Usage of Finger by a memebr on MyTT Forum

[Der_Echte]

There is a poster who make an attempt to discuss how the fingers are used to stabilize and provide force.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=79865&PN=1#990620

I think he brought up some good items worth investigating.

Another aspect to discuss would be how they are used in "Touch" to slow down the ball and kill spin.

Pls discuss insights, I believe it is a worthy topic that can cause one some deep thought about how we individually use them.

 

[Suga D]

@UpsidedownCarl: where is that Super-Like button again? Can't find it at the moment


Thanks a ton @Der_Echte

Great topic.

I'm quite sure not many people have heard of this.

This technique is also well known by Timo Boll and Helmut Hampl, the Coach that made him big.

This actually came up last january but somehow got burried fast.

I think Carl was the only one who acknowledged the post to that time.
Actually all i did was repost and quote from a thread that was back from 2016. If i find it, i'll post the link here.

[EDIT: link corrected now]

Heck, you've even made me log on at mytt after a year or so. Think i'll copy and paste my post also on mytt. Will be my very first post there.

But you're 100% spot on. This topic definitely deserves a thread of its own.

So here we go:

Timo Boll keeps his forefinger really high when he returns serve and then slides it back down...

IIRC we´ve been talking about this a while ago on this thread here.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/...imo-Boll-a-question-on-the-TTD-podcast!/page2

Actually it´s a technique his coach Helmut Hampl has taught him...

When Timo pushes and returns serve, his forefinger seems higher up the blade than most other players. Has he always done that and is their an advantage to it and does he recommend that?

Also, what is the most common mistake he sees in serious amateur players? What is the best way to improve without training 6 hours per day?

This an invention of the Trainer Helmut Hampl called "Druckpunkttechnik" (tl: pressure point technique).
It is a controversial technique even in DTTB. Patrik Franziska uses it too.

@MaLongPower: Good One.
This is really interesting. I also hope Timo can elaborate on this.
I know a few players who have practiced under Helmut Hampl, like Christian Dreher, Jochen Kaiser, Philip Butterfass, Tobi Beck, Thomas Keinath or Arash Momeni, but none of them ever mentioned that term in front of me. Sounds like a well kept secret.
I know the term 'Druckpunkttechnik' from Martial Arts and others, though. First time I hear this related to tabletennis.

Well anyway, here are my questions:

Firstly i'd like to ask Timo what he thinks would be necessary to uplift the image of tabletennis in europe away from a playground activity more to a professional sport.

2nd) since his Game is based so much on rotation, shouldn't on major events the best P-Balls available be used instead the ones from the company that sponsors/pays most?

Last question: if the top players were forced to use non boosted standard equipment does he think the world Ranking list would look different?

All the best, strength and health to him for the Olympic Games and the Future.
Thanks a lot for bringing us so many beautiful moments in tabletennis.

This an invention of the Trainer Helmut Hampl called "Druckpunkttechnik" (tl: pressure point technique).
It is a controversial technique even in DTTB. Patrik Franziska uses it too.

You can see the use clearly when Timo is receiving with the forehand. The indix finger is pointing upwards and is planted in the middle of the backhandrubber. This allows much more control while flicking and pushing. The downside is you need to adjust the grip afterwards.The grip in generel needs to be really lose and relaxed(racket pointing upwards in the starting position). Timo also has a special made thicker straight handle on his ALC which makes adjusting eazier.

Here is the reference form the book:Timo Boll My China
View attachment 9523

@Der_Echte: Thanks again
[Emoji2]

 

[Der_Echte]

Comments are slow, maybe shoulda whispered the data to the Goon Squad.

 

[ttmonster]

I saw the thread when you created, at first I thought it was a joke because of the way the title is "Usage of finger by a member" , I thought something similar to what Baal had wrote about in the recent past that somebody had done something wrong ... jokes aside when I read your post I wanted to read the mytt post carefully before commenting .. I think in the thread Suga D mentioned we had discussed about the finger technique that Timo Boll uses and its origin.

There was also a post in Butterfly blogs or may be USATT ... recently by one of the chinese coaches from ICC on this , I can't find the article now.

Having said that even though his translation/ post talks about the importance of using fingers it does not tell much on how or what can improve which aspect of the game very clearly ... or may be I missed something ...

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

This is a good subject worth having. But it needs detailed research and people who know what they are talking about. Not many who can do both.

So, perhaps we need NextLevel on this thread.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[QWERTY Spin]

While in his book "My China" the topic of finger usage is discussed rather shortly in the book of Bernd-Ulrich Groß: "Tischtennis mit Timo Boll: Wie er spielt, trainiert und gewinnt" (translated: Tabletennis with Timo Boll: How he plays, trains and wins) Timo boll elaborates on this topic. If I recall correctly he says that he adjust his finger and bat for almost every stroke he makes.

for example:
when he serves underspin his index finger moves to the middle of his bat. And when he serves sidespin the index fingers is on the side of his bat.
its the same for receiving underspin so when pushing he moves the index finger up to the middle of the bat. when flipping its on the side.

He calls his index finger his "gefühlsfinger" (feeling finger).

The book is a good read with commentary of timo boll. its nothing revolutionary new in but i liked in nevertheless.
there are also pictures provided where you can see the index finger position.
Im not sure if its available in english.

So to answer the question of Baal which was quoted: timo says u have to try and see for yourself what helps you and improve it. nobody has to do it like him.

 

[Suga D]

While in his book "My China" the topic of finger usage is discussed rather shortly in the book of Bernd-Ulrich Groß: "Tischtennis mit Timo Boll: Wie er spielt, trainiert und gewinnt" (translated: Tabletennis with Timo Boll: How he plays, trains and wins) Timo boll elaborates on this topic. If I recall correctly he says that he adjust his finger and bat for almost every stroke he makes.

for example:
when he serves underspin his index finger moves to the middle of his bat. And when he serves sidespin the index fingers is on the side of his bat.
its the same for receiving underspin so when pushing he moves the index finger up to the middle of the bat. when flipping its on the side.

He calls his index finger his "gefühlsfinger" (feeling finger).

The book is a good read with commentary of timo boll. its nothing revolutionary new in but i liked in nevertheless.
there are also pictures provided where you can see the index finger position.
Im not sure if its available in english.

So to answer the question of Baal which was quoted: timo says u have to try and see for yourself what helps you and improve it. nobody has to do it like him.

Very nice. Do you know if this book is still available? Sounds like an interesting read.

BTW: had to correct my first post and add in the proper link.
https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/...imo-Boll-a-question-on-the-TTD-podcast!/page2

The quoted posts were originally taken from the thread “ask Timo Boll a question on the TTD podcast.“

 

[BeGo]

Very nice. Do you know if this book is still available? Sounds like an interesting read.

BTW: had to correct my first post and add in the proper link.
https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/...imo-Boll-a-question-on-the-TTD-podcast!/page2

The quoted posts were originally taken from the thread “ask Timo Boll a question on the TTD podcast.“

Make sense.

Tip of finger (upper phalanx, supine, near place to prick on blood test) are the most sensitive spot from Person hand.

And in golf, we are encouraged to use fingery grip as opposed to palmy grip for similar reason, to feel the impact between ball and blade.

And talking about fingery grip, We have Chetchetinine as the most prominent user of this grip. Furthermore, all penholder grip ARE fingery grip. [emoji6]

Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk

 

[Der_Echte]

I agree that the original post while discussing some worthy points, was very absent of usable information.

Since this is an important part of impact, yet utterly under-discussed (think of all the "Should I use XXX Rubber threads) topic, I wanted to stimulate discussion.

Once ideas are tossed around and debated, you never know what gem will fall out of the bag that Felix the Cat totes around...

 

[Ilia Minkin]

an elementary student uses the arm, high school student uses the forearm, university student uses the wrist, phd student uses the fingers

And a PhD graduate can spin the ball using telekinetic force of the brain. Seriously speaking, I understand how to apply pressure on the racket using the index finger to create more forward force. But I struggle to parse this:

If you want to produce the tangential force with lots of spin, it might be slightly more difficult to explain. The index finger still needs to apply pressure, that way the finger and the rubber form a sort of 'static friction' or 'stationary friction'. Utilising this 'static friction' to support the wrist.

 

[Ilia Minkin]

A possible explanation is that it is possible to turn the racket in a screwdriver-like motion with the finger. So that the racket kind of wraps around the contour of the ball which will allegedly create more spin. But I don't if that makes sense at all and how much difference will it make.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Using the fingers can definitely do a bunch of things.

Because the fingers help you feel the ball better they can help you feel how to get the ball to sink into the sponger deeper without contacting the wood so you get maximum catapult and maximum mechanical spin from the rebound of the sponge and topsheet.

Pressure on the blade face with the index finger and thumb timed precisely with the ball contact increases spin on aggressive shots.

Using the fingers to soften pressure can also help you deaden incoming spin on short game by how you adjust grip pressure and make your hands soft.

Softer hands on touch will give you more control in the short game.

Der_Echte, are you going to give some insight into the speech you gave NextLevel about adjusting grip pressure on serve and short game which has everything to do with how you use your fingers in TT? Or are you going to let all of us start talking without divulging any of your secrets like the instigator/troublemaker you sometimes reveal yourself to be?


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[TTClassic]

Penholders probably have alot of insight into this.

A chinese coach I knew down here was telling me while I switching to shakehand that the most important fine adjustments in the angle of the racket face were done with the fingers (edit: for penholders that is). With the thumb and index fingers on opposite sides of the handle, quick pulling or even pushing with the middle knuckle on the thumb side is much faster than turning your whole wrist. The fingers on the back can also help alot with lightening impact or making minor acceleration in.

Now when I mess around on penhold, it's alot more fun to mess around with these ideas and some unexpected shots usually come out.

 

[Der_Echte]

Der_Echte, are you going to give some insight into the speech you gave NextLevel about adjusting grip pressure on serve and short game which has everything to do with how you use your fingers in TT? Or are you going to let all of us start talking without divulging any of your secrets like the instigator/troublemaker you sometimes reveal yourself to be?

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Don't know what you are talking about. (HAHA)

I think you are referring to the first time we gathered at NYISC (42n Back Painz club) and NL video'd just about everything except that speech. It was one day before his tourney win vs R. Dewitt.

If it isn't on video, it didn't happen.

I do remember it was about how to take away spin on a short underspin or add to it on the deep return or add to it on a short return. I also discussed how Rich gives back different balls with his touch and hand pressure. NL told me that it gave some things to think about input and output he wasn't considering before. It wasn't anything that was invented, but the concepts I discussed were likely something very under-discussed like this topic.

 

[ttmonster]

Then lets discuss it ... why don't you take the lead and the rest of the crew will follow sooner than later ...

Don't know what you are talking about. (HAHA)

I think you are referring to the first time we gathered at NYISC (42n Back Painz club) and NL video'd just about everything except that speech. It was one day before his tourney win vs R. Dewitt.

If it isn't on video, it didn't happen.

I do remember it was about how to take away spin on a short underspin or add to it on the deep return or add to it on a short return. I also discussed how Rich gives back different balls with his touch and hand pressure. NL told me that it gave some things to think about input and output he wasn't considering before. It wasn't anything that was invented, but the concepts I discussed were likely something very under-discussed like this topic.

 

[Ilia Minkin]

I saw the thread when you created, at first I thought it was a joke because of the way the title is "Usage of finger by a member" , I thought something similar to what Baal had wrote about in the recent past that somebody had done something wrong .

My first thought was that it was one more thread about trolling.

 

[rokphish]

Is it something like this? Ot something else?

When I used to use inverted on the backhand, the residual mark much more visible.

 

[Archosaurus]

I found out at some point that adjusting the index finger to be more to the side and deeper on the rubber resulted in a more consistent pendulum serve.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Then lets discuss it ... why don't you take the lead and the rest of the crew will follow sooner than later ...

Aha, Monster, so you also see how he brings up this topic he knows so much about, wanting us to start talking and won't give us the goods.

Somewhere after the ball has gotten rolling he will make one of those long and rambling stories where, in 3-6 successive posts he will have presented so much information and most people won't even be able to figure it out because the message is coded into the stories in between sentences about the goon squad falling through the trap door on the Brooklyn Bridge yet again.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

By the way, the coach that SmashFan worked with definitely presented that receiving serve with the FH you want your index finger to move up and more centered. He also wanted you to turn to an extreme BH grip with the thumb on the rubber for receiving with BH. And he wanted you to flip everything.