Short pips on FH

By classic defense, you mean passive (almost never attack) FH, as opposed to using the FH to attack and the BH to defend? AFAIK classic defenders chop a lot with their FH, which usually makes inverted rubbers a better choice than SP. (If I'm not mistaken, SP FH + LP BH is more suited for an offensive, block + hit approach to the FH.) I'm curious to see what other people think.

Hmm, look at Herbert Neubauer.

I know very little about classic defense, so hopefully someone else can chime in. Here’s what i can say looking at the two more broadly - not specifically for classic defense.

SP are less sensitive to spin but also generate less spin. On certain shots they can also be more deceptive because they can help hide the amount of spin you put on the ball. Control is notoriously vague. But if we talk about greater error margin, or perhaps the ease with which one can get the ball back on the table, SP won’t offer more control overall: they will be safer on certain shots, less on other..

Eg 1: Generating more spin helps increase the consistency of topspin shots by giving you a greater error margin (wider range of trajectories that will clear the net and land on the table.) This gets more important the further away you move from the table. Similarly, inv generates more backspin than SP on chops. So for all the shots that rely on generating spin to land on the table inv will tend to have a greater error margin.

Eg 2: When hitting through a spinny ball, where you want a shot with a straight trajectory from contact to table, the incoming spin can limit the trajectories you can safely use. So for hitting through spin, the lower sensitivity to spin you get from SP (over Inv) can increase your error margin.

Are you still using the 729 super fx on your forehand? If you want something safer it might be worth looking eg at non-tacky inverted rubbers over SP..

There are inv rubbers meant for defensive play that help take speed off the ball while still enabling you to generate spin. That might be worth exploring before SP imo..

Yeah I'm with OhWell when I saw the 1st post. I was thinking "is this guy really going to play classic defense and rarely attack if at all?" Think that's a mistake in today's game but it can be done.

Really not a whole lot of thought needed for this one IMO. Just get some SP in a thin sponge. I suppose I'd just go 802 (love that topsheet) in 1.8. You might want to consider even thinner or OX possibly.

I play with Spectol once. Didn't like it. That's even less grippy than 802 IMO in comparing topsheets. And 802 is known for being a classic all around topsheet. So in short, Spectol was really low grip from what i saw.... Granted when I tried it, it was on a super fast sponge.

suds79 said:

Yeah I'm with OhWell when I saw the 1st post. I was thinking "is this guy really going to play classic defense and rarely attack if at all?" Think that's a mistake in today's game but it can be done.

Really not a whole lot of thought needed for this one IMO. Just get some SP in a thin sponge. I suppose I'd just go 802 (love that topsheet) in 1.8. You might want to consider even thinner or OX possibly.

I play with Spectol once. Didn't like it. That's even less grippy than 802 IMO in comparing topsheets. And 802 is known for being a classic all around topsheet. So in short, Spectol was really low grip from what i saw.... Granted when I tried it, it was on a super fast sponge.

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The other flag for me is that the OP is interested in SP for more control on the FH. Im not sure, but i was under the impression that inverted rubbers that excells at taking speed off the ball might be more promising than SP for that. What do you think?

sirius13phobos said:

Yes, I mean "classic defence" like defence with very little % of attack. I thought that SP give me more control than inverted rubber. Or it's not right?

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Have you tried rubbers like:
Gambler reflectoid,
Spinlord Marder (and Marder II)

Spin pips chop 2 work great for this! However, they are quite slow...

I think spectol, spin pips, or something like tackiness chop will do fine for this style.

sirius13phobos said:

I tried Marder I and II. It lived in my hand only 1 month. Then I played a lot of time with TSP triple spin chop 1.1 and then Tackiness chop 1.5.

The main reason why I think to change my inv rubber on FH to SP is to make powerfull smash after chop(or make topspin and than smash like He Zhi Wen). I saw his games. Mane idea which I saw in his tactics is first ball with top spin and than smash.


P.S. guys sorry about my English

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ah! HZW does close to the table extreme offense with SP on a very stiff offensive blade. SP enable him to accelerate the game’s tempo by abusing the more direct trajectory they enable on aggressive shots. For this style a stiff offensive blade is very important, and it’s important to keep in mind that his kind of setup isn’t meant to perform well at all far from the table. - and get a lot weaker even at mid distance..

Thats certainly a good use of short pips.

sirius13phobos said:

I tried Marder I and II. It lived in my hand only 1 month. Then I played a lot of time with TSP triple spin chop 1.1 and then Tackiness chop 1.5.

The main reason why I think to change my inv rubber on FH to SP is to make powerfull smash after chop(or make topspin and than smash like He Zhi Wen). I saw his games. Mane idea which I saw in his tactics is first ball with top spin and than smash.


P.S. guys sorry about my English

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Ah yes, common feeling... you want the best attributes of all rubbers in one! lol...

To play the blocking game, you generally want a faster less spin sensitive SP to block and smash, but then it's not as good for chopping. So you pick one with a trade off. Do you want to block/smash more than chop? Or chop more than smash?

Sirius (by the way this is "Japsican" on OOAK).

I think you will dislike the lack of spin generation with the SPs vs. Inverted on serves. As a classic chopper, the biggest asset we have for our style is to keep spin introduced in the rally. Starting with less spin on serves hampers that, and also twiddling between LP and Inverted is a real asset.

If you look at Chtchetinine, he always serves underspin, and very rarely does a no spin or sidespin serve, unless he is going to 3rd ball (which he does maybe 0.01% of the time..haha).

I say, stick with thin inverted because smashing with SPs is more for close to the table.

That being said, Thomas Benborn, a swedish classic chopper, plays with Butterfly Raystorm on his FH. However, Raystorm is pretty spinny for a short pip. Of the pips you listed, I think super spin pips chop II is the closest to that in terms of spin. I would go with SSPC2 as it is also very slow.

After that, you could try RITC 802-40 which is very spinny, maybe pair it with a softer sponge. That way you can get some bite on serves while being able to better smash popups.

sirius13phobos said:

Hey guys!

I need your help

Does anybody knows what is better on FH for classic defence as I played(https://www.youtube.com/user/sirius13PHOBOS):

1. TSP super spin pips chop II 1.7
2. TSP Spectol 1.8
3. Friendship 802 1.8
4. Your variant

I want to try short pips on my FH

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The friendship 802-40 with 1.5 sponge should do the job.
What sponge are you using on your super fx right now? Coz a 1.5 should be able to chop consistently with it too while allowing better serves and better opening spin ups if ever you want to change your game up, or even mid distance drive/blocks.
Alternatively you could try Sriver/mark V with 1.5 or 1.7 sponge. A little more forgiving and should give you more margin for error with chopping mid distance.