WTT Finals Women Nagoya 2023

[zeio]

Mixed zone interviews after R16
SYS, says Miwa has improved a lot since their first encounter at WTT SCT Lanzhou 2023, that she is young and her room for growth as well as her technical framework are still in developement, that she has made adjustment and changed the tactics this time. On the difficulty in this match, she says she didn't feel all that comfortable keeping up with the pace, that Miwa's game has a unique rhythm, that she kept trying to pedal (note: not certain) the point (the specific point in the trajectory of the ball after bounce, think of it as timing) that she had been losing and feeling uncomfortable with, but at 0:3 of G5 coach Ma told her to have more faith in herself and just play the way she felt comfortable with, and from there she fought point by point after coming out of the TO.
https://weibo.com/7556183438/Nxhqx6QKA
CM
https://weibo.com/7556183438/Nxh20itm5
CXT
https://weibo.com/7556183438/Nxgwa6vEx
ZR
https://weibo.com/7556183438/Nxf8Mn4nS
WMY
https://weibo.com/7556183438/NxeW5nNsB
WYD
https://weibo.com/7556183438/NxedZfUUw

Group photo
https://weibo.com/7556183438/Nx6O6sHr3
Diaz's, HY's, YXX's, Szocs's photo shoots
https://weibo.com/7556183438/Nx6Ho2s8U
SYS's photo shoots
https://weibo.com/7556183438/Nx6vpgYtB
WMY's photo shoots
https://weibo.com/7556183438/Nx6pldXAZ
CM's photo shoots
https://weibo.com/7556183438/Nx6dajqeb
WYD's photo shoots
https://weibo.com/7556183438/Nx64Xi76s
SYS and Diaz bonding
https://weibo.com/7556183438/Nx5Y99lrC
CXT's photo shoots
https://weibo.com/7556183438/Nx5UJaCTQ
QTY's photo shoots
https://weibo.com/7556183438/Nx5OLm1Q0
ZR's photo shoots
https://weibo.com/7556183438/Nx5C5D73h
SYB, Joo Cheonhui's photo shoots
https://weibo.com/7556183438/Nx5mi8bIf
Hayata's, Ito's, Harimoto's photo shoots
https://weibo.com/7556183438/Nx5kWqaFN
Group photo before Nagoya Castle
https://weibo.com/7556183438/Nx54z7EKR
Players visiting Nagoya Castle
https://weibo.com/7556183438/Nx4DCh7UU
SYS and Diaz giving an English lesson
https://weibo.com/7556183438/Nx4hPiP75

 

[turbozed]

It's mostly a matter of training and technique. I've watched some Fang Bo videos where he talks about this. He uses some examples, like LJK who focuses on spin, has a very stable shot and is less likely to make mistakes, which tends to do well in high pressure situations. He's also talked about LGY and Togami in separate videos and pointed out how their reliance on speed makes them more prone to mistakes especially in tight situations.

I don't think that explains all of it. Clearly the CNT players are consistent, but I'm talking about how they are able to reverse the momentum of their opponent during key moments and inflection points. Technique is a part of it, but the follow up question to your answer is to ask how and why the technique differs from the periods where their opponent seems to have the advantage versus when they are able to close out a match. Clearly something is different when the dynamic completely shifts.

If their technique is just slightly better, then you'd more often see a consistent advantage that doesn't result in so many momentum shifts where the CNT player eventually comes out on top. It's a pattern that happens often enough that it suggests some other factor (or factors) is involved.

 

[dingyibvs]

I don't think that explains all of it. Clearly the CNT players are consistent, but I'm talking about how they are able to reverse the momentum of their opponent during key moments and inflection points. Technique is a part of it, but the follow up question to your answer is to ask how and why the technique differs from the periods where their opponent seems to have the advantage versus when they are able to close out a match. Clearly something is different when the dynamic completely shifts.

If their technique is just slightly better, then you'd more often see a consistent advantage that doesn't result in so many momentum shifts where the CNT player eventually comes out on top. It's a pattern that happens often enough that it suggests some other factor (or factors) is involved.

That's the thing, their techniques don't change. If anything, they might increase spin. For example, Fang Bo asked the audience what they think matters during these critical junctures while commentating on the LJK vs Togami match, and his answer was mistakes. The Chinese players play as usual, the opponent makes mistakes. Togami lost that last set because he couldn't make routine BH opening loops against LJK's pushes.

In other words, the Chinese just fall back on their training and technique, while the opponent makes mistakes. The Chinese don't step it up, the opponents step it down.

 

[turbozed]

That's the thing, their techniques don't change. If anything, they might increase spin. For example, Fang Bo asked the audience what they think matters during these critical junctures while commentating on the LJK vs Togami match, and his answer was mistakes. The Chinese players play as usual, the opponent makes mistakes. Togami lost that last set because he couldn't make routine BH opening loops against LJK's pushes.

In other words, the Chinese just fall back on their training and technique, while the opponent makes mistakes. The Chinese don't step it up, the opponents step it down.

If that's the case, what would your explanation be for all CNT opponents seemingly deciding on their own to 'step it down' in crucial moments? Why change anything if it was working perfectly fine before the time out or costume change of the CNT player?

Honestly, if the CNT did find some sort of secret sauce for turning up their consistency and gameplay in crucial moments, I don't think they'd be sharing it with the rest of the world. Better off to let everyone think the other player is just mentally weak and making mistakes. But it happens so often now that I'm less inclined to believe that's the only explanation. On the other hand, I generally don't believe that you can keep training secrets in this day and age, so I don't fully believe in cheat code tactics either.

 

[Shine]

But the Japanese team speak of their intentions to defeat China all the time which is totally fine, They practice for it and plan strategies around it. Why do we see their orientation as benign?? Other teams do the same without the lip service too.

They speak of their goals and missions that ways, you can't male fun of people for agreeing with how you see yourself when you haven't been diagnosed with anything dangerous.

 

[Shine]

Zhang Rui has really balled out this year, and barring some loses to FSQ in finals should be higher up in the rankings, And she's relatively young!!, one can only wonder what could have been/ could be if she left the Chinese team. Especially for the Worlds and Olympics.
She's always smiley and playful, seems she's contented with her lots. Such is life.

 

[dingyibvs]

If that's the case, what would your explanation be for all CNT opponents seemingly deciding on their own to 'step it down' in crucial moments? Why change anything if it was working perfectly fine before the time out or costume change of the CNT player?

Honestly, if the CNT did find some sort of secret sauce for turning up their consistency and gameplay in crucial moments, I don't think they'd be sharing it with the rest of the world. Better off to let everyone think the other player is just mentally weak and making mistakes. But it happens so often now that I'm less inclined to believe that's the only explanation. On the other hand, I generally don't believe that you can keep training secrets in this day and age, so I don't fully believe in cheat code tactics either.

The secret sauce is training and technique. When you have the best of that you can just fall back to it during crucial moments. The opponents don't have that option because their training and technique is usually not as vigorous/good.

The other option by opponents is to try to "step up" their game. A lot of the time they were able to get to a decider against a CNT member because they were successful thus far in the game in "stepping up" in the first place, so that's an option many choose during crucial moments. But stepping up means taking riskier, lower margin of error shots, and if you're nervous that'd affect your performance more so than attempting to execute routine training that you've done many times more.

 

[superbackhand]

a really good tip from my coach: in tight match, trust your training

 

[blahness]

If that's the case, what would your explanation be for all CNT opponents seemingly deciding on their own to 'step it down' in crucial moments? Why change anything if it was working perfectly fine before the time out or costume change of the CNT player?

Honestly, if the CNT did find some sort of secret sauce for turning up their consistency and gameplay in crucial moments, I don't think they'd be sharing it with the rest of the world. Better off to let everyone think the other player is just mentally weak and making mistakes. But it happens so often now that I'm less inclined to believe that's the only explanation. On the other hand, I generally don't believe that you can keep training secrets in this day and age, so I don't fully believe in cheat code tactics either.

From my watching of many CNT matches, it's pretty much new serve/receive placements / spin + putting extreme spin in the loops to really make sure they land - also this creates some rhythm disruptions for the opponents because they're not used to it.

A lot of CNT opponents rely on speed and they really don't have this gear of extreme spin to rely on. Partly it's the training but also the equipment, boosted Hurricanes are notorious for extreme spin generation, above all other rubbers.

 

[blahness]

That's the thing, their techniques don't change. If anything, they might increase spin. For example, Fang Bo asked the audience what they think matters during these critical junctures while commentating on the LJK vs Togami match, and his answer was mistakes. The Chinese players play as usual, the opponent makes mistakes. Togami lost that last set because he couldn't make routine BH opening loops against LJK's pushes.

In other words, the Chinese just fall back on their training and technique, while the opponent makes mistakes. The Chinese don't step it up, the opponents step it down.

It wasn't just a normal push though, it was loaded with a tremendous amount of backspin (look at the wrist acceleration in those few pushes). LJK didn't push with such intent before the last few points. I bet Togami never really trained to loop a deep push with so much underspin on it (again boosted Hurricane is just different in terms of pushing), and unfortunately didn't adjust in time (for eg opening the racket angle even more).

 

[dingyibvs]

It wasn't just a normal push though, it was loaded with a tremendous amount of backspin (look at the wrist acceleration in those few pushes). LJK didn't push with such intent before the last few points. I bet Togami never really trained to loop a deep push with so much underspin on it (again boosted Hurricane is just different in terms of pushing), and unfortunately didn't adjust in time (for eg opening the racket angle even more).

It's a pretty simple push, see his first point vs Alexis Lebrun for example:

I mean, it's not the deceptive long push that uses the same starting motion as a short push, but it's still a very commonly executed push.

 

[turbozed]

From my watching of many CNT matches, it's pretty much new serve/receive placements / spin + putting extreme spin in the loops to really make sure they land - also this creates some rhythm disruptions for the opponents because they're not used to it.

A lot of CNT opponents rely on speed and they really don't have this gear of extreme spin to rely on. Partly it's the training but also the equipment, boosted Hurricanes are notorious for extreme spin generation, above all other rubbers.

So are you saying that they only pull these new serve and spin tactics when in tight games and matches (or behind, even) and that's why they seem to get out spots and change momentum? If that's the case, the follow up question would then is: why not just do that the whole match and dominate?

In Miwa vs SYS match, Miwa actually won more total points. However, SYS was able to go on some long winning streaks at key moments (coming back in game 2 and then closing out in game 5). However, if they are changing up their tactics at the right time to force mistakes, and it would only work if not overused, then these are tactical decisions and can't just be attributed to having better technique/training.

 

[igorponger]

THE GIANTESS.
Mima had proved to be far superior to all in every aspect. She needs no more proofs. She is much like Hoolliver the Giant Man in the land of tiny-size lillipootes 😆😆😆

 

[dingyibvs]

So are you saying that they only pull these new serve and spin tactics when in tight games and matches (or behind, even) and that's why they seem to get out spots and change momentum? If that's the case, the follow up question would then is: why not just do that the whole match and dominate?

In Miwa vs SYS match, Miwa actually won more total points. However, SYS was able to go on some long winning streaks at key moments (coming back in game 2 and then closing out in game 5). However, if they are changing up their tactics at the right time to force mistakes, and it would only work if not overused, then these are tactical decisions and can't just be attributed to having better technique/training.

Look at the LJK vs Lebrun match I posted above. 10-9 Lebrun up in the 4th set, a must win for Lebrun, and how did LJK end up winning? A short push attempt by LJK that pops up, common occurrence and if anything a mistake by him, and Lebrun misses a flick. A spinny loop by LJK that Lebrun misses the counter loop on, which started with a service LJK used throughout the match. Then an easy put away missed by Lebrun that started with a not so great BH push by LJK.

LJK didn't make a spectacular play in any of them. At most he had extra spin on that 2nd point, but it was a high loop to a predictable spot. It was really Lebrun's mistakes that doomed him.

 

[blahness]

It's a pretty simple push, see his first point vs Alexis Lebrun for example:

I mean, it's not the deceptive long push that uses the same starting motion as a short push, but it's still a very commonly executed push.

No it's not, the one he did against Alexis was the normal push. The ones he did against Togami in the crucial stages were absolutely loaded with extra wrist acceleration and body usage. Some extra spice... he found Togami's weakness and just continued to exploit it.

 

[blahness]

So are you saying that they only pull these new serve and spin tactics when in tight games and matches (or behind, even) and that's why they seem to get out spots and change momentum? If that's the case, the follow up question would then is: why not just do that the whole match and dominate?

In Miwa vs SYS match, Miwa actually won more total points. However, SYS was able to go on some long winning streaks at key moments (coming back in game 2 and then closing out in game 5). However, if they are changing up their tactics at the right time to force mistakes, and it would only work if not overused, then these are tactical decisions and can't just be attributed to having better technique/training.

Yes that is right. Because pros can adjust to whatever spin you're giving them. So for eg if you invested 100% into a spinny af loop, your opponent probably misses the first 1 or 2 and then adjusts, and then for the rest of the match you're out of gears, and the opponent successfully counters your 100% shot with 50% energy counter, you're gonna be in a bad spot for sure and will get dominated in the rallies.

But it's also a technique and equipment issue. This extra gear in spin is probably only possible with the CNT training and equipment.

 

[fore.n.back]

It wasn't just a normal push though, it was loaded with a tremendous amount of backspin (look at the wrist acceleration in those few pushes). LJK didn't push with such intent before the last few points. I bet Togami never really trained to loop a deep push with so much underspin on it (again boosted Hurricane is just different in terms of pushing), and unfortunately didn't adjust in time (for eg opening the racket angle even more).

Not really, Togami's tendency is to move to the middle table for the BH flick to open the rally, Liang took advantage of that and push deep to his BH corner. If Togami was already stand in that corner he'll surely be able to topspin it

 

[blahness]

Not really, Togami's tendency is to move to the middle table for the BH flick to open the rally, Liang took advantage of that and push deep to his BH corner. If Togami was already stand in that corner he'll surely be able to topspin it

Yes but if it wasn't so spinny he would still be able to make a quality topspin from this worse position. The spin quality + the placement was the killer here.

 

[fore.n.back]

The secret sauce is training and technique. When you have the best of that you can just fall back to it during crucial moments. The opponents don't have that option because their training and technique is usually not as vigorous/good.

The other option by opponents is to try to "step up" their game. A lot of the time they were able to get to a decider against a CNT member because they were successful thus far in the game in "stepping up" in the first place, so that's an option many choose during crucial moments. But stepping up means taking riskier, lower margin of error shots, and if you're nervous that'd affect your performance more so than attempting to execute routine training that you've done many times more.

I bet CNT also does simulation of real-match situation where their player was behind 0-2 (bo5) 0-3 (bo7) and behind during key points

 

[fore.n.back]

And the funny thing is that Togami had also used pushing to conclude the match against Cho Daesong and An Jaehyun in the same tournament, one long and one short, it's crazy that he didn't aware that Liang might use it on him