WTT Singapore Smash 2024 3/7-3/17

[kindof99]

Can both umpires call an illegal serve or just the main umpire? I think WCQ was not called often for illegal serves because he is left handed and the main umpire can't see his serve well. LSD is called a little brother of WCQ, the kiss brother, and as much hated by tieba users.

 

[backspacer]

Can both umpires call an illegal serve or just the main umpire? I think WCQ was not called often for illegal serves because he is left handed and the main umpire can't see his serve well. LSD is called a little brother of WCQ, the kiss brother, and as much hated by tieba users.

Both can.

 

[Shine]

MS R16
Boll 3-1 LSD (-7, -8, 5, -10)

As predicted by some Tieba users, Boll toyed with 小小胖.

LSD style is too formulaic and he's easily tricked on serves. The period for that style to shine ended before the pandemic and somebody else with a similar build already employed it. He doesn't bring anything to the table that differentiates him.

 

[Shine]

WCQ has a bigger-than-average head (East Asians have the biggest head) and so I guess that's why more players find it more annoying.

Despite the hidden advantage, WCQ's game is still vulnerable as he has lost the same amount of foreign matches as FZD in this cycle, IIRC.

Commentator said he had a 91% win rate against non-Chinese in the match against Chengrui. Stat sounds crazy and implausible to me though. There's no way for me to confirm it.
Off the top of my head he lost to LJH, LYJ, TH, JWJ, TY, KK in the last 3 years. I think Fan has lost more.

 

[kindof99]

Commentator said he had a 91% win rate against non-Chinese in the match against Chengrui. Stat sounds crazy and implausible to me though. There's no way for me to confirm it.
Off the top of my head he lost to LJH, LYJ, TH, JWJ, TY, KK in the last 3 years. I think Fan has lost more.

It is said that WCQ usually wears a shirt one size bigger, so he can hide the ball with his shirt as well. You can see that he keeps pulling his shirt during the games all the time. But this is just speculation. Anyway, all his shovel serves are problematic at best.

 

[Vlad Celler]

Curious... How far will they be allowed to go? CXT,QTY?

 

[NextLevel]

For me it's not limited to Wang, but rather any player with a higher level of FH attack.

So what is this list of players he has lost to with a higher level of FH attack? Curious.

 

[NextLevel]

I mean LSD's serves were illegal wdym?

The umpires didn't call them until Boll made it obvious they were. If the umpires hadn't agreed with Boll, then what would have happened? Boll would have missed random serves, lost the match and we would be having a different conversation.

 

[NextLevel]

Goodness! Other than their XD pair which made it to the semifinal, with only 5 months to go, the entire Japan Paris contingent has been wiped out by R16.
Other than Ito…

It's not quite as dire as it looks, nothing wrong with being wiped out by good players and matchup nightmares. And on the women's side, a lot of it was unfortunate friendly fire.

 

[NextLevel]

Is this the event that changes the zeitgeist regarding illegal serves? I've never seen so many lets and faults called by refs for low/not vertical tosses. Some matches I watched had it happen 3 or 4 times. And now we got Bobrow pointing out the problematic tosses of WCQ (of course he had to compliment the serves themselves to sweeten the criticism a bit).

Also, does anyone else think it not coincidental that WCQ comes in with permed extra poofy hair specifically for the highest prize event of the year?

Anyway I'm diggin that this is finally happening. It's not enough to make a difference yet at this point, but mabe it's the start of something.

Edit: Singapore is a city/country that is strictly observant of rules so maybe this might be a one-off thing and we get back to lazy spineless refs after this is done.

Nah, at the grand slams, referee evaluation, especially for referees relatively new to that level, is at its highest. But the problem is that since these things are never made public, no one is held accountable and it is obvious as others have pointed out that between keeping players somewhat happy and bowing to tradition, the WTT is okay with the status quo.

 

[zeio]

The shovel obviously has some sinister purposes behind it.
But this match against Truls, he used his normal pendulum serve throughout and yet Truls was complaining, Is there a possibility that that's just the way he learnt it from the coaches?? Or there's something with the mechanics of the pendulum that makes it difficult to serve cleanly? Maybe he can't really control the rotation of his torso during the service motion and the ball contact is behind his head??
Apart from FZD whose pendulum serve looks clean, his reverse looks iffy to me though. Any east asian pro with very clean Chinese style pendulum serves at the point of contact??

That's what Mizutani touched on in the 3-part interview with TAKAGI Mina - gamesmanship, especially when competing overseas. Players complained even when they could see contact as a way to disrupt him and he used to be affected until he realized they were trying to mess with his mind.

ZJK has a rather clean high-toss pendulum serve. Relatively speaking and on the whole, top players from Japan have cleaner pendulum serves. Maybe it has to do with their BH-oriented tradition. Compared to Ito, Mizutani and M. Yoshimura, Hayata, Hirano and Harimoto siblings have much cleaner pendulum serves. Ishikawa also has a rather clean high-toss pendulum serve.

https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/otherballgame/other/2023/07/21/post_3/?page=4

――その２人は、世界選手権ダーバンの男子ダブルス準々決勝で、相手のベテランのディミトロフ・オフチャロフ選手（ドイツ）から「レシーブの構えに入るのが遅い」と２度指摘され、イエローカードをもらったシーンがありました。あれを機に２人のコンビネーションが崩れてしまいましたね。

水谷　そういう経験もたくさん積むことで、対処の仕方を知っていくと思うんですよ。昔は気性の荒い選手が多くて、デンマークのマイケル・メイスなんかは、こっちがリードしていると急にラケットを投げたりボールを潰したりした。僕もまだ若手だったので、動揺することはしょっちゅうありました。

　でも、いつからか、そういう言動をなんとも思わなくなった。「勝負だから勝たなきゃいけない。自分が相手を潰さなきゃいけない」という気持ちが強くなったからです。海外の選手は、いろんな手を使って勝ちにくる。本当は見えているのに「サービスを打つ瞬間が見えない」と言ってきて、それを真に受けてちょっとでもサービスを見やすくしたりしたら相手の思うツボ。逆に自分が精神的に優位に立てるよう、相手がビビるぐらいの図太さを身につけていかなきゃいけません。

早田ひなと張本智和が中国トップ３に勝つには...水谷隼が分析するポイントは「サービスと戦術」
https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/otherballgame/other/2023/07/21/post_2/
水谷隼から見た男子卓球界の現状と、張本智和に次ぐ選手が世界で勝つために必要なこと 日本の指導者育成の課題にも言及した
https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/otherballgame/other/2023/07/21/post_3/
熾烈な女子卓球パリ五輪争いの行方を水谷隼が展望 「メダルを取れる選手」を選ぶための選考基準に関する考えも明かした
https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/otherballgame/other/2023/07/21/post_4/

 

[Oliverpool]

I have been watching many games live at a good angle to see what is actually happening. Even SYS was warned once for not moving her none playing arms fast enough and partially blocking the ball. Guess what after the call out, her none moving arms move
Out of the way super fast every single serve later. But hers was a small case.

Yoshimura kept throwing the ball towards his body but the umpire did not call it once and dang Qiu never made a fuss. Harimoto, Felix and many more were also Warned once in games. But most threw the ball pretty straight.

LSD one was pretty bad. It was so bad that I was
Surprise the umpire said nothing. It was All on the shovel serve. Even form my seating area I had trouble seeing the ball contact as his body head was somewhat blocking the ball. It is probably much worse for a left handed player. No way Timo would Have been able to see the ball contact in LSD shovel serves.

 

[dchen]

The umpires didn't call them until Boll made it obvious they were. If the umpires hadn't agreed with Boll, then what would have happened? Boll would have missed random serves, lost the match and we would be having a different conversation.

Oh I misunderstood your earlier comments. I thought you meant that LSD lost the game because of the interruption. But yea I completely agree with you on the illegal serves. Hopefully the introduction of a hawk eye system would make it better.

 

[Shine]

It is said that WCQ usually wears a shirt one size bigger, so he can hide the ball with his shirt as well. You can see that he keeps pulling his shirt during the games all the time. But this is just speculation. Anyway, all his shovel serves are problematic at best.

Sounds like Chinese conspiracy theory from one of his many haters, His shirt doesn't blow around while playing and he always tucks them in tightly - so the chances of the shirt helping him is rather low. The problem has been diagnosed, he contacts the ball behind his head.

 

[Tempest/Comet]

“WCQ has a bigger-than-average head (East Asians have the biggest head) and so I guess that's why more players find it more annoying.

edit: deleted post…sober now🤣

 

[NextLevel]

Have you seen LYJ shovel and long fast serves?? Watch the match against Felix

The problem is the quality of the serve and the player using it, I have to give WCQ his due on that one. WCQ has a strong forehand so the problem is that the third ball is at a level where you are helpless, generic returns are not going to cut it, while they very well might against someone like LYJ. That's why I list Fan, it is not so much that he isn't helpless, but that his being a teammate and practicing with Wang gives him an advantage. Hiding is not just a WCQ problem and I do not pretend it is, he is just too strong on third ball for go long with generic returns and he has maximized the trajectory disguise of his shovel serve.

 

[Metaxa]

Timo complaining to umpire about LSD's serves

Lol, no ill intentions against Boll but apparently you have the right as a living legend to berate others notwithstanding Timo has been raising his services barely 10cm for years. But what is much worse, the umpires react to this too but Lin SD is obviously too young to react or bite off.
On the other hand, I now hope that more and more players will stand up to their opponents, would they dare?.... The pot calling the kettle black....

Maybe the laughable displays of referees (who don't dare to react on their own) will finally start leading to standardised decisions and uniform sanctions. Crazier it must all be!

 

[Shine]

Curious... How far will they be allowed to go? CXT,QTY?

I'm curious why after all these years, you still believe that CXT and QTY are there to do the leadership's dirty work.
Do you have a valid observation study on this, because CXT has stopped WMY on important occasions that one would have thought party's directives would "kick in" to save WMY since it's seemingly logical that she should be favored, and QTY plays so few events that sometimes one's forget she's a top 10 player.
I'm absolutely willing to listen to your theory.

 

[Shine]

Lol, no ill intentions against Boll but apparently you have the right as a living legend to berate others notwithstanding Timo has been raising his services barely 10cm for years. But what is much worse, the umpires react to this too but Lin SD is obviously too young to react or bite off.
On the other hand, I now hope that more and more players will stand up to their opponents, would they dare?.... The pot calling the kettle black....

Maybe the laughable displays of referees (who don't dare to react on their own) will finally start leading to standardised decisions and uniform sanctions. Crazier it must all be!

Lol, I noticed this, but I decided to refrain. Even Boll's reverse pendulum serve is blocked by his head too. It appears that those who are willing to complain will gain the dividends.

Maybe we'll see Hawkeye soon enough, and then back to the drawing board for almost everyone in terms of serves. I believe this is something the ETTU and Sorling can lobby at least in the interests of their players for Paris.

 

[Metaxa]

The umpires didn't call them until Boll made it obvious they were. If the umpires hadn't agreed with Boll, then what would have happened? Boll would have missed random serves, lost the match and we would be having a different conversation.

So because you are a player of standing, you are allowed something more than others? I don't know where he gets that right but apparently you can do just about anything with referees, even make them believe you have a perfect serve yourself. 🫣