More Pros not enjoying WTT and its expensive Costs

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Last year an African player talked about how bad WTT has become for him (compared to ITTF's World Tours/Pro Tours), how expensive it is to stay at the "official hotels" and that his family/partner can't join, as its double the cost for the 2nd person, while sharing his room (I travel a lot, sharing a room is not 2 times the price in these 5 star hotels).

Well, lots of forum members didn't take it seriously. Some said that the African player isn't a top player in the world..... (they obviously struggle to see through the person talking, rather than was caught stuck with player's levels)

However, through my circles, I have heard so many active player complaining, here is an European nation now complaining.
I do wish the world is fair, but it is reality that a complaint from Poland (Europe) will have more weight than a complaint from Senegal (Africa)

Ny struktur har gjort vejen til toppen dyr og besværlig – og helt umulig for de næstbedste

Internationale turneringer er blevet så dyre at deltage i, at de for hovedparten af bordtennisspillerne er en underskudsforretning.

politiken.dk

It is true that if you are seeded 9, you could be placed against seed 1 in that first round, while 63 can be placed against 64.
Your price money is on progression, and there is no protection based on seeds other than top 8 seeds.

Also, lower world ranked players CANNOT play in high prize money tournaments. They need to build up the ranking points from feeders. But how many feeders win equates to a top 8 finish in terms of points and prize moneys?
Feeders is expensive to play in, while having almost zero prize money (and world ranking points).
IE: Feeder Dusseldorf winner is USD600.
Star Contender Goa R48 is USD900
Smash QR1 is USD 1300


It is true, the incentive for players out side top 50 is little to non-existent.
The Polish players called it even as high as top 20.

Ranking point is a ugly subject now, with winning an World Champ (2000 points) impossible to catch up with, or the world teams now have zero individual players point (so while bother taking part)

While fans enjoy your top 10s only, but top 21 to top 100 is equally important for the sport. So I hope people look beyond "playing levels", else the sport will have a bumping ride.

 

[NextLevel]

Article: WTT criticism from European national team

I've translated an article appearing today in the Danish national newspaper Politiken where national...

mytabletennis.net

For people who may want to know what was said.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

From June last year.
IG post had so much support from world top players

 

[lodro]

Yes, ITTF has gone "business" by creating WTT.
Once things are run as a business it will all come down to supply and demand.
Players, human-beings, are reduced to a marketable commodity.
How many people will pay to watch ?
How much will they be ready to pay - to watch whom ?

Where has the fun gone ????????

 

[Dominikk85]

I think table tennis might end up like tennis where you have to bring in money to play until you reach like top50 or so.

in tennis is is well known that playing the tour while being outside the top100 is a net loss game, i.e prize money is not enough to cover the big costs of traveling, paying coaches, PTs and so on.

That means in tennis you can only make it if you have rich parents or private sponsors.

This could end up in table tennis like this too where Prize Money gets even more concentrated at the top while the lower level players scramble to get by.

I read at the lower level tournaments of WTT you basically have to make like the semi final to even even get to break even.

Not sure how sustainable that is. Will lower level players even keep playing tournaments or just focus on their league.

That kinda sucks mostly for the small nations. When you are a very good but not great German player who is like top150 in the world level he can just play their league and ignore WTT because they likely will never play GNT anyway but if you are from Africa and your country doesn't have a paying league and you maybe want to qualify for an European league or even maybe the Olympics then you have to go through the tournaments and probably bring some money with you which many can't.

That is not helping growing the game in non traditional table tennis countries.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I read at the lower level tournaments of WTT you basically have to make like the semi final to even even get to break even.

Well, I shared in OP, feeder you get like 500 or 600 USD if you WIN the feeder tournament.
That prize money is not even enough to cover the costs of living in those hotels, yet alone airfare to get there.

Not sure how sustainable that is. Will lower level players even keep playing tournaments or just focus on their league.

That kinda sucks mostly for the small nations. When you are a very good but not great German player who is like top150 in the world level he can just play their league and ignore WTT because they likely will never play GNT anyway but if you are from Africa and your country doesn't have a paying league and you maybe want to qualify for an European league or even maybe the Olympics then you have to go through the tournaments and probably bring some money with you which many can't.

This is a catch 22. You need world ranking to get into leagues, especially for those that are not in Europe and want to get into the leagues in Europe.
Teams won't just hire a no one - unless that no one is connected.
So most players will want to earn some world rankings, and then can move into higher division leagues.
or do what a lot of former Chinese provincial players do - go into the low leagues and work up the ladder.

That is not helping growing the game in non traditional table tennis countries.

True. Like Senegal number 1 is not bothered any more. So we lost 1 country
Sounds like Denmark too...

 

[Wrighty67]

Last year an African player talked about how bad WTT has become for him (compared to ITTF's World Tours/Pro Tours), how expensive it is to stay at the "official hotels" and that his family/partner can't join, as its double the cost for the 2nd person, while sharing his room (I travel a lot, sharing a room is not 2 times the price in these 5 star hotels).

Well, lots of forum members didn't take it seriously. Some said that the African player isn't a top player in the world..... (they obviously struggle to see through the person talking, rather than was caught stuck with player's levels)

However, through my circles, I have heard so many active player complaining, here is an European nation now complaining.
I do wish the world is fair, but it is reality that a complaint from Poland (Europe) will have more weight than a complaint from Senegal (Africa)

Ny struktur har gjort vejen til toppen dyr og besværlig – og helt umulig for de næstbedste

Internationale turneringer er blevet så dyre at deltage i, at de for hovedparten af bordtennisspillerne er en underskudsforretning.

politiken.dk

It is true that if you are seeded 9, you could be placed against seed 1 in that first round, while 63 can be placed against 64.
Your price money is on progression, and there is no protection based on seeds other than top 8 seeds.

Also, lower world ranked players CANNOT play in high prize money tournaments. They need to build up the ranking points from feeders. But how many feeders win equates to a top 8 finish in terms of points and prize moneys?
Feeders is expensive to play in, while having almost zero prize money (and world ranking points).
IE: Feeder Dusseldorf winner is USD600.
Star Contender Goa R48 is USD900
Smash QR1 is USD 1300


It is true, the incentive for players out side top 50 is little to non-existent.
The Polish players called it even as high as top 20.

Ranking point is a ugly subject now, with winning an World Champ (2000 points) impossible to catch up with, or the world teams now have zero individual players point (so while bother taking part)

While fans enjoy your top 10s only, but top 21 to top 100 is equally important for the sport. So I hope people look beyond "playing levels", else the sport will have a bumping ride.

Those prizes for winning a feeder or star contender are shocking - I often wonder how someone like Paul Drinkhall can manage to play tournaments like Dusselforf feeder he's just gone out of given the costs of travel and accommodation etc and the limited support he gets.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Those prizes for winning a feeder or star contender are shocking - I often wonder how someone like Paul Drinkhall can manage to play tournaments like Dusselforf feeder he's just gone out of given the costs of travel and accommodation etc and the limited support he gets.

I just learnt Lily Zhang paid USD300 entry fee, made the singles final of a feeder and her prize money was USD275 lol
Feeder can't feed your entry fee, yet alone your tummy

Sadly, top players aim for feeder to get that "big" 150 points. It supposed to be an easy 150, since lower ranked , in star contender could be out in the qualification rounds against another high level, lower ranked.

Look at what 150 points can do for Paul. Even a 2nd place (105) or SF finish (55) will push him up a lot.
The trick is to find a feeder or contender that no one wants to go to (Africa/South America has easier ones)

For example, the Contender in Durban, South Africa, early Jan (10 Jan) had Hugo and some 2nd tier Chinese. If Paul went and made SF (which he could of done), that would have been 140 points, and from wr80 he would be wr60

 

[Wrighty67]

I just learnt Lily Zhang paid USD300 entry fee, made the singles final of a feeder and her prize money was USD275 lol
Feeder can't feed your entry fee, yet alone your tummy

Sadly, top players aim for feeder to get that "big" 150 points. It supposed to be an easy 150, since lower ranked , in star contender could be out in the qualification rounds against another high level, lower ranked.

Look at what 150 points can do for Paul. Even a 2nd place (105) or SF finish (55) will push him up a lot.
The trick is to find a feeder or contender that no one wants to go to (Africa/South America has easier ones)

For example, the Contender in Durban, South Africa, early Jan (10 Jan) had Hugo and some 2nd tier Chinese. If Paul went and made SF (which he could of done), that would have been 140 points, and from wr80 he would be wr60

View attachment 24499

That's very interesting - so in effect Paul is paying for the opportunity to bump his ranking points which lead to better tournaments. So his SF loss today at Dusseldorf will at least get him some points.

 

[thomas.pong]

This system is definitely cringe-worthy and hurts the sport.

 

[AchyGeorge]

Given the above Is it any wonder this kind of thing happens? It’s a real shame but there just isn’t much money for players that are only exceptional, it seems that only the best of the best can make it pay.

https://www.tabletennisengland.co.uk/tsaptsinos-steps-back-from-playing-to-focus-on-tv-career/

 

[Gtsnake]

Let's face it Table Tennis is not exactly a rich sport. There's only so much money being paid by sponsors and so many people interested in it around the world. Compared to golf where there are millions(billions?) in sponsorships and the top 1000 tour players are rich. Flying around in their private jets and multimillion dollar homes.

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

Let's face it Table Tennis is not exactly a rich sport. There's only so much money being paid by sponsors and so many people interested in it around the world. Compared to golf where there are millions(billions?) in sponsorships and the top 1000 tour players are rich. Flying around in their private jets and multimillion dollar homes.

No one expects table tennis to be on the same level as golf or tennis in terms of prize money. But WTT is doing such a poor job of marketing table tennis it's laughable (cryable?). For cryin' out loud, table tennis with it's long history is getting surpassed by pickleball:

https://www.thedinkpickleball.com/l...verage in 2022, PPA,increase by 63.9% in 2023.

On average in 2022, PPA Touring Pros earned $96,000 from tour payouts alone, with top athletes taking home upwards of $200,000. With the 2023 season’s prize purse increase, the PPA Tour anticipates average player earnings to increase by 63.9% in 2023.

 

[Wrighty67]

Given the above Is it any wonder this kind of thing happens? It’s a real shame but there just isn’t much money for players that are only exceptional, it seems that only the best of the best can make it pay.

https://www.tabletennisengland.co.uk/tsaptsinos-steps-back-from-playing-to-focus-on-tv-career/

Very true, a great shame

 

[Der_Echte]

This system is definitely cringe-worthy and hurts the sport.

Yes, if it is not economically sustainable by the players, it will fizzle out soon enough... but with many bad consequences.

 

[lodro]

Yes, if it is not economically sustainable by the players, it will fizzle out soon enough... but with many bad consequences.

Weeeeell, it is not really a big thing, is it ? It is only a ping pong game or two.
To put it in perspective, compare it with the problematic of hunger in the world and global warming, it is no biggie really 😂

 

[thomas.pong]

Yes, if it is not economically sustainable by the players, it will fizzle out soon enough... but with many bad consequences.

Several French pros have complained about this too and about losing money.

 

[Der_Echte]

Weeeeell, it is not really a big thing, is it ? It is only a ping pong game or two.
To put it in perspective, compare it with the problematic of hunger in the world and global warming, it is no biggie really 😂

I know you were joking, but for the record, it is a big thing when some higher ups try to take control of a system and force out people who have trained and professionally qualified themselves to be able to participate in an occupation that makes them enough money to take care of self and family, if even only barely... now the ones forced out have to find a new way to take care of self and family without having the govt (no, the PEOPLE WHO WORK AND EARN A LIVING)... and many are not in a position to immediately acquire skills in demand that will pay if even a fraction.

Some of these will have govt take care of them and these jokers are pretty much forcing socialism on people, which is bad, it never worked anywhere it was implemented, except for those few who are in charge of it.

On the other hand, if the current TT system that is controlled and managed by these few geniuses fails, there is no socialist govt bailout and the outfit fails... and if there is a market, a more efficient one takes it place and is better for all stakeholders... this is the way of free markets... but if some incompetent leaders of outfits fail, they negatively affect their stakeholders - the players for one and it is bad jujus to lead and fail like that.

Ultimately, free markets restore things and even make them better with enough time, but the damage done by poor leaders of outfits is harmful for more than a few months.

The alternative is to have govt intervention, and that is socialism and it simply does not work.

 

[lodro]

I know you were joking, but for the record, it is a big thing when some higher ups try to take control of a system and force out people who have trained and professionally qualified themselves to be able to participate in an occupation that makes them enough money to take care of self and family, if even only barely... now the ones forced out have to find a new way to take care of self and family without having the govt (no, the PEOPLE WHO WORK AND EARN A LIVING)... and many are not in a position to immediately acquire skills in demand that will pay if even a fraction.

Some of these will have govt take care of them and these jokers are pretty much forcing socialism on people, which is bad, it never worked anywhere it was implemented, except for those few who are in charge of it.

On the other hand, if the current TT system that is controlled and managed by these few geniuses fails, there is no socialist govt bailout and the outfit fails... and if there is a market, a more efficient one takes it place and is better for all stakeholders... this is the way of free markets... but if some incompetent leaders of outfits fail, they negatively affect their stakeholders - the players for one and it is bad jujus to lead and fail like that.

Ultimately, free markets restore things and even make them better with enough time, but the damage done by poor leaders of outfits is harmful for more than a few months.

The alternative is to have govt intervention, and that is socialism and it simply does not work.

You seem confused.
On one hand you try to punch down socialism ( probably confusing it with communism) on the other hand you are claiming that the free market is restoring things and making it all good again.

But is it not the free market that is pointing with a greedy finger at the very top players going : you and you and etc. can stay , we pay you well because you will make us money, but you other lot can bugger off . ????????

I have no fix to suggest, it is what it is.
At my level I am just pissed of that half of my club fees are passed on to the National Association and likely some of it to the ITTF.............for WHAT ???

 

[brokenball]

At my level I am just pissed of that half of my club fees are passed on to the National Association and likely some of it to the ITTF.............for WHAT ???

Why? I doubt anything like that happens at our local club. Most of the money goes to paying the rent for the space to play. Some for balls and some for tables and repairs.