Timo Boll Insane Dive! In or Out?

[TableTennisDaily]

I'm pretty sure you have all seen this absolutely insane dive roller at the German Open last night by Timo Boll. Was it in or out? Have your say in the posts and be sure to cast your vote!

 

[Garrison]

When watching live I thought it hit the clamp, then I thought it hit the edge of the table. Setting the speed to 0.25 it becomes visible that it actually bounced of that side part of the table so it was right to reward the point to LGY.

 

[sanavasaraja]

Props to the ref

 

[TTHopeful]

Timo still got it even at his age!

 

[Tinykin]

When watching live I thought it hit the clamp, then I thought it hit the edge of the table. Setting the speed to 0.25 it becomes visible that it actually bounced of that side part of the table so it was right to reward the point to LGY.

View attachment 14661

I wasn't sure what you were saying there. But as I see it, the ball hit the table twice on Boll's side before he made the spectacular lunge.

 

[TableTennis BelgiumTV]

Timo, on Fire Again !

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Of all the 35yr+ players that is still active
Timo is the only one that is still playing like he is in his 20s
unbelievable.

 

[sanavasaraja]

To clear up the matter...

 

[Tinykin]

Hawk-Eye

This is one more piece of supporting evidence for a TT version of Hawk-Eye.
https://www.hawkeyeinnovations.com/sports/tennis

 

[Tinykin]

BTW, a question came up in a longtime ago thread (can anyone find it?) about such a situation. Whose point if the ball bounces on the table then hits the net and the player strikes the ball for a 'winner'?
In the thread, a poster pointed out that in tennis the ball would be regarded as being dead once it hit the net. Does the same apply to TT?

 

[Atas Newton]

This is one more piece of supporting evidence for a TT version of Hawk-Eye.
https://www.hawkeyeinnovations.com/sports/tennis

a hawk-eye type solution for table tennis would be very cheap: one small microphone attached to the table surface. It will pick every edge ball and it's as reliable as it gets. No idea why we haven't seen such "advanced" technolodgy implemented yet, at least in bigger tournaments.

 

[Garrison]

BTW, a question came up in a longtime ago thread (can anyone find it?) about such a situation. Whose point if the ball bounces on the table then hits the net and the player strikes the ball for a 'winner'?
In the thread, a poster pointed out that in tennis the ball would be regarded as being dead once it hit the net. Does the same apply to TT?

What do you mean by that? The ball always has to touch your table once before making the shot. It's not like in tennis where you can make volleys

 

[NextLevel]

a hawk-eye type solution for table tennis would be very cheap: one small microphone attached to the table surface. It will pick every edge ball and it's as reliable as it gets. No idea why we haven't seen such "advanced" technolodgy implemented yet, at least in bigger tournaments.

And false positives won't be picked up by this microphone?

 

[yogi_bear]

it hit the table first so it was LGY's point, this is also due to the ball hitting the net assembly..l

 

[JST]

it hit the table first so it was LGY's point, this is also due to the ball hitting the net assembly..l

BTW, a question came up in a longtime ago thread (can anyone find it?) about such a situation. Whose point if the ball bounces on the table then hits the net and the player strikes the ball for a 'winner'?
In the thread, a poster pointed out that in tennis the ball would be regarded as being dead once it hit the net. Does the same apply to TT?

Whole net construction is considered a net and ball can bounce it any number of times in any sequence. The only thing which matters are ball touches table and other things. So in this case if we all agree that it went from LGY to net then Timo's side of the table (1st bounce), then to net construction and then (this is important and probably evident both by slow motion video above and by angle of the ball trajectory which was straight from the table towards the referee) another bounce to Donic table's construction (not the surface but that doesn't matter, it's a touch and in table tennis you have just 4 types of things: table surface, net, player's bat+hand up to the wrist and finally everything else) then it was already LGY's point at that 2nd bounce (because it was like it would already hit the ground).

Do I understand it correctly?

 

[izra]

so the ball touched the net, then hit the table, then the net (post) and timo hit it after that... i went through the ITTF rules and could not find any reason to give the point to LGY. can someone offer some more insight?

 

[JST]

No no no after the last net in your sequence there was one more bounce on table construction, see the slow motion once again. That's the reason why ball went so far from the table (from the net construction only it would go straight down or towards Timo) and that's why the ball went to LGY's score.

 

[Atas Newton]

And false positives won't be picked up by this microphone?

I'm having a hard time imagining what could possibly be a false positive here. Different sounds look pretty distinct in the waveform, couple that with a video replay timing and it should be extremely clear if the ball touched the edge or not.
ps: to clarify, the microphone will pick up sounds propagating through the table itslef, while having negligible sensitivity to outside noise.

 

[NextLevel]

I'm having a hard time imagining what could possibly be a false positive here. Different sounds look pretty distinct in the waveform, couple that with a video replay timing and it should be extremely clear if the ball touched the edge or not.
ps: to clarify, the microphone will pick up sounds propagating through the table itslef, while having negligible sensitivity to outside noise.

Even Hawkeye has false positives, it is just that they have tested and accepted the false positives since they find the accuracy rage acceptable and better than leaving it up to refs. False positive is not usually known until you do the actual testing you will be surprised at what can make errors if you want to use sound and not visual examination.

 

[Atas Newton]

Even Hawkeye has false positives, it is just that they have tested and accepted the false positives since they find the accuracy rage acceptable and better than leaving it up to refs. False positive is not usually known until you do the actual testing you will be surprised at what can make errors if you want to use sound and not visual examination.

comparing this with hawkeye is pointless since the technologies have nothing in common. That's like saying "sandwich you're eating can misfire because rifles do all the time", makes no sense. Sounds that travel within a solid medium have orders of magnitude higher ampltiude than those traveling through air, if you pick them up with a microphone directly in contact with the said solid. If you hit the stand holding a mic it will peak like crazy, never in a million years would it produce a false positive. Every bounce of the ball will produce a spike and that's about it, you simply observe if there's a spike at the moment when the ball passes the edge, that simple. Hawkeye's error is due to the camera resolution being limited and visual recognition techniques having statistical nature, none of that is present when you're dealing with sound.