Video Footage Safe Thread

[UpSideDownCarl]

I dont know the thread rules or list.

Then you should read the first post in the thread. Quoted the first post below.

Now, I am sure, at some point you knew the rules of this thread. Because, of something you posted in a different thread quite a while ago. But....the rules of the thread are that only people who have been selected to comment on video footage are allowed to. The people who are allowed to have been selected for a reason.

This thread is for forum members to post footage of yourself. This is different than a regular thread. I will moderate this thread heavily. Anyone can post footage. But the only people who can comment on the footage are people who have been specifically selected because they are players who are able to give useful commentary.

These are the players who can give commentary on video footage:

1) Baal
2) Der_Echte
3) NDH
4) Richie
5) Lula
6) NextLevel
7) Brs
8) Takkyu_wa_inochi
9) Tinykin
10) pingpongpaddy
11) Tony's Table Tennis
12) Victor Moraga
13) cytivrat
14) ander999


Anyone can post footage. However, if anyone not on the list above tries to post commentary on footage, that commentary will be deleted. If someone presents commentary to me via PM for posting, and I deem it okay to post, I may make exceptions to this every so often. I also am reserving the right to edit the list and add if I decide someone is capable of making good, insightful commentary.

Hopefully, this will make it so people feel comfortable posting footage of themselves for people on the forum to see and get to know each other without feeling like the commentary that happens after posting footage is uncalled for. Also, if you wanted to post footage but would prefer nobody comments on the footage you present, you can ask that. I will help make that happen as well.


Again, comments from people who are not on the list above will get deleted.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Then you should read the first post in the thread. Quoted the first post below.

Now, I am sure, at some point you knew the rules of this thread. Because, of something you posted in a different thread quite a while ago. But....the rules of the thread are that only people who have been selected to comment on video footage are allowed to. The people who are allowed to have been selected for a reason.

ok. Well if you add me to the list, I will always give constructive feedback according to my own understanding and experience in the sport

 

[NextLevel]

Any comments on how I could improve my stroke mechanics? I mainly was focusing on generating quite a bit of spin and developing kind of a safe backhand against backspin. At the end I have copied some of the shots I thought were the best looking, the timestamp is in the description. Thank you for any input

The quality of the feed is not that good, it seems like you have something more complicated than just developing a safe backhand in mind based on that. Your basic stance is a bit upright so you seem to be going down and coming back up - yes there should be a squat, but you shouldn't be coming out of it as much as you seem to be, so the whole thing looks less smooth than it should. And how much that is being caused by the ball feed is unclear since it doesn't consistently come long.

For drills like this, it is usually better to hit one backspin and then one topspin at some point, as that is a better measure of your recovery to continue the rally after a block or counterspin. This might help break the tendency to come out fully upright.

EDIT: The other thing that is going on is that you start with a relaxed stance with your paddle by the side and you seem to finish/recover into one as well. You need to feel more like you are ready to play a stroke (forehand or backhand) by the end of stroke. Again, this will keep you from coming out upright unless your ready position is fundamentally upright. The idea is that most of your stroke should be guided by your body motion with less of it coming from your arm, but because you start with your racket low and not in a ready position for topspin, you will probably lose time playing the next ball or even playing a ball if it came to you as topspin.

 

[omelet]

I had been having problems with feeling shoulder tension with my usual BH loop technique so I tried to rework it yesterday by just tightening core every shot and focusing on relax/tighten/relax for forearm/wrist....

no pain today at all...but the video makes the technique seem a little off...

most of the closed angle ending to the stroke is due to immediate relaxing after stroke (i think). and the i tried to reset with body loosening/maybe slight hop rather than purely arm reset.

any comments?

 

[NextLevel]

I had been having problems with feeling shoulder tension with my usual BH loop technique so I tried to rework it yesterday by just tightening core every shot and focusing on relax/tighten/relax for forearm/wrist....

no pain today at all...but the video makes the technique seem a little off...

most of the closed angle ending to the stroke is due to immediate relaxing after stroke (i think). and the i tried to reset with body loosening/maybe slight hop rather than purely arm reset.

any comments?

The technique seems off because the backswing is inadequate and you are changing the plane of the stroke aggressively while swinging and not letting the elbow do the work. There is a "C" - shape out of which the modern backhand starts - if you get to that "C" shape and play out of it, the need to overextend on the follow through is largely reduced. In the "C" shape, you feel like the butt of the wrist is leading the swing. It is almost like you are pulling your racket into the ball. It is sometimes called "unsheathing the sword".

All the other things you mention are important, but I have found that if someone get that "C" shape, the rest of the stroke tends to follow naturally. You can see the C-shape in the backhand flick here in the thumb nail.

The coach has a lot of good backhand videos that are worth watching to put together a simple but fundamentally stable and high level backhand. I will link the main ones here, including the one on backhand hit and backhand topspin.

This is the backhand topspin video - it is actually after the backhand hit video which is the second video below:

This second video is important because of the point he makes about wrist flexion being the base grip for the backhand strokes.

Finally the backhand topspin against backspin video:

IF you get the backswing right, a lot of stuff about the backhand topspin tends to happen naturally. The C can be formed in many similar but superficially different ways, but I don't know anyone with a really good backhand topspin who doesn't form some version of it.

 

[omelet]

The technique seems off because the backswing is inadequate and you are changing the plane of the stroke aggressively while swinging and not letting the elbow do the work. There is a "C" - shape out of which the modern backhand starts - if you get to that "C" shape and play out of it, the need to overextend on the follow through is largely reduced. In the "C" shape, you feel like the butt of the wrist is leading the swing. It is almost like you are pulling your racket into the ball. It is sometimes called "unsheathing the sword".

All the other things you mention are important, but I have found that if someone get that "C" shape, the rest of the stroke tends to follow naturally. You can see the C-shape in the backhand flick here in the thumb nail.

The coach has a lot of good backhand videos that are worth watching to put together a simple but fundamentally stable and high level backhand. I will link the main ones here, including the one on backhand hit and backhand topspin.

This is the backhand topspin video - it is actually after the backhand hit video which is the second video below:

This second video is important because of the point he makes about wrist flexion being the base grip for the backhand strokes.

Finally the backhand topspin against backspin video:

IF you get the backswing right, a lot of stuff about the backhand topspin tends to happen naturally. The C can be formed in many similar but superficially different ways, but I don't know anyone with a really good backhand topspin who doesn't form some version of it.

Thanks. Really appreciate the detailed reply. Hmmm...Im still trying to work out incorporating what the videos said. If you pause during the start of my stroke, it feels like I dont have more space unless I start taking the racket to my left hip, which I heard is the old style and one is supposed to take the ball in the middle instead. I wonder if for further distance loops, I need to rotate upperbody more and snap my forearm more, BUT mainly, i need to STOP the wrist at the end of the stroke rather than keeping it loose throughout.

I also wonder if its a question of loop vs drive ratio. If its loop with higher arc, my swing starts looking more normal. But if I try to create this straight line to the opponents table with more speed than spin, my stroke keeps changing to the previous video.

Am I doing the same things wrong you mentioned in this video? Im showing Bh Drives, Backspin Loop, then Loop/Smash. Unfortunately, thats as far as I can stand in the room.

Again I appreciate your time and input.

[Some advice around technique is really confusing. The guy you linked you has awesome videos but he says you need to drop right shoulder for FH loop. I was told thats really bad in terms of balance and I shouldnt do it.]

 

[NextLevel]

Thanks. Really appreciate the detailed reply. Hmmm...Im still trying to work out incorporating what the videos said. If you pause during the start of my stroke, it feels like I dont have more space unless I start taking the racket to my left hip, which I heard is the old style and one is supposed to take the ball in the middle instead. I wonder if for further distance loops, I need to rotate upperbody more and snap my forearm more, BUT mainly, i need to STOP the wrist at the end of the stroke rather than keeping it loose throughout.

I also wonder if its a question of loop vs drive ratio. If its loop with higher arc, my swing starts looking more normal. But if I try to create this straight line to the opponents table with more speed than spin, my stroke keeps changing to the previous video.

Am I doing the same things wrong you mentioned in this video? Im showing Bh Drives, Backspin Loop, then Loop/Smash. Unfortunately, thats as far as I can stand in the room.

Again I appreciate your time and input.

[Some advice around technique is really confusing. The guy you linked you has awesome videos but he says you need to drop right shoulder for FH loop. I was told thats really bad in terms of balance and I shouldnt do it.]

A couple of points, I usually don't watch backhand topspins from behind so maybe you are doing things I can't see. But when I look at it, you are pronating from the shoulder to get most of your effect. And I think this is because your backswing is insufficient to shorten the follow through. But is this a possible approach? Sure. If you are happy with it, keep doing it. Your backhand is quite serviceable.

The modern approach is to get the C-backswing with the wrist snapping back and then decide from there whether you want to 1) use mostly wrist 2) use wrist and elbow or 3) use all wrist elbow and shoulder (using the body/core is always a given).

Here is a different video that emphasizes the main point I was trying to make again. This guy's backhand is different from the other video. But the focus on the backswing is just as important:

You can play a very short backhand out of the same backswing. You can play any backhand out of that backswing. But if you want to shorten your follow through, that backswing is what does it. Most of us who learned late hit the ball kind of like Tom does, and there is nothing to be ashamed of doing it that way.

All the videos show different things but what I want to emphasize is the backswing and the extra energy you can get if you manage to get to it. Again, your backhand is quite serviceable. I think you can do a lot with it. I am just explaining why it doesn't look like what a modern backhand usually looks like and why the wrist follows through so far (it is often because it didn't start back enough).

 

[omelet]

A couple of points, I usually don't watch backhand topspins from behind so maybe you are doing things I can't see. But when I look at it, you are pronating from the shoulder to get most of your effect. And I think this is because your backswing is insufficient to shorten the follow through. But is this a possible approach? Sure. If you are happy with it, keep doing it. Your backhand is quite serviceable.

The modern approach is to get the C-backswing with the wrist snapping back and then decide from there whether you want to 1) use mostly wrist 2) use wrist and elbow or 3) use all wrist elbow and shoulder (using the body/core is always a given).

Here is a different video that emphasizes the main point I was trying to make again. This guy's backhand is different from the other video. But the focus on the backswing is just as important:

You can play a very short backhand out of the same backswing. You can play any backhand out of that backswing. But if you want to shorten your follow through, that backswing is what does it. Most of us who learned late hit the ball kind of like Tom does, and there is nothing to be ashamed of doing it that way.

All the videos show different things but what I want to emphasize is the backswing and the extra energy you can get if you manage to get to it. Again, your backhand is quite serviceable. I think you can do a lot with it. I am just explaining why it doesn't look like what a modern backhand usually looks like and why the wrist follows through so far (it is often because it didn't start back enough).

Thanks NextLevel. I will try elongating my backswing and see how that works out and get back to this thread.

Any comments on my FH loop? I am reworking it to combine with the little hop/footwork rather than being stationary every loop.

 

[NextLevel]

Thanks NextLevel. I will try elongating my backswing and see how that works out and get back to this thread.

Any comments on my FH loop? I am reworking it to combine with the little hop/footwork rather than being stationary every loop.

Others may find something, but from where I sit, your forehand looks pretty standard and your legs seem to be doing the right things and the power seems to be driven largely by your rotation. Some might tell you to lean forward a bit more but I don't know about that. You might want to practice different timings by moving in and out, but that is not necessarily a technical issue. Maybe some things will break down if you are more aggressive but for what you are doing, it looks really good.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Tell me what happened in G2 & G3?

I should not have lost.

 

[Lazer]

Tell me what happened in G2 & G3?

I should not have lost.

It’s the greeen (sheesh) rubber. 😉

Cheers
L-zr

 

[z0uLess]

1 minute counter-topspin vs. robot:

Forehand topspin vs. block:

The first set of a tournament I recently participated in:

 

[NextLevel]

1 minute counter-topspin vs. robot:

Forehand topspin vs. block:

The first set of a tournament I recently participated in:

The last video is private.

The drills look basic but it still isn't entirely clear what you are trying to achieve or improve. Let's remember that most table tennis points don't last more than 3‐4 shots in total so it is important to bring your weapons early. If you are aiming for power, the stroke should be more physical. If you are aiming for consistent spin, the stroke should have a tightly timed acceleration. In general, I think taking the ball earlier and close to the table would also help you, but you can develop things in the video drill, but again, it isn't entirely clear what you are trying to do or focus on. But maybe there are extenuating factors (inconsistent robot, inconsistent blocker) that I am missing. It is also usually better as funny as it sounds to many people because they think it hides the legs, to show these videos from the front regardless of the limits because most of us who coach are used to seeing this from the front. The other views are important for sure, but a minute from each view is all we need and if there is only one view, get a good one from the front as priority.

The video that is private would help to get more context for your play. I think you have potential physically, but I think as a late learner, you have to be more aggressively spin focused.

 

[z0uLess]

The last video is private.

The drills look basic but it still isn't entirely clear what you are trying to achieve or improve. Let's remember that most table tennis points don't last more than 3‐4 shots in total so it is important to bring your weapons early. If you are aiming for power, the stroke should be more physical. If you are aiming for consistent spin, the stroke should have a tightly timed acceleration. In general, I think taking the ball earlier and close to the table would also help you, but you can develop things in the video drill, but again, it isn't entirely clear what you are trying to do or focus on. But maybe there are extenuating factors (inconsistent robot, inconsistent blocker) that I am missing. It is also usually better as funny as it sounds to many people because they think it hides the legs, to show these videos from the front regardless of the limits because most of us who coach are used to seeing this from the front. The other views are important for sure, but a minute from each view is all we need and if there is only one view, get a good one from the front as priority.

The video that is private would help to get more context for your play. I think you have potential physically, but I think as a late learner, you have to be more aggressively spin focused.

Thanks! I will start recording myself from that angle as well. I havent thought of that! Right now, my game is quite block-oriented, since I play on a low entry level in tournaments and peoples mistakes are enough to win me games (and I have good reach and really good serves). I will make the last video public. I started playing at age 38, and had never tried table tennis or any racket sports before that ... so the age thing is kinda part of the gimmick and something I am trying to prove to people that is possible.

Hopefully, my forehand loop will turn into a weapon (people in the club say its my stregth, but in matches I often feel more secure with my Mark V bakchand because its a more beginner friendly rubber). What I am training in the loop block drill is all the fundamentals: placement of feet, coordination of all the different parts of the body, timing, placement of where the ball is going, acceleration through the ball ... basic efficiency of movement. I started playing december 2021, so I have only played in 2022 and 2023 with a long break this summer because of knee issues. I am doing physical therapy for that right now, but there also may be an issue with my technique that makes the jumpers knee flair up in the left leg. I have almost 400 videos up on my channel.

I lost the first set, here are the other 3 sets that I won:

 

[NextLevel]

Thanks! I will start recording myself from that angle as well. I havent thought of that! Right now, my game is quite block-oriented, since I play on a low entry level in tournaments and peoples mistakes are enough to win me games (and I have good reach and really good serves). I will make the last video public. I started playing at age 38, and had never tried table tennis or any racket sports before that ... so the age thing is kinda part of the gimmick and something I am trying to prove to people that is possible.

Hopefully, my forehand loop will turn into a weapon (people in the club say its my stregth, but in matches I often feel more secure with my Mark V bakchand because its a more beginner friendly rubber). What I am training in the loop block drill is all the fundamentals: placement of feet, coordination of all the different parts of the body, timing, placement of where the ball is going, acceleration through the ball ... basic efficiency of movement. I started playing december 2021, so I have only played in 2022 and 2023 with a long break this summer because of knee issues. I am doing physical therapy for that right now, but there also may be an issue with my technique that makes the jumpers knee flair up in the left leg. I have almost 400 videos up on my channel.

I lost the first set, here are the other 3 sets that I won:

So there are a couple of videos I will recommend to you. I started serious TT maybe 4 years younger than you did. Most people who see me assume that I started much younger but I tell them that I suspect I'd be stronger if I didnt have arthritis, I had knee issues which got worse over time, I would be a bit stronger as my limitation is not my style but my movement which is restricted because I try to avoid injury and pain of having no cartilage in the legs from autoimmune arthritis.

Since you started older, the hardest part for you but the part you need to get to sooner rather than later or your TT instincts will struggle is to realize that you can topspin almost everything with fast wrist action and your preparation should be to topspin almost everything, usually close to the table and off the bounce unless your opponent is forcing you back with quality. You might need to transition to sticky or spinnier faster rubber to play this style but it is the better way to go, no matter the initial pains. You need to learn to topspin with your hands (most people say topspin with the wrists which is essentially the same thing) and then add more hip physically to it so you become a more standard player who can integrate footwork. Right now you are pushing and blocking a lot of balls that you are athletic enough to overpower with good arm spinning technique and that will not be good for your long term prognosis the more you continue to do it because a lot of this sport is instincts. You can improve the use of the body to power the arms over time, which is the reverse of how kids learn it, but I find that this approach is easier for most adults than the traditional model for kids and I know some kids who did well with it as well.

The biggest thing for this approach is upper arm and elbow stability as well as having standard finishing positions on both sides for all shots. Learn to use the swing trajectory to shape the ball and learn to get more friction when there is less top spin on the ball (you get more friction by following the shape of the ball more aggressively). Use your misses to adjust your swing planes and ball reads and learn to play over the ball especially closer to the table. Again, it is easier with offensive blade plus sticky or very grippy spinny rubber. Mark V has side effects if your goal is to play an offensive style with modern topspin as it doesn't pick up the ball as well. But if you want to use Mark V on both sides, go ahead, it has side effects and is better for hitting, it is serviceable for minimum style. I would recommend a rubber like Fastarc C1 or G1.

The next thing is to learn the feeling of spin and catching the ball with lots of practice just making the ball rotate and that is where the videos below are helpful. Your serve shows me that you know how to spin, but you aren't rewarding yourself Just topspin the ball by figuring how to approach it, if might require you to get a bit lower just on serve return. Instead of these drills with the robot, I would do a lot of self multiball both after dropping the ball on the floor or hitting the ball out of the hand, trying to hit the ball through different arcs with maximum rotation and then different kinds of rotation (sidespin, topspin, high arc, low arc, but all with spin and standard salute on forehand and standard backswing on backhand).

I have written a lot of unsolicited advice which is never a good thing, so I will stop here. Hopefully some of it will resonate but regardless good luck with your style and development.

 

[Der_Echte]

I prolly started later than NL... and if NL saw my current 240 lb short body frame he would both vomit and study physics sum moar to see how it is possible.

I echo what NL says about seeking to attack and SPIN that ball.

 

[z0uLess]

I have only recently started to find confidence in tournament play by playing defencively and waiting more to find the right attack. My starting blade, Stiga Offensive Classic, is a beginners looping blade, and I never really developed any defensive game (plan B before I find the right attack). I think you guys struggle to see the context of the playstyle that is produced here and if you would see the way I play much more risky during training you might think otherwise about it. Before, I would try to attack everything and I would only lose points by it by entering a mental spiral of frustration from not being able to get a read on the ball quickly enough (not enough experience).

You are bang on correct about me needing to close the racket more, though. I tried playing with Hurricane 3 Neo for four months and I suspect this is what made the habit of open racket hitting.

Again, theres tons and tons of data om my channel, https://www.youtube.com/@z0uLess/videos

My forehand rubber (red) is Yasaka Rakza Z, which is both tacky and very spinny. It says so right there on the left side of my posts.

My muscles mean nothing in table tennis, other than the byproduct of lifting weights of having a stable core that can genererate power into the ball -- its a brain and habit sport and the quick firing fibres and tendons do much more than large strong muscles (10-rep muscles). In fact, large muscles in the upper body only slow me down.

Here is video of me in training vs. a defensive player 18. May 2023 where I attack a bunch more:

I weigh close to 100 kg here and today my weight is probably lower than 90 kg, possibly 85 kg.

My equipment history (20 months of playing):
Stiga Offensive Classic, Yasaka Rigan both sides
Stiga Offensive Classic, Yasaka Rigan backhand, Unboosted DHS Hurricane 3 Neo commercial forehand
Stiga Offensive Classic, Yasaka Rigan backhand, Yasaka Rakza Z forehand
Stiga Offensive Classic, Yasaka Mark V backhand, Yasaka Rakza Z forehand
Avalox P500, Yasaka Mark V backhand, Yasaka Rakza Z forehand

 

[NextLevel]

I have only recently started to find confidence in tournament play by playing defencively and waiting more to find the right attack. My starting blade, Stiga Offensive Classic, is a beginners looping blade, and I never really developed any defensive game (plan B before I find the right attack). I think you guys struggle to see the context of the playstyle that is produced here and if you would see the way I play much more risky during training you might think otherwise about it. Before, I would try to attack everything and I would only lose points by it by entering a mental spiral of frustration from not being able to get a read on the ball quickly enough (not enough experience).

You are bang on correct about me needing to close the racket more, though. I tried playing with Hurricane 3 Neo for four months and I suspect this is what made the habit of open racket hitting.

Again, theres tons and tons of data om my channel, https://www.youtube.com/@z0uLess/videos

My forehand rubber (red) is Yasaka Rakza Z, which is both tacky and very spinny. It says so right there on the left side of my posts.

My muscles mean nothing in table tennis, other than the byproduct of lifting weights of having a stable core that can genererate power into the ball -- its a brain and habit sport and the quick firing fibres and tendons do much more than large strong muscles (10-rep muscles). In fact, large muscles in the upper body only slow me down.

Here is video of me in training vs. a defensive player 18. May 2023 where I attack a bunch more:

I weigh close to 100 kg here and today my weight is probably lower than 90 kg, possibly 85 kg.

My equipment history (20 months of playing):
Stiga Offensive Classic, Yasaka Rigan both sides
Stiga Offensive Classic, Yasaka Rigan backhand, Unboosted DHS Hurricane 3 Neo commercial forehand
Stiga Offensive Classic, Yasaka Rigan backhand, Yasaka Rakza Z forehand
Stiga Offensive Classic, Yasaka Mark V backhand, Yasaka Rakza Z forehand
Avalox P500, Yasaka Mark V backhand, Yasaka Rakza Z forehand

I know you use Rakza Z on forehand, maybe I should have made that clear. I am just telling you the things I wish people told me when I started in 2011. Maybe I wouldn't have listened, but at least the ball was different back then and I at least mostly played a pushing and blocking style, similar to what you are doing now. My coach did train me to spin with the wrists but when I hit the ball, I focused more on speed than on pure rotation, and never got stable with thr topspin and preferred pushing and blocking. Right now, I probably focus too much on rotation but it is a very stable playing style. As Carl can tell you, I used all wood primarily for a long time, though I think it is not as important with the plastic ball. It was after I kept losing to players while the kids around me kept improving that I asked my coach why I was stagnating so badly and he said that it was because I refused to focus on spin. It still took me years to focus on spin and build out my forehand especially, my backhand was relatively natural but my knees made me reluctant to set my feet properly, but I built out elbow snap technique on my forehand. When I started to focus on rotation, the immediate gains were significant and I fully realized them over a period of about 3 years. Then I made other changes to develop my game to be more conventional and those were what took me to where I am today, which is not necessarily much better than I was when I was unconventional. but better able to adapt to most opponents and more able to read and play and teach the modern game.

In any case, the advice is not just for you. Others may gain from it. The beauty of table tennis is that other than the cost of following really bad advice, which has to be evaluated carefully, it costs nothing to test what people show you for a month or two. See whether it helps and if not, go back to what you originally did. But that said, you can do it your own preferred way. In the end, no one gets better by themselves.

Like I said, if your focus has been on spin all this time and learning to topspin and adapt your stroke to any incoming ball, ignore me. But when I see your game, I understand it because I was there, you are comfortable playing with slower stuff because it doesnt send out the ball as fast, because you are playing mostly flat. You need to get your feeling for spin to exceed the threshold so your consistency goes way up. It doesnt happen by accident, some people never get there. But some adults get there after being given advice and taking it. Even just three weeks ago, I had the conversation with someone at a club I visit. I saw him a week and a half later, he said he took my advice and it made the gsme feel so much easier and he was now beating players he thought were completely out of his range. No doubt, he is a better player than you at the moment, but my point is that the deliberate focus on learning to topspin almost everything and learning that the topspin is a stroke you adapt to the ball and once you learn to read and adapt it to the ball, you can use it confidently against all balls that come long, and even some that don't, it is the way ro improve fast.

Even watching your opponent in that match, he has a lot of potential, but his spin level is too low, so he is missing a lot of shots that he should be putting away safely and you should be missing a lot of his shots with your blocks. If he focused more on spin, he could raiss his level fast. Because the first thing focusing on spin does is bring consistency. You learn to use one shot in multiple ways that form a system to approach the ball.

Anyways, again, this is unsolicited advice and I should simply accept how you have received it Closing the racket more by itself is not the same thing as focusing on spin. In fact spinning with open rackets is very possible. The main thing is to broadly try to make the ball rotate. Ideally with standard technique. But whatever works.

 

[Der_Echte]

Hi z0uLess,

When at the table on a finishing shot, making a long backswing and long stroke is difficult to time and unreliable for a fast ball output... it is WAY more productive to learn how to raise had to level of ball, take a step forward with a short stroke... and really firm up the grip AT impact. THAT will transfer massive power to the ball more than anything.

You can literally make smash speed with a 30 cm stroke if you learn timing and firming.

 

[Mikey_TT]

hey! i have been working on my pendulum serve for a few months now, any feedback?
goal is to get a short, low, spinny serve.. but my serves often go half long or long
Thanks