Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Shuki]

It is like you just want to put words as you see, if i lose mean i am bad, if they win means they are better or good, so if Ma Long or Xu Xin lose they are bad, if you said different stories and excuses then i can't accept, anyone in the world can lose, and winning by skills and training is another story, but if someone is out of shape or form or mentally off then losing isn't impossible.

When i said the skills are there and mindset is not is because when i play someone who id beat me in the tournament in open game not official and not in crowded i manage to beat him, even if he is doing his best, and i am not alone there, even my friend i practice with, he is a member in the academy too for short time, he manage to beat most of players in class B and even beat very few players in class A, but when he play against them in the rumble that happens every friday he lose to most of them, another friday he beats them, he didn't reach the finals yet, but he told me he reached the quarter few times and the semi once, he even beat who won class B 2 times before.

Anyway, a solid player is a solid player, but even he can be defeated, i know the top two players in class A who are unbeaten, but they lose very very few times, so when they lose does that mean they are bad or lack skills?

Be logic, it is not all about winning and losing, and having skills doesn't mean we will be the world champions, but to know you position or level is not the whole story, and if i can play beautifully one day and beat some then suddenly i lose to most of them another day it doesn't mean i have that skills suddenly to play good in one day then nothing next day, sometimes focusing and be in shape is also important, but it sounds with you it is only techniques techniques, and if focus is gone then techniques are not exist anymore to your point.

I may not understand your point or you don't understand my point, but what i can say is beginner is subjective yes, but that doesn't mean what is beginner to me means it is beginner to you, simply beginner means who doesn't know how to hold the racket or even hold the ball or even doesn't know how to serve or even to return, but someone who knows how to loop and smash and drive and chop and defense long and call himself pure beginner it is a deception more than an honest, and how come if someone in class B lost to someone in class C and a player in class A lost to a player in class B? it is just miracle or just chaos?!!!

I don't know where to start. You're either ignorant to how the world works for you're trying to get a reaction from people. my post may have had some douche-bagery in it, but main points were solid and instead of ignoring them and saying I'm wrong, take them into consideration. You lost because the players had more skill than you, mentality is a skill too, you can't purely blame mentality for your losses. I don't care if you're up 10-2 and you end up losing, it wasn't a lack of your mentality that made you lose, it was more likely that the opponent's mentality was superior, as that's one of their skills. A player could have terrible strokes but great mentality, beating everyone because of how great their mentality is. That's a skill that they've fine tuned.

 

[Der_Echte]

Epic day NL glad to hear it clicking, whatever you did.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[NextLevel]

Epic day NL glad to hear it clicking, whatever you did.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

Here is the Kanaph match - not a good ad, but I am working on it...

 

[TareqPhoto]

It means i have to understand what is the skill meaning, for me i thought skill is only the techniques and physical style and not about mentality thing, but if you put mental as say 50% of the skill then i have to change my meaning and say yes i don't have skill, English isn't my language so your words or meaning all making it complicated for me to understand what is right and what is wrong.

At the end, even if i have coaching and get great techniques and strokes, mental part maybe can't be treated by the coach, he may try, but it is something in nature, and i said it before that it is not in or about table tennis itself, i may get that mental issue part solved without coaching if i get playing more and more or not feel shy or embarrassing or more contacting with people and players, that is why i play better i am in very small group/people than in tourneys, but it is clearly here that tournaments and challenges is the only way to determine the levels.

In this case i will just say i am in level 0 until i get coaching first and play more tours then i can count my level.

Hope you can open a section in this site for TT dictionary and definitions so someone like me not English can understand better what is going on here in chit chat or in general.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Today i had a 1:1 1h session with one of my private coaches. He's been following me for 3 years now. Recently i'm using more another coach for a few reasons: he's more available, its nearer my place, and he used to be a world class player, and he's only slightly more expensive ! (+ he speaks English)...

However i like the former one as well because while his level is way more modest, he's been coaching a long time, i don't need anyway an ex-pro to teach me (lol), the guy knows me better, he's right handed (the other left-handed) and most importantly i feel we knock more in "harmony", at the right pace, and the right amount of spin so that we have long rallies, that i work hard enough, and that i have the impression of playing someone strong but that i could play in a tournament and he would be playing the very same way against me.. Against the pro, i mean he could almost be sitting in a chair playing with his right hand and do trick shots to me...

Regarding technical advice, i think i get good value from both of them, and i like to have different opinions too.

Anyway 2 weeks ago, i felt i was playing like total sh*t, now i feel better again. There are (long and mini) cycles.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

~4:20 - I hear a mutual friend in the background! That's one of his 'outbursts' that cracks me up!

I generally play vids with the sound very low... somehow i heard a voice which i thought was MB and it was him lol

~8:07-8:10 - SWEETNESS! i sometimes think i can block loops like that and let my partner loop me ... when we played in Oct, you showed me excellent placement ... there's a spot on my FH that i cannot reach in time... this shot shows it. Great shot placement! I'm reminded of the old joke, "'Doctor, doctor, it hurts when i do this (patient makes a motion) ... doctor says, 'then don't do that.'"

~9:08 - 9:12 - HEAVY DOWNSPIN! I would be the Scorpion of the Scorpion and the Frog story on those kinds of shots! LOL at me.

--------------------

You all are a chatty bunch! I'm playing catchup ... went from most current post and worked backwards ... just saw these posts.

Played some classic matches today. Also did battle with an old foe that OSPH will be happy to see. Got my highest rated scalp ever. Also played my longest deuce game ever. Had my first 0-11 game 5 loss ever. Yes it was a good day.

Also did some battle with OSPH's friend, MB. Was a bit shocked at how well he returned my serves but in the end, my spin and consistency won out.

 

[Boogar]

I am thinking about changing my forehand rubber to this one:

http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/friendship-729-focus-3-snipe

What do you think NL?

 

[Jirrex]

I am thinking about changing my forehand rubber to this one:

http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/friendship-729-focus-3-snipe

What do you think NL?

Didn't you try your Rakza x and/or Vega Pro yet?

 

[suds79]

Had a good session at club last night.

Beat for the second time in a row this older man who use to give me fits. It's exciting when someone who use to beat you 3-0 you finally overcome.

My new playstyle really fits my game and more importantly, not switching equipment or play styles is really starting to pay dividends. Still on the penhold twiddle game with Long Pips & Short pips. It's funny because I simply read the person. Some people play very poorly vs Long Pips. Other people it doesn't bother. Vs the people who play it poorly, I'll use them a lot. Vs people who it doesn't effect, I'll play more short pips.

This older man uses inverted & anti on one side. He clearly does not like that his anti doesn't get him points. In anti to Long Pips rallies, the ball quickly because relatively spinless after back to back hits. I then just make it a point to twiddle to short pips where that's an easy ball to attack. I was pleased.

But more exciting was the doubles win my long time partner (Ben. Featured in the video below. We play good as a team) and I got over two of the better players at club. Each one of them is a good 500-600 raitings points higher than us if you were to go by ratingscentral with the best one being around 2000. So really we "shouldn't win".

But a quote from NL said that I really like. "Ratings and levels don't play matches, people do."

We kept playing the same points over & over and they either couldn't or wouldn't adjust. My partner serves backspin, the other player always, and I mean always pushes to me baiting me back in the day when I was inverted to loop that ball. Well now I just long pip attack swipe that ball. It's so very easy to do and the 2000 player (granted he's coming off a long break due to injury) simply struggled with the sink effect of the ball. If he did get it on the table, my partner was ready to attack. He has a really good forehand.

I'm really trying to work in attacking strokes with the long pips which from what I've seen, few people have had much practice against. I mean here's a player who is far superior to us who was struggling with it. Simply because of lack of practice. It was a good lesson to me to focus less on the opponents rating and more on what makes them uncomfortable. Because if you can find that, you can make them look a whole lose worse than they really are.

Will bring some more club footage in the coming weeks.

In the meantime, Here's a match with my partner Ben (FYI, please give me any tips if you see weaknesses in his game as he usually beats me ) vs Daniel. A 2015 USATT 11 year old boy who is the best player in Nebraska most likely.... Now before you go and say "well do what Daniel does." Keep in mind Daniel and I play completely different. He's off the table two winged looper. I'm a close to the table penholder. So I'm looking for more weaknesses in Ben's game. Namely the one I see is that shots really wide to his forehand he doesn't move his feat and just reaches for. As a lefty when we play, that' looks wide open. But I have to be careful because if he does get his full loop in, that can be a hard ball to get back.

Hope you enjoy.

 

[Archosaurus]

Today was quite a good day. Didn't play too much, but I know I have improved because I had more confidence to hit into topspin that I would have blocked some time ago. I think I could feel my arm swinging back and whipping at some times too.

My attempts at relaxing are paying off: slowly and steadily I'm getting more stable.

 

[NextLevel]

I am thinking about changing my forehand rubber to this one:

http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/friendship-729-focus-3-snipe

What do you think NL?

I would prefer either what you currently use or the ones you proposed. I know people who use that and they are mostly trying to save money - it is soft but playable on FH. IMO, it is better to play with something that at least one good player you are familiar with and like their style plays with so you can imagine playing like them while you are building your style.

Do you remember the high ball looping exercise I showed you at Princeton? How often do you do it?

 

[Flatstyk]

So I tell players all the time - when you are up 10-4 against a higher rated player, especially if the higher rated player is serving, when it gets to 10-6 and it is your serve, don't just start waiting for a mistake because if you don't execute your plays and win before it is 10-8, you then have to face the player's training on his serves and once it is tied, you are screwed. So always continue to look for and execute things in your play book, no matter the score. That is what better players do and that is what you should be doing. And if you don't have a play book and are complaining about nerves, then you are complaining about the wrong things.

Next Level is offering some really significant observations here!

I have three regular practice partners, two living quite nearby and one that plays a level or so above me is two hours away. In terms of relative strength, overall I would place myself in the #2 slot. Every week or two #1 and I each drive an hour to meet and practice. We also each attend the same weekly club, so sometimes meet twice a week. With the two nearby partners, I get to play one or both together almost every day.

With the two locals (3 & 4) we play close enough to have great games, which they can sometimes win...but when we try to dial it in with serious focus at the end of a session we play what we call our "mental match" best of 7 games. Those I mostly win, convincingly if I feel I am working hard. It drives those guys into some frustration that it is not unknown for me to come back from a deficit to win. Some of that may be from what I practice during the more casual play where I might be testing a new stroke variation or playing risky or whatever and find myself down a few points...then once they hit a score of about 7, I try to summon up my focus for a comeback. I think this is good mental practice but maybe the looser play earlier in those games is really conditioning me to be erratic? I welcome your thoughts on that. Anyway I have experienced what Next Level describes and have had interesting come backs from being down 2-9, for instance.

Now, against my other more distant player, #1, I am definitely not his level, but close enough to win some games...but only very rarely have I won a match against him. Last week we met and practiced for an hour, then began playing some games. At first he was winning all of them, then I found myself getting more relaxed and into my better groove and I started to win some. BUT in one instance I was hitting well, had just won a game and then found myself up 10-2...and you can guess it. He bore down and I maybe started to get tight. At deuce we traded points several times..and ultimately he won that game!

 

[ttmonster]

Here's what I could observe based on my video analysis skill at one pass , the level difference between the kid and the friend , in the context of their matchup, is too much to point out flaws in his game that will help you to beat him. The kid is essentially beating him with his overall game, meaning he pretty much does everything better than your friend, no offense to him. so the only thing I could see is the lack of footwork. There has to be some reason why the kid tried to serve short to his forehand , may be to avoid the banana or may be to push it deep and long to his either wing off the first return , not sure, but you could try that ...

 

[RajaLoopah]

Because there are no upcoming tournaments the EJ virus took the chance and infected me. I am currently using Force Pro Black Edition. I went to the dark side and it feels good.

 

[NextLevel]

Next Level is offering some really significant observations here!

I have three regular practice partners, two living quite nearby and one that plays a level or so above me is two hours away. In terms of relative strength, overall I would place myself in the #2 slot. Every week or two #1 and I each drive an hour to meet and practice. We also each attend the same weekly club, so sometimes meet twice a week. With the two nearby partners, I get to play one or both together almost every day.

With the two locals (3 & 4) we play close enough to have great games, which they can sometimes win...but when we try to dial it in with serious focus at the end of a session we play what we call our "mental match" best of 7 games. Those I mostly win, convincingly if I feel I am working hard. It drives those guys into some frustration that it is not unknown for me to come back from a deficit to win. Some of that may be from what I practice during the more casual play where I might be testing a new stroke variation or playing risky or whatever and find myself down a few points...then once they hit a score of about 7, I try to summon up my focus for a comeback. I think this is good mental practice but maybe the looser play earlier in those games is really conditioning me to be erratic? I welcome your thoughts on that. Anyway I have experienced what Next Level describes and have had interesting come backs from being down 2-9, for instance.

Now, against my other more distant player, #1, I am definitely not his level, but close enough to win some games...but only very rarely have I won a match against him. Last week we met and practiced for an hour, then began playing some games. At first he was winning all of them, then I found myself getting more relaxed and into my better groove and I started to win some. BUT in one instance I was hitting well, had just won a game and then found myself up 10-2...and you can guess it. He bore down and I maybe started to get tight. At deuce we traded points several times..and ultimately he won that game!

IT's very common for even 1900-2000 players who have not gotten the memo to fall into this trap that big leads are insurmountable. But at that level, people have put in enough hours into training that you can't just wait for them to miss, especially the players who thrive on consistent defense or instant offense. The instant offense ones, you have to return their balls with quality to prevent their sniper shots and the defenders, you have to be patient to seek the right ball. I think that big leads tend to reduce discipline and foster impatience on the part of the person who is up, and they free up the person who is down to experiment and focus. And then the narrowing of the score makes everything worse.

But the root is believing that people just miss. Nooo, if you play 2000+ players, especially 2200+ players, their inability to miss will frustrate you. The movement and ball anticipation is just better. So don't assume that they are just going to miss - execute your plays and if you win or lose, you did your best. Losing big leads happens to the best players, but the big culprit is always assuming that an error from your opponent is inevitable.

 

[NextLevel]

Here's what I could observe based on my video analysis skill at one pass , the level difference between the kid and the friend , in the context of their matchup, is too much to point out flaws in his game that will help you to beat him. The kid is essentially beating him with his overall game, meaning he pretty much does everything better than your friend, no offense to him. so the only thing I could see is the lack of footwork. There has to be some reason why the kid tried to serve short to his forehand , may be to avoid the banana or may be to push it deep and long to his either wing off the first return , not sure, but you could try that ...

I agree with this. The forehand footwork thing is a common problem with strong backhand players (even I have it) and it takes significant forehand footwork coaching in cross step footwork to address it.

The real problem I see for you is that Ben has large strokes so he is going to be able to hit a sitting ball if he is in position and it is hard to generate overwhelming power with long pips. You have to try to keep him off balance - his forehand over the table doesn't look strong so I would serve there, mostly short, but sometimes long wide to get a push. Down the line into the wide backhand would also work - just not to the middle of the table as he has a huge backhand stroke that will wipe out the ball if he reads it unless you have enough backspin to make him push. I would also serve lots of fast heavy topspin because his big strongs will cause him to overhit.

 

[Archosaurus]

@NextLevel

Interesting that you recommend fast heavy topspin. I very rarely see people serve *really* fast serves deep to the elbow or the wide corners.

I've found it very effective, and surely it's good variation at all levels. Or is there a point when people can attack any long serve no matter how fast or heavy it is?

 

[ttmonster]

Now OP has to post his next match against Ben ... is that a fair ask ? That would make this more fun ....

I agree with this. The forehand footwork thing is a common problem with strong backhand players (even I have it) and it takes significant forehand footwork coaching in cross step footwork to address it.

The real problem I see for you is that Ben has large strokes so he is going to be able to hit a sitting ball if he is in position and it is hard to generate overwhelming power with long pips. You have to try to keep him off balance - his forehand over the table doesn't look strong so I would serve there, mostly short, but sometimes long wide to get a push. Down the line into the wide backhand would also work - just not to the middle of the table as he has a huge backhand stroke that will wipe out the ball if he reads it unless you have enough backspin to make him push. I would also serve lots of fast heavy topspin because his big strongs will cause him to overhit.

 

[NextLevel]

@NextLevel

Interesting that you recommend fast heavy topspin. I very rarely see people serve *really* fast serves deep to the elbow or the wide corners.

I've found it very effective, and surely it's good variation at all levels. Or is there a point when people can attack any long serve no matter how fast or heavy it is?

Would be interesting to see what you call really fast.

I spoke to Brett about this since he is an incredible server and he said that World Class players will loop anything that comes off the table anywhere, including the snake serve, so you could fool them once but once they had seen it, their anticipation would kick in if you repeated it without the proper set up serves and even then, it was no guarantee you would fool them. Their athleticism and footwork pretty much restricted him to serving mostly short unless he wanted to play defense behind his serve. At that level, you need to be a world class defender and blocker to anticipate and return the opening loop which will be loaded with pace and spin so most people who serve fast long topspin are hitters and blockers who want to use the incoming pace/spin or loopers who will serve, step back and get ready to blast anything that comes back long. You are rarely going to serve fast and long at that level and get a pure pop up, and at that level and with the courts they use, they have time to do lots of things.

The problem with fast serves is that unless you get a passive return that you can kill anyways, there is no guarantee you will get a ball you like and you have to adjust to the ball off the bounce unless you back up which also gives the opponent time - that's why loopers tend not to use them - loopers need time to loop. That said, I know lots of players who like to serve fast heavy side top into the backhand and wait for you to put the ball back into their backhand so they can rip a forehand or punch with their backhand.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

That said, I know lots of players who like to serve fast heavy side top into the backhand and wait for you to put the ball back into their backhand so they can rip a forehand or punch with their backhand.

GUILTY! glad i'm not the only one.