Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Der_Echte]

Oh yeah he can. But your post also made me realize that I wrote: attach third ball. ATTACK. Don't attach third ball. But do attack it.

Truthfully, attack the serve should be on there. But Der has some other tricks like, how to push the ball and vary the spin to fool the opponent. Those would also help a person's play skills go way up. Worth including those. But, I have a feeling, grip pressure will be all over Der's TT coaching. So......

Sure, grip pressure is one of my standard explanations of how to affect the outgoing ball.

The post where I listed all those things to discuss on a thread is exactly that, stuff to discuss on a coaching thread I will make later.

The kind of stuff Carl is looking for is an assessment, training plan, and strategic goal achievement plan.

Strategic goals (for the sake of TTDers who do not understand my terminology) are things to achieve or be able to perform way down the road several levels later, but are beneficial to begin training much earlier. eg - begin to learn pushing short/tight at USATT 1300 level, so that when player is approaching 2000 level, they can execute the shot or require less training to get needed performance.

 

[Der_Echte]

I spent much time going over 3 pages of what player should expect from coach and the fundamental things in each area that will be basic developmental areas.

Among all that lengthy admin time counted as lesson (let's call it consulting and a way better value than drills for right now) was a promise to assess the player and provide a detailed training plan with developmental goals and benchmarks.

We ended up only doing table stuff for 30 minutes of the allotted one hour as we had to go over admin notes and change locations once.

I spent time assessing the player's shot making abilities and combined with what I have already seen from the player, I know where he stands and what he has to develop.

Fortunately (or unfortunately) there are so many areas that need to grow to a functional level and then more later to make the player solidly and incrementally grow.

I informed the player that an effective measure of whether the coach is worth paying is that after a reasonable time (say one year) of lessons, the player should measurably advance in play level (minimum 1-2 levels form a low 1000s USATT level). My personal expectations for this player are higher for one year. I may coach this player for one more lesson or 100 more lessons. Who knows. I told him that I am like his Kleenex tissue - you use it to plow your nose when needed and throw away when you want to.

He will get a bargain for the first lesson he did with me, the assessment, developmental play, and strategic goal implementation will be a detailed document and a historical reference point in his development... worth WAY more than the cost of the lesson. That is a consulting value. many coaches will string out a player and not provide the detailed plan or the purpose, direction, and motivation.

I asked him to consider joining TT forums and share/ask questions, it helps motivate.

 

[Der_Echte]

… But, I have a feeling, grip pressure will be all over Der's TT coaching. So......

What do ya know...

The last 3 minutes of the lesson, I asked the player to let me know one thing he wanted to work on shortly. He asked me how to respond in a non-passive way to an incoming heavier topspin ball.

Amazingly enough, ONE of the ways to cope with that kind of ball is to use a short stroke, direct path to the ball with a VERY LOOSE GRIP to go through and over the ball. Think of a 20 percent power shot or less.

The loose grip and a slow short stroke with loose grip will catch the ball, hold it a tad longer, and the positive loose grip stroke will "eat" and overcome the ball's spin with ease to produce a slow o medium pace countershot with a little more spin than a drive unless the grip was MINUS kinda loose.

Once I could get the player to NOT tighten up arm and grip when seeing the BIG stroke that produces the heavy spin, I could get him to softly hit through... and when he placed it to my wide FH corner, it was a pressure shot of its own done with such ease. Unfortunately, he tightened up more often than he loosened up before impact...

Still, that player fully understands that there is a shot he already has that can overcome even Der_Echte heavy topspin shots if he keeps position and doesn't freek out / tighten up.

 

[yoass]

5. Attack the elbow.

6. When unable/insufficiently confident to put real pressure on the opponent, or not in full control over placement, aim for the crossover point (somewhere near the middle).

This basically is just a ploy to keep the ball in play without giving the opponent an immediate scoring opportunity. It helps keep the ball on the table in service reception, if you're having trouble dealing with sidespin mainly; and perhaps more importantly, it minimizes the angles for the opponent to make.

 

[mart1nandersson]

One other thing about him, he warned up for literally hours. He did like an hour of stretching, he even used golf balls to massage the soles of his feet. Meanwhile one of his opponents warmed up with a cigarette outside. Very professional in his preparation.

He looked to be in excellent physical condition. His footwork was really good and he always seemed to be where the ball was. Very entertaining to see him go FH loop, BH loop, BH chop, FH loop. He seemed to have all the time in the world even though the tempo was insane.

 

[starsky27]

6. When unable/insufficiently confident to put real pressure on the opponent, or not in full control over placement, aim for the crossover point (somewhere near the middle).

This basically is just a ploy to keep the ball in play without giving the opponent an immediate scoring opportunity. It helps keep the ball on the table in service reception, if you're having trouble dealing with sidespin mainly; and perhaps more importantly, it minimizes the angles for the opponent to make.

That is great advice especially when returning sidespin serves. It really helped me get more balls on the table when first trying to figure out these serves.
In fact I picked up that tip from the TT academy on here.

 

[FruitLoop]

6. When unable/insufficiently confident to put real pressure on the opponent, or not in full control over placement, aim for the crossover point (somewhere near the middle).

This basically is just a ploy to keep the ball in play without giving the opponent an immediate scoring opportunity. It helps keep the ball on the table in service reception, if you're having trouble dealing with sidespin mainly; and perhaps more importantly, it minimizes the angles for the opponent to make.

I slightly disagree with this in that it is more than a ploy to stay in the point and not put real pressure on, a good attack to the elbow vs many players is basically the most pressure they can face outside edge balls or something. That's how weak their crossover is. This might not be true at pro level but even for pros in certain scenarios right at the body is the pressure shot.

 

[yoass]

I slightly disagree with this in that it is more than a ploy to stay in the point and not put real pressure on, a good attack to the elbow vs many players is basically the most pressure they can face outside edge balls or something. That's how weak their crossover is. This might not be true at pro level but even for pros in certain scenarios right at the body is the pressure shot.

Understood, point taken. If you're in control, the crossover point (elbow) is nearly always an excellent option.

I was deliberately a bit more vague. I'm not always able to do pinpoint accurate placements, not when under pressure and especially not when receiving uncomfortable serves. The elbow is good, but even if you can't find that exact spot going roughly through the middle still better than seeking steep angles. Not just because of the high error rate (missing the table entirely when misjudging sidespin), but also because when you choose a wide angle on a shot without sufficient pressure, you're giving a very wide open field to your opponent that he can exploit forcefully and smartly (extreme wide angles, but also in-body or counter-momentum placements; and/or raw power).

 

[NextLevel]

Bot deleted.

 

[mart1nandersson]

Finally a book worth reading.

 

[NDH]

Why does it look like he has a tiny bat? haha!

 

[mart1nandersson]

Why does it look like he has a tiny bat? haha!

Hahaha! I screwed up the angle of the photo. Great book.

 

[yoass]

View attachment 18640

Finally a book worth reading.

“The fast world champion”. Is that an autobiography, written by Persson himself?

Feel free to do a review. TTD can do with a Books review section.

 

[mart1nandersson]

“The kind world champion” is the rough translation. It’s written by a journalist but it’s his official biography. Got it from my mother as an early birthday gift. She had already browsed through it and seen that it’s got plenty of Stellan in it (which ticks all boxes for her). I’ll post a mini review once I’ve read it all.

 

[yoass]

I’m a closet Stellan Bengtsson worshipper too, secretly even ascribing some of the greatness of the Appelgren, Tickan, Lindh, Persson and Waldner (apologies to those I left out) generation to him.

Interested in your minireview. I can sort of read, but not speak, Sverige, but probably not enough for such a book.

 

[thekleifheit13]

Played last night and Monday night at the UAkron club after taking 2 weeks off for an infected tattoo...Ended up playing better Monday than I ever have I think. It felt like I was on autopilot and my strokes felt natural and kind of effortless. I'm still very impressed at the progress they've made - the bottom three players on the team are at least 2, possibly 3 levels better than they were in November. The bottom two wouldn't get a game off me when we started and now we tend to split matches 50/50. They're also super motivated to improve, which is refreshing to see. Spent most of the practice drilling the players' weak points, resulting in me receiving serves from the team for an hour or so. Not complaining about that, it's definitely one of my worst qualities. Ended with a match against the other coach, a USATT 1900+ hitter/blocker. He was having an off day but I'm still happy to have taken him to 9 in two games and kept the third close.

Last night was a different story and I just didn't have my game. Loop strokes felt really stiff and footwork was off so I found myself relying on my serves wayyyyy too much. Still had a blast and tried to help the lower guys on the team work on their serves, though.

How do you guys cope with days when your mechanics/footwork aren't in form?

 

[NextLevel]

How do you guys cope with days when your mechanics/footwork aren't in form?

The answer is different if you play every day vs if you play once a week or less etc. If you don't play a lot you have to just accept it and try to play more. If you play a lot, you have to figure out how to get into the game until it has a chance to change. The thing is that if you do not play or train a lot, expecting stable performance or strokes is like believing in miracles. Even people who play a lot have off days. They just have more to benchmark and adjust with and likely less variable performance as well.

 

[thekleifheit13]

The answer is different if you play every day vs if you play once a week or less etc. If you don't play a lot you have to just accept it and try to play more. If you play a lot, you have to figure out how to get into the game until it has a chance to change. The thing is that if you do not play or train a lot, expecting stable performance or strokes is like believing in miracles. Even people who play a lot have off days. They just have more to benchmark and adjust with and likely less variable performance as well.

That's a very good point. I'm kind of between the two different types of players you talk about. Robot at home 2-3 days a week and club twice a week. Physical inconsistency is something I've dealt with my whole life in every sport I've ever done. Just didn't know if anyone had a thought process they use to get their head back on top of their shoulders.

 

[NextLevel]

That's a very good point. I'm kind of between the two different types of players you talk about. Robot at home 2-3 days a week and club twice a week. Physical inconsistency is something I've dealt with my whole life in every sport I've ever done. Just didn't know if anyone had a thought process they use to get their head back on top of their shoulders.

Robots are okay for footwork drills and specific aspects of spin control. Not so good for other things. The sooner you find a hitting partner the better.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

This has to be a bot - I know because I wrote this post originally.

Thanks for this. Can you delete your quote from his post so that we don't let any of him stay on the forum.