Backhand rubbers? Is d09c too much for a beginner-intermediate player?

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D09c dries out in a way that I think the longevity argument for it is not as strong. Just my 2 cents.

D09C indeed has this problem
I know many that went back to T05, but the Hard version
Interesting to see that ppl had the same experience with 09c that I had too. I went to Hurricane 8-80 for this exact reason. Funnily enough, D05 lasts almost forever... not sure why 09c is plagued with these issues.
 
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says Buttefly Forever!!!
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Lets examine this a little bit closer shall we.

1. 09C is BTY's attempt to canabilize the DHS NH3 mkt share.
2. So it is made with NH3 properties in mind with some variation of course and it is suppose to be better.
3. NH3 is mainly used in FH right? No one uses it for BH ( except for Ma Long, but he is Ma Long, he is GOAT and as GOAT can decide to use whatever he wants coz he is GOAT ). He is like the 0.1% or outlier in statistic speak.
4. Why make your life a nightmare with 09C on your BH?
5. There are better option like D05 ( the usual suspect ) or D64 if you are the not the loopy but punchy type. 09C is just for FH.
6. My a few clubmates of mine tried 09C when it first came out but and none of them uses it these days and cost is not the factor. They still uses D05 / D64 though.

Conclusion:
a) 09C for FH: Yes
b) 09C for BH: No
 
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I used D09c for almost a year on both sides with Stiga Dynasty Carbon.
And then, I made a testing to DNA Dragon Grip just for fun. And I figured out, how similar are both rubbers.
For a penhold player, each gram matters because of the grip, unless you have a bulletproof wrist.
After sometime, I learned how easy is using a softer rubber on BH.
For me, D09c is ok for FH. I didn't like D05 because it last me in average 2 weeks because, part of the topsheet was coming off.
 
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Lets examine this a little bit closer shall we.

1. 09C is BTY's attempt to canabilize the DHS NH3 mkt share.
2. So it is made with NH3 properties in mind with some variation of course and it is suppose to be better.
3. NH3 is mainly used in FH right? No one uses it for BH ( except for Ma Long, but he is Ma Long, he is GOAT and as GOAT can decide to use whatever he wants coz he is GOAT ). He is like the 0.1% or outlier in statistic speak.
4. Why make your life a nightmare with 09C on your BH?
5. There are better option like D05 ( the usual suspect ) or D64 if you are the not the loopy but punchy type. 09C is just for FH.
6. My a few clubmates of mine tried 09C when it first came out but and none of them uses it these days and cost is not the factor. They still uses D05 / D64 though.

Conclusion:
a) 09C for FH: Yes
b) 09C for BH: No


1. 09c was actually a rubber desired by top Butterfly players who wanted to competed against the edge tacky rubbers gave in the short game, but didn't want something as slow. As Timo will tell you, he played a big role in getting the balance right.
2. It is made with the tack, but is not quite the same as the level of tack that slows Hurricane down.
3. Hurricane is used on both sides and in fact, the player who I consider to have the best BH game in the world (Liang Jingkun) uses Hurricane on his backhand. More on this in a second.
4. The truth is that many people don't like tacky rubber on backhands because they want to be able to take advantage of smaller backhand strokes and get speed with these strokes. But this principle is not an iron rule, in fact, many players with strong backhands want to take advantage of their backhand power or want to open up more easily against certain serves and tacky rubbers can help with it. In fact now, with the plastic ball, the loss of spin makes tackiness the only way to get good spin and if you have the footwork and/power to make the tradeoff, many people are now taking it. Some do not go all the way, but more people are using stuff that gives them some minimal stickiness just so they can spin better.
5. Timo Boll uses 09c on backhand, but Dima uses D05. Again, this is an open choice depending on what one wants to do with his backhand and other things like blade choice etc.
6. I used D09c on both sides for a few months in 2020 and the main reason why I am not doing it now is counterintuitive - the rubber is probably too bouncy for where I want my game to go. I am getting better at hitting quality balls and being able to place them with precision and power is a major plus. If you have rapid strokes and can get into position, in some contexts, you may very well be better off with stuff that is more linear even if more grippy so you can control the ball on serve return better and apply more power to the ball with confidence. This is true on both forehand and backhand.

Many people who consider tacky rubbers too slow, I can see what they are saying and maybe I would agree more if I was an away from the table player. Most of my game is close to the table, and I often like to use ball placement and spin to score points. As DerEchte and I both concluded, many of the shots that people rely on bouncy rubbers to do well are much less effective at our level where you hardly make good shots without good footwork, so you will likely lose the majority of points where you don't get into position anyways. With that in mind, we just focus on using rubbers that allow us to play our games. DerEchte likes to spin more, I like to loop drive more. But ultimately, you aren't going to make great shots if you don't get into position no matter your equipment.

Long story short, build your game, try stuff yourself, and give your opinion based on your game. But price aside, you may be surprised by the things you can do with 09c on your backhand.

A couple of videos that I think everyone should be familiar with as they pose the issues in this conversation very well. I think the videos will give you a different perspective on equipment if you are not familiar with this perspective.



 
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Lets examine this a little bit closer shall we.

1. 09C is BTY's attempt to canabilize the DHS NH3 mkt share.
2. So it is made with NH3 properties in mind with some variation of course and it is suppose to be better.
3. NH3 is mainly used in FH right? No one uses it for BH ( except for Ma Long, but he is Ma Long, he is GOAT and as GOAT can decide to use whatever he wants coz he is GOAT ). He is like the 0.1% or outlier in statistic speak.
4. Why make your life a nightmare with 09C on your BH?
5. There are better option like D05 ( the usual suspect ) or D64 if you are the not the loopy but punchy type. 09C is just for FH.
6. My a few clubmates of mine tried 09C when it first came out but and none of them uses it these days and cost is not the factor. They still uses D05 / D64 though.

Conclusion:
a) 09C for FH: Yes
b) 09C for BH: No
I fear d05 and d64 are a bit too fast for me. I haven't used any rubber faster than the Fastarc G1.
 
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Is d09c too much for a beginner-intermediate player?​

Yes.
I like it that you detected beg-int designation.

I would be considered a very advanced player and I stay away from every diginiski rubber, because I cannot get even 70 percent of its potential.
 

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D09c dries out in a way that I think the longevity argument for it is not as strong. Just my 2 cents.
I've personally not found that to be the case, but I guess it's all relative.

My goal is to change the rubbers after 6 months to tie in with the major events in the UK.

That is normally in September, just before the league starts (which runs through to March/April), and again in January/February time to coincide with the annual tournaments.

In only a year of testing, I've found D09c to last the time quite comfortably, and could have probably squeezed out a bit more time if I had wanted to.

I like it that you detected beg-int designation.

I would be considered a very advanced player and I stay away from every diginiski rubber, because I cannot get even 70 percent of its potential.

Yeah, all Tenergy/Dignics or any other fast rubber (Tibhar Evo line etc) should all be avoided if you are a beginner in my opinion.

Whilst I will say that D09c is probably the rubber that I *would* recommend to lower level players (if I had to choose one of the "expensive" Butterfly rubbers), the cost alone is not worth it when a beginner won't be able to get much out of it.

I think D09c can work for intermediate players who can loop - It's SO much more controlled than the likes of D05 or T05 that I think it's viable option.

But cost wise..... I just don't see the point unless you are:

1. Very rich
2. Can hit a good loop
 
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I'm currently using Fastarc S-1 as my BH rubber on a FZD ALC. I'm doing ok with it, but I dislike the feel soft rubbers on backhand.
I've seen D09C being widely used as a BH rubber and I know it offers a lot of spin potential. While looking at the butterfly chart, it is rated below T05FX in terms of speed and my Fastarc S-1 is supposedly close to T05 FX in that regard.
I've not had the occasion to try D09C before, but I fancy the idea of a harder, spinnier rubber for my BH. I'm just worried that the sponge may be a bit too hard to engage at my level. What is your opinion on that?

Are there any other really spinny aprox medium hardness rubbers worth considering?
Just try out Yinhe Big Dipper. It's semi tacky and a really nice half-hybrid rubber, and it's linear so you will have a great chance to control your short game as well :)
 
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Just try out Yinhe Big Dipper. It's semi tacky and a really nice half-hybrid rubber, and it's linear so you will have a great chance to control your short game as well :)
I really like the power and clicky feeling of BD. I like the high level of grip, and its very good for short game.

If I had one complaint, I find that the throw angle is a bit low and a bit straight. Sometimes I find that my backhand goes too straight.

Do you find that it shoots a bit too low?
 
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I really like the power and clicky feeling of BD. I like the high level of grip, and its very good for short game.

If I had one complaint, I find that the throw angle is a bit low and a bit straight. Sometimes I find that my backhand goes too straight.

Do you find that it shoots a bit too low?
No I don't really. It's the best rubber I used for BH, and I always come back to it when I try something else :)
 
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... It is normal that ESN rubbers after 1 or 2 months of usage, the performance will drop a great deal (this is where the booster is gone or the booster has gotten to the topsheet and changed the quality of the topsheet)
Whereby the Butterfly rubbers would last longer.

This is pretty much a known fact, but as I mentioned ,if you are changing before that date, it is fine to use (and cheaper too).

Yep, 6 to 8 weeks was what I usually got out of ESN rubbers. But some rubbers needed a bit boosting in between...

If we can wait for around a month than we might get a slightly softer and a lot cheaper option: Glayzer 09C (44.90€ in Germany vs 79.90€ for a Dignics 09C).
 
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No I don't really. It's the best rubber I used for BH, and I always come back to it when I try something else :)
Well yes, I've been using it on my BH for the past 5 weeks as well. I do like it very much but sometimes find it difficult to use.

If Bd is your #1 for bh, what are your 2 and 3?
 
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Yep, 6 to 8 weeks was what I usually got out of ESN rubbers. But some rubbers needed a bit boosting in between...

If we can wait for around a month than we might get a slightly softer and a lot cheaper option: Glayzer 09C (44.90€ in Germany vs 79.90€ for a Dignics 09C).
Glayzer is a huge threat to ESN
 
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09C is like getting inside a Lambo. It is fast, sleek, hot & branded. But if you only use it for city driving and also does not use all those technical wizardry, you are over-paying for a means of transport.

Better just get a Toyota Prius, it gets the job done at a fraction of the price.
 
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Well yes, I've been using it on my BH for the past 5 weeks as well. I do like it very much but sometimes find it difficult to use.

If Bd is your #1 for bh, what are your 2 and 3?
For the number 2, I really like Giant Dragon TopEnergy Soft, but it bounces a bit too much compared to BD.

Number 3 might be a tight race between Loki N80 and Sanwei Gear Hyper 37deg. Two quite different rubbers, but I like parts of them for backhand. N80 is a little bit more rigid than BD in some way, but got the tackiness. A bit more like H3.

Gear Hyper for the control and a mild catapult feeling, but almost not tacky and I feel that I need that.
 
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For the number 2, I really like Giant Dragon TopEnergy Soft, but it bounces a bit too much compared to BD.

Number 3 might be a tight race between Loki N80 and Sanwei Gear Hyper 37deg. Two quite different rubbers, but I like parts of them for backhand. N80 is a little bit more rigid than BD in some way, but got the tackiness. A bit more like H3.

Gear Hyper for the control and a mild catapult feeling, but almost not tacky and I feel that I need that.
I remember you said you like to booster BD a bit with seamoon. Do you find that the throw angle changes after booster?
 
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I remember you said you like to booster BD a bit with seamoon. Do you find that the throw angle changes after booster?
It might change a little bit. I always boost it a little to get the softer feeling, so I have might forgotten how it is to play without the booster :)
 
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