"wrapping" the ball.

[brokenball]

Someone recently posted a lot of links and said that "wrapping" the ball is good.

Can anyone explain a few things about "wrapping" the ball.
1 I don't really understand what metaphors are. Can you explain what people mean by wrapping the ball.

 

[zeio]

I say it is and it is. No proof needed. This is not a court of law. There is no need for proof. My eyes are the proof.

 

[NextLevel]

Zeio recently posted a lot of links and said that "wrapping" the ball is good.
I think it is misguided myths and lies that mislead others.

I want zeio to explain a few things about "wrapping" the ball.
1 how fast must a paddle rotate to "wrap the ball"
2 how long is contact time where the ball is being "wrapped"?
3 what happens if the ball hits the paddle a millisecond sooner or later as the paddle is rotating?
5 Do you really think even pros can time contact to the millisecond. If they could then all the contacts should be in the middle of the sweet spot!

Nextlevel can join in to defend zeio if he dares.

Until you actually post video showing that you can hit a ball with heavy topspin or that you know how to play a hooking or fading loop (or alternatively, that you have coached someone who can do these things), I will gladly stay out it. It is stupid to discuss topics like this with someone who clearly doesn't have the basic qualifications/ability to even enter the discussion. Just the framing of the questions shows the vapid approach

 

[superbackhand]

it seems like some people have a lot of free time

 

[brokenball]

Until you actually post video showing that you can hit a ball with heavy topspin or that you know how to play a hooking or fading loop (or alternatively, that you have coached someone who can do these things), I will gladly stay out it. It is stupid to discuss topics like this with someone who clearly doesn't have the basic qualifications/ability to even enter the discussion. Just the framing of the questions shows the vapid approach

I have posted a video of me looping with a c-pen.

 

[Zwill]

 

[NextLevel]

You don't know anything about "wrapping" the ball so you want to divert the discussion.
I have posted a video of me looping with a c-pen. I loop to both sides of the table and go for the pocket too. These are real loops because I am hitting them from below net height and still landing the ball. Too many call top spin drives a loop when there is so much speed the ball doesn't arc much.
If you want to find the video, go fish.

It is also obvious that zeio cannot back up what he claims. He can't or wont answer any of my questions.

Zeio and Nextlevel failed badly. They are no fun. You didn't even try with any kind of bogus theory.

Does anybody else want to play? I love destroying myths.

Can you please reshare the video? If you do and the video shows you looping, I will give you a glorious theory to critique.

 

[Dr Evil]

Wrapping the ball (closing the angle during contact) helps generate topspin because it extends contact time. Though the difference can only be a fraction of a millisecond, the effect is fairly obvious in practice.

 

[blahness]

Sorry to pour oil onto the fire xD

Here is Fan Zhendong illustrating the wrapping technique.

You can see how he presses the racket angle down and finishes more to the side on the followthrough - the prime indication of wrapping. It is very obvious when he doesn't use his body fully for eg at 0:29

 

[ericd937]

Well I always tell people I'm not a good table tennis player. It's only my equipment that is good.

 

[NextLevel]

Wrapping the ball (closing the angle during contact) helps generate topspin because it extends contact time. Though the difference can only be a fraction of a millisecond, the effect is fairly obvious in practice.

I don't know whether it is about extending contact time as much as it is about following the shape of the ball which enhances spin with a more significant turning effect, all other things being equal. Regardless, it Timo Boll can teach it and claim it improved his technique, doesn't it make sense for the critics to explain why such an accomplished player can be so wrong about the utility of such behavior and then fit what they really think is going on into their own model so that it it explains what happens with and without wrapping so we can understand what they think the distinction really is if any exists?

 

[brokenball]

Wrapping the ball (closing the angle during contact) helps generate topspin because it extends contact time. Though the difference can only be a fraction of a millisecond, the effect is fairly obvious in practice.

OK.

 

[brokenball]

Can you please reshare the video? If you do and the video shows you looping, I will give you a glorious theory to critique.

 

[Dr Evil]

I don't know whether it is about extending contact time as much as it is about following the shape of the ball which enhances spin with a more significant turning effect, all other things being equal.

I like "following the shape of the ball" as a coaching point, but not sure it doesn't amount to the same thing as closing the angle to extend contact time. The other possibility is that additional racket speed from the twisting motion accounts for enhanced spin. Could be both, but my guess is that extended contact time is more significant.

 

[Dr Evil]

OK, you just stepped in it. More fun for me and not for you.
How fast must the paddle be rotating to "wrap" a ball?
How much of the ball gets "wrapped"

If you're closing the angle through the strike zone, you'll extend contact time. It's basic geometry, brokenball, I'm sure you can figure it out.

 

[NextLevel]

I like "following the shape of the ball" as a coaching point, but not sure it doesn't amount to the same thing as closing the angle to extend contact time. The other possibility is that additional racket speed from the twisting motion accounts for enhanced spin. Could be both, but my guess is that extended contact time is more significant.

I don't disagree on that the instruction has a similar effect, I just think that what you call the twisting (I prefer turning) effect is more significant than the enhanced contact time but they may be inseparable. Not so much because the racket head speed is faster (I suspect it might be slower in absolute terms), but it is intentionally rotational while a stable racket angle has to be perfectly and appropriately tangential to have great turning effect..

 

[brokenball]

Sorry to pour oil onto the fire xD

Here is Fan Zhendong illustrating the wrapping technique.

You can see how he presses the racket angle down and finishes more to the side on the followthrough - the prime indication of wrapping. It is very obvious when he doesn't use his body fully for eg at 0:29

This video proves my point. I don't see where Fan Zendong is "wrapping" the ball. I gave the post a thunbs up.

 

[brokenball]

If you're closing the angle through the strike zone, you'll extend contact time. It's basic geometry, brokenball, I'm sure you can figure it out.

I want

 

[JJ Ng]

This video proves my point. I don't see where Fan Zendong is "wrapping" the ball. I gave the post a thunbs up.

I am going to go with brokenball on this one. The ball flies out of Fan Zendong's blade. I really think that the ball only stayed on his blade for minisecond. Lot of it is most likely follow through.

Let us say "wrapping" exists. What level of playing are we talking about? And would wrapping works better with softer sponge rubber than harder sponge rubbber?

 

[blahness]

This video proves my point. I don't see where Fan Zendong is "wrapping" the ball. I gave the post a thunbs up.

If you notice, he goes up during the stroke and sidewards/down during the followthrough. Also he contacts roughly perpendicular to the ball, and finishes with a closed racket angle. This is what we refer to as wrapping.

Now there are ppl who use linear strokes with minimal wrapping.

This is a linear stroke at 5:10: