German Association Reject Ovtcharov & Mizutani's doubles bid! WTTC 2017!

[Suga D]

The German fans would love to see Dima paired up with Mizutani... come on...

Sorry to spoil your mood, but where you´ve got that from? German forums are telling a different story. Most people seem to understand the decision by the DTTB.
Next Level is pretty much on point.

Germany has got three spots for doubles.

1. Timo Boll and Ma Long was already confirmed.
2. Patrick Franziska and Jonathan Groth are one of the best doubles in Europe
So then there is only one more spot. And Ruwen Filus and Ricardo Walther have proven themselves already.
In the past Dima mainly had his focus just on Singles events, if that wasn´t the case, he probably would play now, but others have proven to be quite succesful too. So it would be quite unfair if Dima would play now and Filus and Walther not.

I´m not sure if it would have been of any significant difference if he would have chosen a Chinese Doubles Partner instead of Mizutani. And if him and Mizu would have played together already before at international Events, then he probably would also have better chances, but now all he does is look a bit jealous and selfish.

@DIMA: just keep your focus on Singles, like you´ve done in the past and focus to try to snatch that title!
[EMOJI6]

Besides: Fans who´ve seen Dima already play Doubles in the past weren´t actually happy about his performances.

here´s a read:
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/dimitrij-ovtcharov-ausgebootet-bei-der-heim-wm-1.3490701

http://www.mytischtennis.de/public/...start-bei-wm----39-dima--39--sehr-enttaeuscht

 

[Gangarth]

Everybody wants to see Ma/Boll!

Groth/Franziska are the european champions.
Walther/Filus are the german champions.
It's so easy to understand.

Most german fans don't want to see Dima playing doubles.

 

[ttpshot]

Hang on, Mizutani won a bronze medal in WTTC doubles before not to mention a stack full of gold medals he won in Nationals. Strong in serves/recieves, great in rallies, and a leftie makes him one of the best doubles player in Japan.

 

[laistrogian]

Hang on, Mizutani won a bronze medal in WTTC doubles before not to mention a stack full of gold medals he won in Nationals. Strong in serves/recieves, great in rallies, and a leftie makes him one of the best doubles player in Japan.

I'm somewhat curious why japan doesn't put mizutani with either Kishikawa Seiya (where this pairing was proven to be a good one) or Yoshimura

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Hang on, Mizutani won a bronze medal in WTTC doubles before not to mention a stack full of gold medals he won in Nationals. Strong in serves/recieves, great in rallies, and a leftie makes him one of the best doubles player in Japan.

This isn't about Mizuntani or Japan
This is about German's 3 pairs

SugaD sums it all up

If Dima wanted to feature in doubles, he should of done so in all the world tours and not just wait for WTTC
Its simple, 3 spots, if Dima comes in, who do Germany leave out?

 

[TTHopeful]

Great post Suga you are spot on

 

[Suga D]

This isn't about Mizuntani or Japan
This is about German's 3 pairs

SugaD sums it all up

If Dima wanted to feature in doubles, he should of done so in all the world tours and not just wait for WTTC
Its simple, 3 spots, if Dima comes in, who do Germany leave out?

Exactly. Couldn't have explained it any better.
[Emoji106]

Great post Suga you are spot on

Thanks mate. But after having thought about your post, i have to admit, you have a point too,
'cause either the ITTF is bad at Maths or they been fooling us TT-fans 1nce again.

When we look at 2nation Doubles, how come do both countries loose a spot??
Aren't they just supposed to loose a half spot? Almost as if they get punished for having two-nation doubles!!

If i'm correct then it takes 6 players to form three Doubles pairs. Am i correct so far?
So shouldn't then six players should be able to play Doubles, regardless of playing with someone from the own country or from another country???
Or are my thoughts completely wrong?

If one counts properly then both Nations should be able to form another two-nation doubles, so us spectators don't get cheated and ripped off for having one less Doubles team to watch! IMHO

Just my 2 ¢

I hope this has been understandable. Wasn't easy to break this down.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[ttmonster]

Great post Suga D. and I have already categorized him as such. That is the reason he and his entourage works extra hard to rebuild his image as a great guy , I am sure he is just a normal guy who happens to be a little jealous and selfish ... then who isn't .. but he is too naive to let it come out as such ...

He should have played doubles in world tours earlier and with Mizu playing in the same club in Russia , it would have been so convenient for him to practice ... its just a case of too little too late for him to stake this claim now ...

but now all he does is look a bit jealous and selfish.


Besides: Fans who´ve seen Dima already play Doubles in the past weren´t actually happy about his performances.

 

[Garrison]

First I thought that Dimitrij should be granted the spot no matter what due to his achievements and high ranking, but since Franziska+Groth are european champions they have pretty much earned it and I can understand that they want to have at least one full german double (who are also national champions).

If Dima was so interested in playing doubles he could have shown it earlier.

I am also curious what the ittf does with the spots that get lost by mixed nationals doubles

 

[NextLevel]

They want to give you an incentive to have national team pairings. It lets you have more players participating.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Exactly. Couldn't have explained it any better.
[Emoji106]



Thanks mate. But after having thought about your post, i have to admit, you have a point too,
'cause either the ITTF is bad at Maths or they been fooling us TT-fans 1nce again.

When we look at 2nation Doubles, how come do both countries loose a spot??
Aren't they just supposed to loose a half spot? Almost as if they get punished for having two-nation doubles!!

If i'm correct then it takes 6 players to form three Doubles pairs. Am i correct so far?
So shouldn't then six players should be able to play Doubles, regardless of playing with someone from the own country or from another country???
Or are my thoughts completely wrong?

If one counts properly then both Nations should be able to form another two-nation doubles, so us spectators don't get cheated and ripped off for having one less Doubles team to watch! IMHO

Just my 2 ¢

I hope this has been understandable. Wasn't easy to break this down.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I like this point. It is a pretty interesting one. I wish the ITTF thought of it that way. And it would mean that each country can field the same number of players and it would give the countries an incentive to allow two mixed nation doubles pairs of they could still have two same nation pairs.

However, I believe the bottom line is that NextLevel is correct when he says this:

They want to give you an incentive to have national team pairings. It lets you have more players participating.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[Suga D]

I like this point. It is a pretty interesting one. I wish the ITTF thought of it that way. And it would mean that each country can field the same number of players and it would give the countries an incentive to allow two mixed nation doubles pairs of they could still have two same nation pairs.

However, I believe the bottom line is that NextLevel is correct when he says this:

They want to give you an incentive to have national team pairings. It lets you have more players participating.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Exactly. The both of you are probably right.
Smells a bit like a hidden punishment.

 

[NextLevel]

Exactly. The both of you are probably right.
Smells a bit like a hidden punishment.

I don't think it is so hidden though. They probably thought through it and wanted to give people an incentive to field national teams and so that top countries would not use it to increase their medal count with collusion/bribery without cost (imagine if China paired with Japan or Germany or Korea for every doubles team, that would be collusion with no chance for other countries to get medals).

So if we did not count each entry the way they do it now and go to your proposed system, Germany could have an athlete on 6 doubles teams in men's doubles for example. That will be increasing its medal chances without penalty, when it should only have 3 chances to win medals.

 

[Michal_Z]

This isn't about Mizuntani or Japan
This is about German's 3 pairs

SugaD sums it all up

If Dima wanted to feature in doubles, he should of done so in all the world tours and not just wait for WTTC
Its simple, 3 spots, if Dima comes in, who do Germany leave out?

Still I think they should consider it better..
I mean - yes, there are some arguments against and some arguments for..
Why wouldnt they give them a chance?
I understand, that it would be pretty unanalyzed pair for the chinese and therefor they would probably have a big chance to win a medal.. if they would be good enough. And this hiding from analyzis of the chinese is a good reason not to play in pro tour doubles. BUT! .. without competition you never know how good you really are!
So what would be my suggestion (now too late anyways, but..) - let them play in some doubles trials!
Why the german team didnt make some doubles trials, where Timo-Ma Long would not be, because they surely want to promote table tennis around the world and this is pretty cool pair.. But - lets others fight for the remaining 2 places of the doubles! Lets make some doubles trials - let them fight and see who is got it and who not??

 

[Suga D]

I don't think it is so hidden though. They probably thought through it and wanted to give people an incentive to field national teams and so that top countries would not use it to increase their medal count with collusion/bribery without cost (imagine if China paired with Japan or Germany or Korea for every doubles team, that would be collusion with no chance for other countries to get medals).

So if we did not count each entry the way they do it now and go to your proposed system, Germany could have an athlete on 6 doubles teams in men's doubles for example. That will be increasing its medal chances without penalty, when it should only have 3 chances to win medals.

Hmmmhh.

Interesting thought. Haven't seen it that way. Thanks.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

To me, the whole national thing is a little weird and always feels off anyway. I wish it was organized more like tennis tournaments are where they don't really even mention where the player comes from as a thing. Or, at least not the way they do in table tennis.

In tennis does it matter what country your doubles partner comes from? Would they even call that a mixed nation doubles team if it happened? I actually, honestly don't know. But it is interesting to me.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[ttmonster]

Totally makes sense Carl ... I think Table tennis is in dire need of major "Open tournaments" that will cut across these national boundaries , and when I mean major , I mean "Major" the likes of wimbledon, US Open , etc. in tennis ... this will make the sports popular and spread it out .... instead of having multiple tournaments with countries playing each other like Davis Cup.... and pro tours are failing woefully short on this ... I guess thats why we see the new initiative where Vladi, Timo etc. are playing .. I think this country based loyalty thing ties back to the politics of ITTF where divide and conquer is easier to get votes ... but yes somebody has to figure out how to generate revenue ... and changing equipment to suck amateur blood money isn't going to cut it for long ...

To me, the whole national thing is a little weird and always feels off anyway. I wish it was organized more like tennis tournaments are where they don't really even mention where the player comes from as a thing. Or, at least not the way they do in table tennis.

In tennis does it matter what country your doubles partner comes from? Would they even call that a mixed nation doubles team if it happened? I actually, honestly don't know. But it is interesting to me.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Still I think they should consider it better..
I mean - yes, there are some arguments against and some arguments for..
Why wouldnt they give them a chance?
I understand, that it would be pretty unanalyzed pair for the chinese and therefor they would probably have a big chance to win a medal.. if they would be good enough. And this hiding from analyzis of the chinese is a good reason not to play in pro tour doubles. BUT! .. without competition you never know how good you really are!
So what would be my suggestion (now too late anyways, but..) - let them play in some doubles trials!
Why the german team didnt make some doubles trials, where Timo-Ma Long would not be, because they surely want to promote table tennis around the world and this is pretty cool pair.. But - lets others fight for the remaining 2 places of the doubles! Lets make some doubles trials - let them fight and see who is got it and who not??

Obviously the german national team felt the 3 pairs selected/entered is the best 3 pairs for medals
individual performance has no say in doubles to be fair to any player

 

[NextLevel]

To me, the whole national thing is a little weird and always feels off anyway. I wish it was organized more like tennis tournaments are where they don't really even mention where the player comes from as a thing. Or, at least not the way they do in table tennis.

In tennis does it matter what country your doubles partner comes from? Would they even call that a mixed nation doubles team if it happened? I actually, honestly don't know. But it is interesting to me.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Table tennis funding is largely governmental. Tennis funding is largely corporate. Makes a big difference in the influence of national associations on the sport.

 

[Matt Hetherington]

I'm sure the most reasonable explanation is that they want Dima to focus on the singles where he has a legitimate chance of progressing to potentially win a medal, it's not so surprising really.

When I spoke to Timo in China a couple of years ago he said now was the time for Ovtcharov to start focusing on the major events like WTTC and World Cup before he gets too old, this is his window of opportunity.