietnamese, in spite of the fact that more than 200,000 Vietnamese people live in my city, including many Hua people originally from the Cholon neighborhood of Saigon).

So I decided that since I am getting coaching from some really good Chinese guys, I would spend my time on Youtube listening and watching jazz, which works better to take my mind off the direction my country is headed.


Still, if there is something in the vids that help people, that is not a bad thing.

One thing that I find really interesting from an internet phenomenon point of view is the things that induce flame wars on TT forums. I have been watching these things for 10 years. MyTT is (or used to be) the place where things would be more likely to blow up, but this guy's videos there garnered hardly a peep. Is it just random? I think partly. Sometimes it takes just one person to notice something, and then we're off to the races. Of course the PNachtways and Sebas-Aguirres of the world manage to blow up all forums and have completed the grand slam of getting banned repeatedly from all known English language TT forums.

That's a common impression but he is going around discrediting a lot of people without providing any insight into his experience and expertise. As long as people realize that

1) there is a risk to listening to this stuff and
2) there are more credible sources for this information with better context, both Chinese and non-Chinese

all is well.

The funny thing is that while there is some general agreement that he is directing his comments at "beginners", a lot of what he is saying is mostly going to help people well beyond the beginner stage, especially those who hang around good players, as that is the level at which one can give context to what he is saying.

 

[Suga D]

His advices are good for beginners, that's all there is too it, if he cant apply them himself and simply copied other coaches/articles does not affect the utility of his videos. For all I know he maybe doing it for clickbaiting, his titles are misleading sometimes, this does not mean his analysis is not worthy. on the contrary

Very well spoken. NOTHING to add to that.

 

[NextLevel]

Glad to hear that his videos helped you. But you also need to understand that while his videos might have helped YOU, the advice that he is presenting can be dangerous for lower level players.

His advices are good for beginners, that's all there is too it, if he cant apply them himself and simply copied other coaches/articles does not affect the utility of his videos. For all I know he maybe doing it for clickbaiting, his titles are misleading sometimes, this does not mean his analysis is not worthy. on the contrary

Very well spoken. NOTHING to add to that.

A lot of stuff in EmRatThich's videos is not really for BEGINNERS. The Chinese have a saying whose main point is that the use of the fingers in TT is the most advanced level of table tennis. I guess that they must have meant is that the most advanced level of table tennis is supposed to be for beginners! In any case, the main point here is that in everything, context matters. In any case, it would help to be more specific on who his videos are really directed at. Though that could limit the audience...

 

[Musaab]

@EmRatThich , if you are reading this, just search the forum and youtube for match/training videos of those who criticize you the most. You would see then nothing here should affect you or how you should make your videos etc .. as simple as that

 

[NextLevel]

@EmRatThich , if you are reading this, just search the forum and youtube for match/training videos of those who criticize you the most. You would see then nothing here should affect you or how you should make your videos etc .. as simple as that

Obviously. I don't make videos for beginners or lie about my level of play.

 

[Persistence TT]

A lot of stuff in EmRatThich's videos is not really for BEGINNERS. The Chinese have a saying whose main point is that the use of the fingers in TT is the most advanced level of table tennis. I guess that they must have meant is that the most advanced level of table tennis is supposed to be for beginners! In any case, the main point here is that in everything, context matters. In any case, it would help to be more specific on who his videos are really directed at. Though that could limit the audience...

I agree with your thought process and the irony towards emrat, but to be exact I think the chinese and every good coach stresses the importance of grip (and how the fingers apply pressure) and feel the ball with your fingers is very important from day 1, teaching a player who has never played before not even pros. I saw ML and WH tutorial videos and they both speak firstly about the grip/finger pressure and then go to evaluate other aspects of a stroke, but they are pros of pros.

Do you mind pasting that chinese quote? I believe that training an amateur youngster or a 50 old player you still have to teach him about grips and stuff although he may not become a pro one day.

Besides beginner is a vague term, so emrat is just using these situations for clickbait. I understand why you and carl want to "expose" him but after a certain point I think u work in his favor lol

People who chose to learn through clickbait, dont deserve to learn the truth about TT techniques anyway, cause they believe stereotypes like "oh Im gonna learn some chinese secrets and tactics, this way I will definitely become a better player". Wrong stupid & pointless approach if you ask me , but hey who are we to judge? You cant change a narrow minded person or give him other perspectives to see the truth about any topic if they believe so hard in the chinese god technique and "secrets"

 

[Persistence TT]

First time I encountered this guy's videos, some months ago at MyTT, I noticed that. This "mystique of the Orient" thing seems to be one of his favorite themes, the idea that he has some secret insight into what Chinese coaches say, and that western coaching cannot manage to convey even the most basic ideas (why, because he is Vietnamese (?), that makes no sense at all). And this was followed by banal things that I have heard from about every coach "here in the west", among whom are several who are not Chinese (but not one Vietnamese, in spite of the fact that more than 200,000 Vietnamese people live in my city, including many Hua people originally from the Cholon neighborhood of Saigon).

So I decided that since I am getting coaching from some really good Chinese guys, I would spend my time on Youtube listening and watching jazz, which works better to take my mind off the direction my country is headed.


Still, if there is something in the vids that help people, that is not a bad thing.

One thing that I find really interesting from an internet phenomenon point of view is the things that induce flame wars on TT forums. I have been watching these things for 10 years. MyTT is (or used to be) the place where things would be more likely to blow up, but this guy's videos there garnered hardly a peep. Is it just random? I think partly. Sometimes it takes just one person to notice something, and then we're off to the races. Of course the PNachtways and Sebas-Aguirres of the world manage to blow up all forums and have completed the grand slam of getting banned repeatedly from all known English language TT forums.

The
peanut guy was great though I really miss him sometimes

 

[pgpg]

I agree with your thought process and the irony towards emrat, but to be exact I think the chinese and every good coach stresses the importance of grip (and how the fingers apply pressure) and feel the ball with your fingers is very important from day 1, teaching a player who has never played before not even pros. I saw ML and WH tutorial videos and they both speak firstly about the grip/finger pressure and then go to evaluate other aspects of a stroke, but they are pros of pros.

Do you mind pasting that chinese quote? I believe that training an amateur youngster or a 50 old player you still have to teach him about grips and stuff although he may not become a pro one day.

Besides beginner is a vague term, so emrat is just using these situations for clickbait. I understand why you and carl want to "expose" him but after a certain point I think u work in his favor lol

People who chose to learn through clickbait, dont deserve to learn the truth about TT techniques anyway, cause they believe stereotypes like "oh Im gonna learn some chinese secrets and tactics, this way I will definitely become a better player". Wrong stupid & pointless approach if you ask me , but hey who are we to judge? You cant change a narrow minded person or give him other perspectives to see the truth about any topic if they believe so hard in the chinese god technique and "secrets"

“The student who uses the arm to play is an elementary student; the one who uses the elbow is a middle school student; the one who uses the forearm to play is a college student; the one who uses the wrist to play is a postgraduate. Finally, the one who uses the fingers to play is a doctorate.”

You can find 3-part article linked from the following story about Jinxin Wang (at least that's where I saw it last):

http://butterflyonline.com/comprehensive-education-jinxin-wang-provides-food-thought/

P.S. I'm a middle-school student in this classification . Which is another way of saying that I did not understand most of advice in these articles. Yet.

 

[Suga D]

@EmRatThich , if you are reading this, just search the forum and youtube for match/training videos of those who criticize you the most. You would see then nothing here should affect you or how you should make your videos etc .. as simple as that

Obviously. I don't make videos for beginners or lie about my level of play.

and you still keeping on. *SMDH*
What you really refuse to understand is that people won´t give you more credit just ´cause you discredit other people´s work. That just makes you look like your jelly at his clix and like some str8 up playa hating from the start!

 

[Persistence TT]

“The student who uses the arm to play is an elementary student; the one who uses the elbow is a middle school student; the one who uses the forearm to play is a college student; the one who uses the wrist to play is a postgraduate. Finally, the one who uses the fingers to play is a doctorate.”

You can find 3-part article linked from the following story about Jinxin Wang (at least that's where I saw it last):

http://butterflyonline.com/comprehensive-education-jinxin-wang-provides-food-thought/

P.S. I'm a middle-school student in this classification . Which is another way of saying that I did not understand most of advice in these articles. Yet.

Thanks a lot !! That is gold I've always wanted to "study" info like this

 

[NextLevel]

I agree with your thought process and the irony towards emrat, but to be exact I think the chinese and every good coach stresses the importance of grip (and how the fingers apply pressure) and feel the ball with your fingers is very important from day 1, teaching a player who has never played before not even pros. I saw ML and WH tutorial videos and they both speak firstly about the grip/finger pressure and then go to evaluate other aspects of a stroke, but they are pros of pros.

Do you mind pasting that chinese quote? I believe that training an amateur youngster or a 50 old player you still have to teach him about grips and stuff although he may not become a pro one day.

Besides beginner is a vague term, so emrat is just using these situations for clickbait. I understand why you and carl want to "expose" him but after a certain point I think u work in his favor lol

People who chose to learn through clickbait, dont deserve to learn the truth about TT techniques anyway, cause they believe stereotypes like "oh Im gonna learn some chinese secrets and tactics, this way I will definitely become a better player". Wrong stupid & pointless approach if you ask me , but hey who are we to judge? You cant change a narrow minded person or give him other perspectives to see the truth about any topic if they believe so hard in the chinese god technique and "secrets"

Will be hard to find the quote but here is one version:[FONT=open_sansbold]
[/FONT]
http://butterflyonline.com/importance-fingers-wrist-table-tennis/

Here is a fomer US National team member on the subject:

http://butterflyonline.com/using-your-fingers-effectively/

BTW, I have no doubt that some of this can help the right player. It can also hurt the wrong player. Grip basics are for everyone, but a lot of stuff being expressed is not grip basics.

You can continue to sit on both sides of the fence on this, but for me, I am okay with him posting, but I have to put out some warnings because I know what it was like to try stuff like this and mess up my TT. And I had a coach.

 

[Persistence TT]

Will be hard to find the quote but here is one version:[FONT=open_sansbold]
[/FONT]
http://butterflyonline.com/importance-fingers-wrist-table-tennis/

Here is a fomer US National team member on the subject:

http://butterflyonline.com/using-your-fingers-effectively/

BTW, I have no doubt that some of this can help the right player. It can also hurt the wrong player. Grip basics are for everyone, but a lot of stuff being expressed is not grip basics.

You can continue to sit on both sides of the fence on this, but for me, I am okay with him posting, but I have to put out some warnings because I know what it was like to try stuff like this and mess up my TT. And I had a coach.

Yes thats why I understand why you and carl are "after" him in the first place, I also happen to be a victim of poor internet advice . Im not sitting in both sides, clickbaiting is pathetic, but what Im saying is that we cant prevent guys like emrat from luring enthusiastic "newbies" to the game for their own personal profit. What we can do is to promote EVEN BETTER channels and content instead.

If it was in my power/authority I would ban users who use this forum only for their personal purposes and not offering back to the "community" that exists here. Emrat is not offering something new, he justs rephrased many things that some of us already know as "secrets"

In simple words its ok for everyone, to promote their channel but to put it simple, If I was a mod I would force people not to put misleading titles on their topics/videos, not because I like being a dictator, but because it is unfair to all the other users for the reasons you and carl explained

Thanks for the links again

 

[NextLevel]

and you still keeping on. *SMDH*
What you really refuse to understand is that people won´t give you more credit just ´cause you discredit other people´s work. That just makes you look like your jelly at his clix and like some str8 up playa hating from the start!

Acknowledged.

 

[Suga D]

Acknowledged.

Gr8
[Emoji106]

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

table tennis tips "Increase Spin in table tennis by Chinese coaching"

Okay, so, what I see here now seems much more useful and productive in spite of a few comments I feel may be off in tone or subject.

As far as why Musaab continues to find the need and desire to attack NextLevel for his level of play, I will not venture to guess.

But I don't find it relevant to the question of EmRatThich's credentials, whether he plays table tennis at all, whether he actually coaches, or simply presents content for his YouTube channel with information taken from various sources without crediting his sources.

The reason why I question EmRatThich has entirely to do with his purposefully hiding his credentials and not crediting any of his sources. The actual information on TT is generally sound, but, as has been said, needs to be put into context.

Why EmRat chose to lie when saying he did not say this information is not available causes me more reason to question his identity:

EmRat: "You are right that these principles are not news for the pro players. I didn't say it is new in my tutorial video."

And yet, here is a quote from 9:07 in the video taken word for word just how it is spelled in the subtitle:

EmRat: "It's not new to many Chinese coaches. However, not many western coach or players know the truth behind it."

If someone can give a decent answer to why EmRat should be able to present his information on TTDaily without us knowing anything about him or his sources, I am happy to hear a well reasoned discussion on it. As of yet I have not really heard that.

If a professor wrote a thesis on a subject and someone took the information and posted it anonymously presenting it as their own, we would call that plagiarism and we understand why that is a dangerous thing. When a person on the internet hides behind a false identity, we understand that it can cause some real problems. Why and how is this different?





Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[NextLevel]

Carl,

I have decided to give up and join SugaD and the other Gans of EmRatThich. You have taught us enough. We get it.

If you don't get it by now, you will never never never ever get it... oooooooo....

Well you never gonna get it...
Not this time...
The pooiint... you never gonna get it...
Oohhhh...

 

[Brs]

I don't think you can call a spectacularly slow and boring 14-minute video clickbait. More like click repellant.

To me it seems unfair to demand a bio from somebody just because they post a goofy video. If you banned all the people who really don't know as much as they think they know about pingpong there'd be no one left here.

I have no opinion on the fingers thing, it's meaningless to me. I'm not a good player. But the whole idea of "secrets" is ridiculous. CNT players don't have secrets - they have trained relentlessly for their whole lives at top quality, and are the survivors of a much larger cohort that fell out along the way. We haven't. It's not a secret.

 

[NextLevel]

I don't think you can call a spectacularly slow and boring 14-minute video clickbait. More like click repellant.

To me it seems unfair to demand a bio from somebody just because they post a goofy video. If you banned all the people who really don't know as much as they think they know about pingpong there'd be no one left here.

I have no opinion on the fingers thing, it's meaningless to me. I'm not a good player. But the whole idea of "secrets" is ridiculous. CNT players don't have secrets - they have trained relentlessly for their whole lives at top quality, and are the survivors of a much larger cohort that fell out along the way. We haven't. It's not a secret.

Booooo..... Boooooo......

Then again, someone I remember with a handle like yours got injured trying to copy the playing style of a pro player...

 

[Persistence TT]

I don't think you can call a spectacularly slow and boring 14-minute video clickbait. More like click repellant.

To me it seems unfair to demand a bio from somebody just because they post a goofy video. If you banned all the people who really don't know as much as they think they know about pingpong there'd be no one left here.

I have no opinion on the fingers thing, it's meaningless to me. I'm not a good player. But the whole idea of "secrets" is ridiculous. CNT players don't have secrets - they have trained relentlessly for their whole lives at top quality, and are the survivors of a much larger cohort that fell out along the way. We haven't. It's not a secret.

You

misinterpreted my post. Not all people post videos claiming that they have discovered the "truth" or revealed "secrets" like emrat did.Not all people think they know more than they actually do, its a huge mistakes to equalize everyone's knowledge or importance in here as being the same.

I talked about banning people who try to get advantage out of a good situation that is going on here for their own personal gain and moreover without giving anything special BACK to the users.

If some users are inexperienced,misguided, too enthusiastic when it comes to commercials of XYZ rubber and want to improve or (forgive me for my language, I dont want to write a long post explaining levels of intelligence in certain aspects of the game) "too stupid" to realize that some channels have content which is presented to be the "super duper next best thing in TT" whereas in fact its not anything special,

users (like tony,carl next level, matt hetherington,baal) who actually know what is going on certain aspects of the game, have the right to provide their own side of the story, just as guys like emrat provides his side of the story.

Banning guys like emrat, dont have anything personal against the guy and I said it before some of his info is indeed usefull, is my personal way of running things and I just expressed it. Besides, one can adjust simply adjust himself, create a new account with another name and simply stop bullshitting people providing the same content

If the forum was mine and I really wanted to help people to improve then I would keep scammmers away and trust me there have been lots of them both here and in other forums and Im personally disgusted.

Im not saying carl or dan or nextlevel are doing things wrong or that my solution and approach is the objectively the best , I just expressed how I would deal with the situation

I will just redirect you to what Carl said in his previous post

If a professor wrote a thesis on a subject and someone took the information and posted it anonymously presenting it as their own, we would call that plagiarism and we understand why that is a dangerous thing. When a person on the internet hides behind a false identity, we understand that it can cause some real problems. Why and how is this different?