Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[JeffM]

Are you recording these sessions that are giving you trouble?

I did not. I just didn't think of doing it.

But I will be recording my games at the comp.

 

[JeffM]

Got pissed off about my sudden lack of spin generation on the FH and decided to really take a look at it. I figured out how to reliably spin the ball with just the finger actions (first joint of index finger pressing down on the left side of the BH rubber, thumb pressing on the left side of the FH rubber to create a lever arm).

Also I think I played better with the Viscaria than the Harimoto ALC which is just a tad too slow for my liking, I'm losing a lot of rallies due to the lack of speed (Viscaria really helps when I'm in a bad position in terms of pace generation). I also dislike the balance on the Harimoto ALC, imo Viscaria really got the balance right. Sure short pushes are better on the Harimoto, but it's not like I push a lot anyway.... I very much prefer the chiquita/flick followed by strong two wing pressure looping after that.

I have been contemplating about going back to the viscaria too..
I have gotten used to the harimoto zlc, but I do miss the crisp feeling from viscaria.

I don't usually hit the table, but today, I managed to hit the table twice with my bh rubber.. first was opening up on a backspin ball that lands very close to the back edge of table, second one was trying to do backhand flip and somehow my bat got stuck by back edge of table.. So now that my bh rubber is damaged, I am tempted to change the rubber some time later and when I do that, I am thinking of going back to viscaria

 

[NextLevel]

I did not. I just didn't think of doing it.

But I will be recording my games at the comp.

Okay. My opinion is that when one is struggling, it is good to record to sometimes see whether you are doing anything obviously wrong. Sometimes, you are being too delusional (maybe not the right word, but you know what I mean) about your expectations in real time and reviewing what happens gives you context. Sometimes, I will say "I should have made that shot!" then I look at the video and see that the guy bumped the push and I say "well, gotta pay attention next time." My worst example, I am beating this guy 2-0 and then I start missing balls repeatedly. It never occurred to dumb old me that since the guy had pips on one side, he had started twiddling and I wasn't reading the twiddles. It was obvious on video, but I completely missed it in real time and kept wondering why I suddenly sucked lol!

 

[JeffM]

Yeah I get what you mean.
I think getting videos from the comp will be really good. I will be in 6 events, so even if I lose everything first match (lol), I should still theoretically have 6 match videos.

One thing I guess I am not happy with today is my fh flick, I realised how bad it is. I am able to put those short serves to my fh to the table but then there would be times where I can't even though I know it is not heavy backspin..
Just need more practice which is not something I have.

I seem to struggle ingame against backhand serve that has maybe pure reverse side spin. I am trying to bh flick but I should be waiting for it to come off the table or maybe 'block' with the bat instead. Maybe I am too aggressive to it.
Then there is the shovel serve that is half long with very light backspin into the middle of the table. I tend to move to the mid to use bh to flick but it just falls short always in front of the net. Maybe again I either wait for it to see if it goes over the back edge of table (hoping it does) or block with the right bat angle.

It is just frustrating to see myself struggle against serves repeatedly. Maybe I am just taking things too seriously.

 

[Der_Echte]

It is just frustrating to see myself struggle against serves repeatedly. Maybe I am just taking things too seriously.

yes and no. Serve receive is a seriously large part of the game and you are correctly concerned, but it doesn't happen overnight in many aspects of TT improvement.

After the tourney, mess around with different "Go" times for your receive... GO time means the moment you initiate your step to the ball.

maybe you step too soon, maybe too late.

For your basic flip, try to start the step once ball gets a touch past halfway... and mess around with a little later timing... For banana, wait for ball to get to almost net before you step.

Getting to position where you plant and right away make your strike helps your shot consistency and quality a lot.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I think its nice to try and be aggressive on a service return, but in a match, you need to know where to call "enough is enough" and go for a more conservative approach and make sure the rally is kept alive.

Modern TT Pros make flicks look great.
What you can look at is drop the ball short, and if the opponent drops shorts again, is to go for the BH flick/FH flick there. By then the side spins will be gone/reduced.
If they push mid long or long, then you are out of your flicking zone and I hope your attacking zone is better.

Basically, if plan A doesn't work, go to plan B very quickly.
Don't give 2 points away for plan A
then 2 points later, you give another 2 away again.
That is 2-4 best case for you and going to be giving you more pressure.

If you do make a mistake reading the service and going back with a drop shot.
Then get ready to counter an attack.
it is still better than giving the point away on your 1st touch.

 

[blahness]

I have been contemplating about going back to the viscaria too..
I have gotten used to the harimoto zlc, but I do miss the crisp feeling from viscaria.

I don't usually hit the table, but today, I managed to hit the table twice with my bh rubber.. first was opening up on a backspin ball that lands very close to the back edge of table, second one was trying to do backhand flip and somehow my bat got stuck by back edge of table.. So now that my bh rubber is damaged, I am tempted to change the rubber some time later and when I do that, I am thinking of going back to viscaria

There's something about the head balance of the Viscaria that makes it so pleasant to play with, and the direct approach just makes topspins so much easier to execute with less effort.

My nerve inflammation issues flared up again after using the Harimoto ALC. Unfortunately I loved the pushes when using the Harimoto ALC but it was at the expense of having an easy to use chiquita even against really heavy pure backspin. Also flicks are just more crisp and easier using the Viscaria.

I guess one really cannot have everything you have to choose between various pros and cons of different blades.

 

[blahness]

Yeah I get what you mean.
I think getting videos from the comp will be really good. I will be in 6 events, so even if I lose everything first match (lol), I should still theoretically have 6 match videos.

One thing I guess I am not happy with today is my fh flick, I realised how bad it is. I am able to put those short serves to my fh to the table but then there would be times where I can't even though I know it is not heavy backspin..
Just need more practice which is not something I have.

I seem to struggle ingame against backhand serve that has maybe pure reverse side spin. I am trying to bh flick but I should be waiting for it to come off the table or maybe 'block' with the bat instead. Maybe I am too aggressive to it.
Then there is the shovel serve that is half long with very light backspin into the middle of the table. I tend to move to the mid to use bh to flick but it just falls short always in front of the net. Maybe again I either wait for it to see if it goes over the back edge of table (hoping it does) or block with the right bat angle.

It is just frustrating to see myself struggle against serves repeatedly. Maybe I am just taking things too seriously.

Quick tip for the BH flick, if you think about rotating the entire upper body rather than the arm, you will see a significant boost in power and ability to "cancel" out incoming spin thus an increased stability. Same with the FH flick.

The other thing is of course doing safer receives like FH sideswipe or BH sidespin push (around the left side of the ball). No need to take unnecessary risks imo.

 

[blahness]

Changed back to Viscaria + double Dignics 05 and played my best table tennis today - I felt I even had the advantage in the later games with my combination penholder partner.

I feel like this setup is just such a joy to use and attack with. Chiquitas and FH flicks are so easy to execute against any spin, and the head balance is just perfect for looping. I immediately got all my lost spin back. Unbelievable that I looped a lot spinnier with Viscaria than Harimoto ALC. With it my two wing loops and flicks became a lot more oppressive towards my penhold opponent instead of being punch blocked and angle blocked to death. It was ultimately just a shot quality issue as someone on this thread noted. The pushing is of course horrible with this bouncy setup (I attempted a few short pushes during games, they popped up for easy kills lmao and I stopped doing it).

 

[Wrighty67]

Changed back to Viscaria + double Dignics 05 and played my best table tennis today - I felt I even had the advantage in the later games with my combination penholder partner.

I feel like this setup is just such a joy to use and attack with. Chiquitas and FH flicks are so easy to execute against any spin, and the head balance is just perfect for looping. I immediately got all my lost spin back. Unbelievable that I looped a lot spinnier with Viscaria than Harimoto ALC. With it my two wing loops and flicks became a lot more oppressive towards my penhold opponent instead of being punch blocked and angle blocked to death. It was ultimately just a shot quality issue as someone on this thread noted. The pushing is of course horrible with this bouncy setup (I attempted a few short pushes during games, they popped up for easy kills lmao and I stopped doing it).

Very interesting - I can relate to this 100%

I have two lovely Viscaria's - both really good blades, and I love them to bits. Whenever I play with them I find myself thinking - how did I ever put these down?

Then I play a match or two and find my consistency suffering, particularly in more tense situations - I lack short control and I can lose control of my better shots (Topspins) and hit long. This leads me to holding back and tightening up etc (As fas as winning matches goes I am afraid, for me, I rely on control around the net, serve return and controlled loops - penetration is not a win / lose for me at this stage)

Then I go back to my slightly slower inner blades - Innerforce ALC / Nittaku H2 and stay with those. I can either try to control the Viscaria's with slower rubber (Rozena / Vega pro etc) or I can play my preferred rubbers (Z2 / T05) on my inner blades...

As of now I am still not 100% on which is better, but err towards the inner blades (until I pick up a Viscaria again and marvel at what it can do for me in practice..)

 

[blahness]

Very interesting - I can relate to this 100%

I have two lovely Viscaria's - both really good blades, and I love them to bits. Whenever I play with them I find myself thinking - how did I ever put these down?

Then I play a match or two and find my consistency suffering, particularly in more tense situations - I lack short control and I can lose control of my better shots (Topspins) and hit long. This leads me to holding back and tightening up etc (As fas as winning matches goes I am afraid, for me, I rely on control around the net, serve return and controlled loops - penetration is not a win / lose for me at this stage)

Then I go back to my slightly slower inner blades - Innerforce ALC / Nittaku H2 and stay with those. I can either try to control the Viscaria's with slower rubber (Rozena / Vega pro etc) or I can play my preferred rubbers (Z2 / T05) on my inner blades...

As of now I am still not 100% on which is better, but err towards the inner blades (until I pick up a Viscaria again and marvel at what it can do for me in practice..)

Yes, one of my practice partners swears by innerforce type blades. He plays a much more control game with a bomb spinny af straight arm FH loop with boosted Hurricane 3. His short push control is definitely quite a bit better than me.

The only way I win against him is by forcing BH-BH topspin rallies against him where I'm usually favoured which I think is one of the key advantages of outer carbon blades like Viscaria. If he manages to force me to push too much I'm usually gonna lose 😂 I gotta say Viscaria + D05 is a trash pushing combo.

 

[NextLevel]

Very interesting - I can relate to this 100%

I have two lovely Viscaria's - both really good blades, and I love them to bits. Whenever I play with them I find myself thinking - how did I ever put these down?

Then I play a match or two and find my consistency suffering, particularly in more tense situations - I lack short control and I can lose control of my better shots (Topspins) and hit long. This leads me to holding back and tightening up etc (As fas as winning matches goes I am afraid, for me, I rely on control around the net, serve return and controlled loops - penetration is not a win / lose for me at this stage)

Then I go back to my slightly slower inner blades - Innerforce ALC / Nittaku H2 and stay with those. I can either try to control the Viscaria's with slower rubber (Rozena / Vega pro etc) or I can play my preferred rubbers (Z2 / T05) on my inner blades...

As of now I am still not 100% on which is better, but err towards the inner blades (until I pick up a Viscaria again and marvel at what it can do for me in practice..)

It's partly because the approach to using them is inadequate, faster blades require more precise timing and aggression, but unless you are making quick reads and being aggressive with quick swings, you do precisely the opposite when you miss, and this causes a vicious spiral unless you have found a safe game to play with them - trying to play more passive with a fast blade is a recipe for disaster, even passive play requires a form of activity, so to speak.

I've personally determined I can't play with anything other than hybrid rubbers and it is going to stay that way, no matter what blade I use if it is composite. I just need that spin. If I use all wood, then I have more options. Using D05 on a composite blade, I just have lost the ability to do it without lots of practice. Right now I am going to try an interesting experiment, using my Joola set up alternating with a Cybershape with my Joola rubbers but with a twist - I will not use the protector sheets on the Cybershape - I want to see what Golden Tango becomes when I don't use protector sheets. I find that I enjoy Golden Tango a lot when it is older, and I am thinking maybe it is the less tack making it play a bit faster, so I want to see whether I should just head in that direction when I get new sheets. All that said, I play really close to the table, almost off the bounce all the time, someone who steps back to loop might have different priorities.

 

[Wrighty67]

It's partly because the approach to using them is inadequate, faster blades require more precise timing and aggression, but unless you are making quick reads and being aggressive with quick swings, you do precisely the opposite when you miss, and this causes a vicious spiral unless you have found a safe game to play with them - trying to play more passive with a fast blade is a recipe for disaster, even passive play requires a form of activity, so to speak.

I've personally determined I can't play with anything other than hybrid rubbers and it is going to stay that way, no matter what blade I use if it is composite. I just need that spin. If I use all wood, then I have more options. Using D05 on a composite blade, I just have lost the ability to do it without lots of practice. Right now I am going to try an interesting experiment, using my Joola set up alternating with a Cybershape with my Joola rubbers but with a twist - I will not use the protector sheets on the Cybershape - I want to see what Golden Tango becomes when I don't use protector sheets. I find that I enjoy Golden Tango a lot when it is older, and I am thinking maybe it is the less tack making it play a bit faster, so I want to see whether I should just head in that direction when I get new sheets. All that said, I play really close to the table, almost off the bounce all the time, someone who steps back to loop might have different priorities.

Makes sense NL..

My thinking is that I enjoy the crispness and linearity of the faster Viscaria and this still comes through with slightly harder, slower rubbers - the reduced bounciness in comparison to say T05 just gives me a little more security. However I also enjoy the dynamics and penetration of faster rubbers on the inner blade.

I have been trying Z2 of late - that is a very interesting and high performing rubber that offers more control than T05.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Makes sense NL..

My thinking is that I enjoy the crispness and linearity of the faster Viscaria and this still comes through with slightly harder, slower rubbers - the reduced bounciness in comparison to say T05 just gives me a little more security. However I also enjoy the dynamics and penetration of faster rubbers on the inner blade.

I have been trying Z2 of late - that is a very interesting and high performing rubber that offers more control than T05.

High performing, definitely yes. More control, I'm not sure about that.

 

[NextLevel]

Makes sense NL..

My thinking is that I enjoy the crispness and linearity of the faster Viscaria and this still comes through with slightly harder, slower rubbers - the reduced bounciness in comparison to say T05 just gives me a little more security. However I also enjoy the dynamics and penetration of faster rubbers on the inner blade.

I have been trying Z2 of late - that is a very interesting and high performing rubber that offers more control than T05.

Never tried Z2, but with a few exceptions (catapulty, softer stuff), I have usually found ESN stuff more *intuitive* to me than Tenergy for control play, though Tenergy 05 for spin play was the Godfather back then, and my spin game was such a strength that it evened out. But since Dignics 09c is the top Butterfly hybrid, and I don't see any real advantages for me of 09c over Golden Tango, I have closed the discussion for the time being. Z2 is something I would have to try on someone else's blade to see whether it would interest me. I have stuck my D05 sheets on my Mazunov until further notice lol.

 

[Wrighty67]

I have stuck my D05 sheets on my Mazunov until further notice lol.

Now that’s a combo that’ll do some damage…

 

[Wrighty67]

High performing, definitely yes. More control, I'm not sure about that.

Much more - not even close in short game / serve return in my experience

 

[NextLevel]

Now that’s a combo that’ll do some damage…

I put them on a Korbel (still my favorite looping blade), but the blocks were just too hard to perform coming from carbon.

 

[latej]

When you have this day, where soo many balls go over the net out, do you also tend to blame it on evaporating booster?

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

I was watching Sanctuary https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_(Japanese_TV_series) on Netflix recently and this exercise / warm-up routine caught my attention.

So out of curiosity and just for LOL, I tried it for a week. Three sets on each side for 5 reps daily for a week.

I am surprise the lower portion muscle became taut and toned almost immediately.

I recommend it if one is fairly fit and has strong lower body.

I train it for explosive power!