Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[blahness]

Yeah, I'll have to practice some more against those. I'm having particular issues with banana flicking reverse spin services to the wide FH. I think the main issue given that my stroke is fairly basic right now is that the ball curves to my right and I'm not stepping far enough right to hit that shot. Players who are very good can sidespin flick most things to the opponent's wide FH, but that's a shot I have not been attempting.

As for looping down the line in general, I'm finding it a bit easier since I started working on my BH footwork. At first I was just hopping for hopping's sake, which results in poor timing, but now it's feeling pretty natural. My trick was just to focus on aiming the left side of my belly to the ball. Once I've been able to do that, it became a lot easier to loop down the line as well. Before that I was doing the arm-extension thing to get the ball down the line, which is also very effective and has its own pros and cons, but I want the proper loop within my arsenal as well.

I gave up on trying to flick that (reverse spin to FH short) while defending my deep BH corner from long serves. I have to admit my footwork is not good enough to do that unless I guess a bit and just aim to finish the point straight away (pretty much the fade version of the BH chiquita with opposite sidespin to their wide FH - it is a killer). Easier just to do a safe FH sideswipe or dead flick and then aim to counter or attack the 4th ball. I push short at times to keep them guessing.

The other thing i realized (why FH receive is even better in this area) is that if they are serving down the line, the distance is quite a bit shorter and a lot of these short serves are actually half long (even those with 2nd bounce at the midpoint between table edge and net). If you do FH receive you can aim to do a FH hook loop (perfect FH loop type against this sidespin) directly off their serve if you sense it's long. This is often a direct point winner. Whereas if you try BH chiquita, these not quite short serves are quite jamming and you have to transition to a BH spin loop which is nowhere as strong as the FH loop. There is almost no way to transition from a chiquita preparation to a FH loop.

I now practice a lot of hook serves to the FH short for this reason - it is quite difficult to receive for a lot of players whereas if you serve it to BH the nasty natural BH sidespin push can be quite hard to deal with, not to mention potential flicks and chiquitas. The sidetopspin version is pretty much almost always half long (but even then a lot of ppl fail to attack it and always push them giving a nice juicy opportunity ball to the FH lol). Only the nospin/heavy backspin version is pretty easy to keep short.

 

[blahness]

after some reflection the issue is definitely lack of firming at impact

how should i practice this as an adult learner?

@blahness @NextLevel it is poor wording on my part; my coach does want me to snap the forearm but he wants me to also shorten the snap when i contact the ball because my old forearm snap motion was too big/extreme.

my arm being "too relaxed" makes up the bulk of my coach's critique of my forehand stroke. he says that i should take control of my arm more. he also wants me to change my backswing from dropping my blade down to more of a straight-back backswing.

you can already tell that my arm is pretty stiff from trying to be in control of my arm, thats pretty much where my frustration came from.

Tbh im guessing here, but for me a very important cue is to keep the elbow close to the hips/waist during backswing and not to move it at all (regardless of straight or bent arm). This ensures that the body leads the arm swing and not vice versa, so that the powerful larger muscle group such as the glutes and quads can get more involved. The elbow can move away from the body (and in fact it is desirable) during the forward swing, but during backswing it should be as compact as possible like a coiled spring.

If you lead with the arm during backswing you tend to get a much larger motion, but with those the power and recovery is not ideal because of the lack of body support for the swing.

 

[Der_Echte]

thanks for the advice, ill be implementing it in my practice sessions

though there is one question, isn't the sound of wood a no-no? ive had players better than me saying that the cracking sound is something to avoid and i should look for a more subtle sound when i brush the ball

during my experimentation i did manage to make a loud crack at times but i didnt stick through it due to the aforementioned advice ive been given

This will depend on what shot you are trying to do.

The drive, the power drive, the smash, the fast loop, and the loop kill all have big time firming of grip at impact and big sound from getting the ball into the wood. You have different degrees of open bat angle on these strikes.

The slow/heavy spin loop you would NOT want to hear any sound of the wood at all... you barely can discern the sponge/topsheet sound.

On a medium loop and certainly a counter topspin with the emphasis on spin, there is an entirely different sound that is desirable... a loud sound, but it is a corking sound of the topsheet and sponge returning after a strike with a very fast bat and not so much an open bat angle. That sound makes people think you have an illegal rubber. Easier to get this sound with softer sponges.

That is why some Euro brands name some of their super soft rubbers sponge hardness "Sound" (Think Tibhar and Stiga brands for example) Donic also uses the term Big Slam for their super soft version... because such a super soft sponged rubber with a very fast bat makes a big corking noise.

 

[dingyibvs]

I guess the best way is to working on different spins. Depends on exercise. But higher spins can be beneficial also - that’s all situational things.

When I do multi ball on a robot I do all the spins and variations (slight topspin’s for movement drills/high amount of spin for counter spin/no spin ball at diff placements for a feeling of the ball/under spin from one spot or randomly) - anyway the goal is to getting used to all the spins and variations - because for all of them you should need slight of adjustment. And the more quickly you adapt the better player you are.

That’s why playing against different players is beneficial also - everyone giving you back a different ball and the question is - can you recognize the spin/amount of it and make a quick and correct execution.
That’s why some people tend to feel that they really play kinda better against stronger players - because you can use quality of high level player that comes back to you and getting used to it. And after that badly losing to some random dude that just giving all back without outstanding quality or spin and now you in the situation of needing to create them (quality and spin) by yourself - if you not used to it - you would had a bad day.

As one of the guys from our club was telling me once after I was missing some shot that I assumed was “easy” - “there is no easy balls - every ball should be treated properly or you will end up making an error after error”

Yeah, I'm gonna have to practice against all the spin variations as well. What you're saying is exactly right.

This discovery really explains so much. For example, in the tournament last weekend, it explains why I couldn't adjust to the JPen twiddler. He switches to his red rubber after service probably because it's slower and less spinny, and I couldn't adjust to it because I simply haven't practiced against those types of returns much. Some months ago I had a tough match against a 1500's rated player at the club (we usually come on different days so I hadn't played him before) who mostly just returns the ball softly and attacks only with moderate power. I barely won that match, and then took a game off of the 2100+ rated coach there the next match, losing the 4th game 14-12 after whiffing on a soft block. I didn't know then why I felt so much more comfortable with his shots, or why I whiffed on that soft block so badly. Now I know why, and I'm gonna work on improving that aspect of my game.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

the thread about the guy looking to play WTT tournaments has been deleted ?

self-destroyed or moderated ?

what a waste of talent

 

[Der_Echte]

the thread about the guy looking to play WTT tournaments has been deleted ?

self-destroyed or moderated ?

what a waste of talent

I did NOT read that thread... but common TT sense says that those anywhere near the cusp or even 1000 miles away from becoming pro or elite amateur already know what is needed, so by that logic, the OP waz spamming or insane.

 

[Sims]

Interestingly, I got a taste for what different levels actually mean just a few weeks ago. One of our members had his 17 yr old nephew visiting from Germany, he's 1760 rated in Bavaria.
Man he was good! 😂
He beat us all fairly comfortably but there were no Premier League players there that eve (we play in the div below Premier) to give him a proper game. The longer we played the more points I was managing as I got used to his excellent serving and pimples on BH but I still only managed an 11-7 at best and averaged at 11-6 over our matches.
I've played better players in the past but none so young and not many with his all-round game, the control and ease with which he played was impressive.
Not sure where that puts me tbh, possibly somewhere between 1400-1500 German ranking system...
It was a great experience though. There are some fantastic players at my other club but I don't get to play them very often, always league on, or preparing for league, so playing me isn't great preparation for them!
Anyway, league starts again in 6 wks or so and we (my team from last season) may be moving up a level 😬

 

[dingyibvs]

I was pretty exhausted after soccer today so just had a short, simple practice. Just balls from +5 down to 0 spin, made sure I could execute an attack on each one individually, then a set of alternating +5 and no spin balls. It went much better than yesterday. I was still too early or late to start, but finished pretty strong.

At the end I tried to incorporate my other recent training which is footwork and body usage, involving placing the ball to the left of my abdomen and then adding some hip action to add power. Somewhat surprisingly, I got much better contact on the ball this way. I think the reason is that by looking at the ball a bit more to the side rather than more head on I was able to judge the pace of the ball better. This may also explain why this drill was easier on the FH side.

 

[dingyibvs]

Had another short session today, went really well this time! I was doing +5 sequentially down to 0 then repeat. By the end of the practice actually lost track of where I was in the sequence and was still making the shots, just instinctively adjusting to the differing pace/spin. I did a little bit on the FH side, just the alternating +5/0, will do some more next time. I wonder if I could actually do this drill with randomized spin? It'd be tough since I wouldn't have the opponent's racket swing as a guide on what spin to anticipate.

 

[blahness]

Had another short session today, went really well this time! I was doing +5 sequentially down to 0 then repeat. By the end of the practice actually lost track of where I was in the sequence and was still making the shots, just instinctively adjusting to the differing pace/spin. I did a little bit on the FH side, just the alternating +5/0, will do some more next time. I wonder if I could actually do this drill with randomized spin? It'd be tough since I wouldn't have the opponent's racket swing as a guide on what spin to anticipate.

Tbh i think this is where the limitations of robot training start to come in - i think it is quite important to mentally link the stroke to the incoming racket movement + ball trajectory. Robots dont provide that.

 

[dingyibvs]

Tbh i think this is where the limitations of robot training start to come in - i think it is quite important to mentally link the stroke to the incoming racket movement + ball trajectory. Robots dont provide that.

I do suspect so as well. It may also not be productive to train to react purely by watching the ball. I'll stick to the current training for now, make sure I can execute a good shot against varying degrees of spin and speed on both FH and BH in succession, and see how it affects my game play.

 

[NextLevel]

I do suspect so as well. It may also not be productive to train to react purely by watching the ball. I'll stick to the current training for now, make sure I can execute a good shot against varying degrees of spin and speed on both FH and BH in succession, and see how it affects my game play.

At a certain point, adjust to spin really comes down to adjusting to the amount of power on the ball and taking the ball later or earlier with good timing. Most powerful and spinny half long sidespin serves can be returned by letting the ball kick and then looping it after it has kicked.

 

[NextLevel]

The headliner is that I sprained and likely fractured my right foot chasing the ball while wearing my drippiest table tennis shoes for the first time in months on the grippy floors at Austin. I was playing warm up table tennis matches (well warm up in description but really matches for bragging rights over fellow group members). So I am not playing today's tournament and will likely be out for a period of time and will need to see an orthopedist at some point.

 

[dingyibvs]

The headliner is that I sprained and likely fractured my right foot chasing the ball while wearing my drippiest table tennis shoes for the first time in months on the grippy floors at Austin. I was playing warm up table tennis matches (well warm up in description but really matches for bragging rights over fellow group members). So I am not playing today's tournament and will likely be out for a period of time and will need to see an orthopedist at some point.

Ah that sucks, hopefully nothing was broken!

 

[NextLevel]

Ah that sucks, hopefully nothing was broken!

Well I juat got the x-ray but no interpretation. I am in good spirits all things considered, I have been playing more table tennis than even on some of my most TT driven periods ans I have been doing it at a more athletic level than I typically did even with my limitations. So I interprete this potentially as a divine intervention forcing me to take a break and see what happens. But hopefully I should get word on whether there is a fracture or not later today. I can't believe it will be anything more than a slight one if any. I can still somewhat walk (not on the heel though) and I will probably be able to feed multiball just not play table tennis or drill.

 

[Sims]

Well I juat got the x-ray but no interpretation. I am in good spirits all things considered, I have been playing more table tennis than even on some of my most TT driven periods ans I have been doing it at a more athletic level than I typically did even with my limitations. So I interprete this potentially as a divine intervention forcing me to take a break and see what happens. But hopefully I should get word on whether there is a fracture or not later today. I can't believe it will be anything more than a slight one if any. I can still somewhat walk (not on the heel though) and I will probably be able to feed multiball just not play table tennis or drill.

If the pain is in the heel there's a fair chance that it's something other than a fracture. Fingers crossed it's something small and you're back playing soon 🤞
Best of luck

 

[Tinykin]

How soon before we have a tt version of this -

 

[blahness]

Finally practiced some TT today. Finally got to practice a bit of looping the BH fast push of my heaviest hook sideunder serve with FH which I always had massive problems with. Luckily i was practising with a guy who put massive spin in those BH pushes, so I could test out various loop methods I was using. Pretty much figured out quickly which type of contact was the best to use. I had a more forward powerloop method which failed spectacularly (that only had 20% landing rates lol) - now I'm confident to just ditch it as it is useless.

It was still not easy but with the correct loop method it was a lot more manageable. I can do maybe 80% landing rates with that loop now.

 

[dingyibvs]

Finally practiced some TT today. Finally got to practice a bit of looping the BH fast push of my heaviest hook sideunder serve with FH which I always had massive problems with. Luckily i was practising with a guy who put massive spin in those BH pushes, so I could test out various loop methods I was using. Pretty much figured out quickly which type of contact was the best to use. I had a more forward powerloop method which failed spectacularly (that only had 20% landing rates lol) - now I'm confident to just ditch it as it is useless.

It was still not easy but with the correct loop method it was a lot more manageable. I can do maybe 80% landing rates with that loop now.

So what did you do? I have some problems with fast pushes to the BH as well.

 

[blahness]

So what did you do? I have some problems with fast pushes to the BH as well.

My default way of FH opening loops which works very well against reverse pendulum as well as serves without sidespin (and receives which produce the same spin combination) is initiated by the middle finger and brushing the ball around the 'outside' which is basically a hook loop. This pretty much doesnt work against this type of sideunderspin which curves into your body (ie same as FH pendulum sidespin) because there is way too much spin on the right side of the ball so it is almost impossible to overcome the spin there with good control. So what I found is that if I focus on index finger initiation + pronation, this will brush the ball directly from back of ball to top (the right side of the ball is almost untouched) which actually acts to 'avoid' the strong spin axis ironically. This is also how I loop against long FH pendulum now.

Obviously, you will still need to have good body usage to overcome the underspin and produce power, but this spin avoidance technique makes the job a lot easier.