Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[JJ Ng]

I think the one thing other experienced members of my club are having me do is work on guiding the ball on my strokes, especially off of the bounce. A lot of consistency drills with every permutation of forehand and backhand with focus on where to contact the ball. Watching this then going back into a coaching session really clicked with me on what to do (

). The back of my arm is pretty sore today.

Same philosophy for the doing loops off of backspin.

When I started learning table tennis, I would take 1-2 weeks off from the sport here and there because I was busy studying, trying to get into university. Whenever I came back to the training center, my timing would be off: my elbow not tight and my wrist all over the place. Every time that happened, my coach's wife would work with me to hit the ball off the bounce, OVER the table, over and over again to get my timing and my feel back on track. We would just hit lightly over the table, and I would borrow her ball's momentum to carry the ball back over the net. It worked every single time. After 10 minutes of such exercise, I was able to get my muscle memory back and started the lessons finally.

I even do that today whenever I work with a robot. The first two minutes are just me putting my paddle stationary and blocking each ball back. Then I would hit the ball slowly over the table for a few minutes. Then I would take one step away from the table and hit the balls at the top of the bounce. Then I would take another half a step back and loop the balls right off the top of the bounce. Then I would take a few steps back and loop mid-distance.

After that cycle, I would rinse and repeat. Do a couple cycles of that, I am ready for whatever drills is next with the robot or hitting with other people.

The video of the training session between Hiroe Imai and Scott Land is interesting and you can learn a lot from it.

One, you can see Hiroe Imai does exactly what I am saying, blocking the ball in front of her lightly while Scott looped the ball. When you see Hiroe Imai do a forehand push, you can also see her moving her body close to the ball and brushing the ball in front of her eyes/body. Every good player should do that with every single stroke.

Two, Hiroe Imai had to ask Scott Land to move his elbow up. The reason is, when you loop, you have to commit to each stroke. And in order to commit to each stroke, every player needs to understand his or her equipment and "trust" his or her blade. When you are looping, the whole body is in motion and in sync. You cannot change your mind. And that's one of the biggest problem I see when a newbie is set up by the club coach with Viscaria along with T05 on both sides. Because the equipment is so fast, the newbies are afraid to hit the ball out. Then from the beginning, they get in the habit of not doing a full stroke and that shows when they try to advance their techniques.

Three, Hiroe Imai did a good job to push one ball to Scott and let him loop one backspin ball. Then she will block one top spin ball back to him and let Scott loop one top spin ball. Then end of the drill!!!

The reason for the drill is that, one, Scott should learn how to loop a back spin and follow up with learning how to loop a top spin. However, once that's done, the drill is finished. There is no point for Scott to keep on looping top spin return after top spin return because 1) Scott is still trying to learn the muscle memory of looping a back spin ball and 2) at Scott's level, after two loops, his opponent, assuming also at Scott's level, is done. Either Scott wins the point or the opponent would win the point. The point would be finished. So in a way, Hiroe Imai is trying to do a drill that will simulate Scott's reall match and at the same time, not waste his time. I was browsing YouTube videos when I came across a video where clearly two USATT 1000 level players were taking a group class lesson. The coach was asking them to open the rally and loop top spin back and forth. I was shaking my head because what is the likelihood of two USATT 1000 level players ever going to loop and counter top spins in a rally? At their level it is more important to teach them how to feel their equipment, how to push back spins, how to block to various corners of the table, and how to loop back spin. Not looping and countering a top spin rally. Maybe they are adult students and they want to advance quickly so the coach obliged. But that is one bad drill and waste of time for USATT 1000 level players.

 

[NextLevel]

I think the one thing other experienced members of my club are having me do is work on guiding the ball on my strokes, especially off of the bounce. A lot of consistency drills with every permutation of forehand and backhand with focus on where to contact the ball. Watching this then going back into a coaching session really clicked with me on what to do (

). The back of my arm is pretty sore today.

Same philosophy for the doing loops off of backspin.

This one is for you, @OvrChkn she discusses some of the issues with lining up the stroke, swing size and why sometimes you need to use arm straightening to get the stroke to work in a more relaxed fashion (and this can be true if you don't intend to impart topspin per se but you also don't want to bend your knees too much).

 

[OvrChkn]

This one is for you, @OvrChkn she discusses some of the issues with lining up the stroke, swing size and why sometimes you need to use arm straightening to get the stroke to work in a more relaxed fashion (and this can be true if you don't intend to impart topspin per se but you also don't want to bend your knees too much).

Thanks for the link. I think the main part that I see when talking about using the lower part of the arm, but not explicitly discussed in the video, is using the elbow as the pivot point on FH/BH. The part about going down on your stroke slightly lower is interesting too.

 

[NextLevel]

Thanks for the link. I think the main part that I see when talking about using the lower part of the arm, but not explicitly discussed in the video, is using the elbow as the pivot point on FH/BH. The part about going down on your stroke slightly lower is interesting too.

Yes, using the elbow as the pivot point on both sides is very important - to me, it is what makes footwork and transition possible, though in full context, the forehand is really a hip stroke, while the backhand is more of an elbow stroke so to speak - what I mean is that you rotate the body to backswing on the forehand, on the backhand, not so much. The main reason I recommended the video was because of your shoulder soreness. Sometimes, people don't straighten the lower arm and think they are using less shoulder when they are actually making their shoulder tighter the less they straighten the arm. There is a sweet spot somewhere in there, but I don't have the perfect video for it.

 

[SamTheMan]

I think the one thing other experienced members of my club are having me do is work on guiding the ball on my strokes, especially off of the bounce. A lot of consistency drills with every permutation of forehand and backhand with focus on where to contact the ball. Watching this then going back into a coaching session really clicked with me on what to do (

). The back of my arm is pretty sore today.

Same philosophy for the doing loops off of backspin.

Thanks for sharing. 🙏 Great video!

 

[dingyibvs]

Traveled to Almeda TT Gym with LDM7... I did league and managed to watch a small amount of his games.

I struggle in that gym with light glare, high walls and ceiling light, and those old BTY tables have the friction coefficient of sandpaper. Any kind of light underspin ball that is not moving fast will not skid and continue towards you, it will stop like brake check. This is tough vs a certain Medium Pips dude who gets you to attack and drops it short with the help of the table.

Close games at 11-9 or 13-11... but i went 2 games down... on top of the inherent difficulties, he managed 3 nets a game... then in game 3, when I was 3-4 down, he managed another 4 nets (after already getting an edge and a net) to get me down 3-9.

The positive thing is i told myself he didn't get 11 yet... but he sure had momentum and I had low single digit odds of winning even 1 game. I manage to get to 8-9 and 8- 10 and 10-10... think I had to win at 13-11. Down in game 4 and managed to win 11-9... down in game 5 and at the end it was 8-10 with me serving. managed to get to 10-10 and won 12-10 I think.

That is my main take away, won when down 3-9 in 3rd game vs a player who won vs me 3-1 in close sets so many months ago and i do not see the ball well or play worth crap in that gym for competing.

My mental performance is going up and is a help, I need it from not doing much competitive singles the last couple years and it dropped my tourney level a lot.

Whoa, I played there once, shortly before I got injured (like the day before!). There were many times when I got ready to loop a half-long backspin only to realize late that it's a little shorter than I expected and had to do a late, poor quality push. I thought I was just not judging the ball well, didn't think about the effect of the table! There was a guy who loves to lob, and it's so easy to lose the ball in those lights too!

 

[NextLevel]

Whoa, I played there once, shortly before I got injured (like the day before!). There were many times when I got ready to loop a half-long backspin only to realize late that it's a little shorter than I expected and had to do a late, poor quality push. I thought I was just not judging the ball well, didn't think about the effect of the table! There was a guy who loves to lob, and it's so easy to lose the ball in those lights too!

Yeah, if you play in the US and you don't train your mindset to be adaptable to lots of crap, and even if you do (because tables and balls and flooring and lighting and space ans ceilings vary quite a bit), you will always find something that effs you. The first time I went to Nationals in Vegas, I didnt know how to put t hr ball on the table. Took me a few days to accept the altitude.

 

[JeffM]

I played tt today.

First up, I played with a player in his 60s i estimate, and he likes pushes, and likes to punch topspins. He has a handicap difference from me, so I start off -4, while he starts at 0. I didn't really get any proper warm up and not been playing for 2.5 weeks so things were rusty, but we started off. I won the first set, but he won second, then I won third, and he won the fourth. At that stage, it seemed like that one side is always the winning side. I had to make a stop to it, and luckily I did, so I won the next 2 and finished the game 4-2. I dislike the handicap system, as I don't feel right when I win points and I am still in the minus lol. He did some good punches off my loops and puts bit of pressure on me. I almost wish that someone can loop to me and I can practice doing those punches because that is what I need. Anyway, I think there was a point where I did 3 consecutive loop and he was punching it back to me 3 times and then eventually the last one I got the point. He knew it was good and he enjoyed it too.

2nd match, I play against the 2nd strongest player in the club. He is the guy that beat me when I first got to that place with 4-3. He beat me pretty badly in first set today, something like 11-4. Then I came back and won 4-1. Perhaps just the rustiness but I picked up my game after the first set.

3rd match, I saw there was a guy who came first time to the club, and he came with his own bat! I thought that shows he means bussiness. Watching him play others a little bit earlier, it seemed like he could hold his own a bit.
So I went up and asked him if he wants to play. I have over-estimated him, and he was unable to really return my serves. So I ended up giving him free balls in my serves and just practicing going back far behind the table and doing some lobing. 4-0.

4th match: I played against the only young adult in the club. Nothing much to report, but wasn't hard, I lost 1 set, and so I won 3-1 and he had to leave.

Somewhere I think in the 4th match, I sprained my right ankle. Not exactly sure how I did it, but it felt painful. I still managed to finish off the match. I was worried that it might be bad, as it did hurt when I moved around, but it is feeling better now, and I don't notice it on walking. I will take it easy for the next few days. Probably going to stop skipping for a week and just let it heal completely. I won't be able to play any tt for a while as well so that helps.

 

[disaster3]

Everything was fine in terms of my progress and training plans. Day by day it was getting better, but every morning when I got out of bed, my right heel hurt like hell until I walked a little.
I scheduled visit with an orthopedist but I found in internet I think I'm struggling with "heel spurs" (don't know exact medical term but seems that it is it). I can't shift my center of gravity to my right foot because it hurts.😭
I'm really pi**** off because it seems to some break from training/playing!!!! 😢
I wish I was 20 years younger, when nothing hurts, and you wake up full of energy w/o any pain 😞

 

[SamTheMan]

Everything was fine in terms of my progress and training plans. Day by day it was getting better, but every morning when I got out of bed, my right heel hurt like hell until I walked a little.
I scheduled visit with an orthopedist but I found in internet I think I'm struggling with "heel spurs" (don't know exact medical term but seems that it is it). I can't shift my center of gravity to my right foot because it hurts.😭
I'm really pi**** off because it seems to some break from training/playing!!!! 😢
I wish I was 20 years younger, when nothing hurts, and you wake up full of energy w/o any pain 😞

It’s called plantar fasciitis. I got plantar fasciitis one year after I started table tennis. I changed all my shoes. For table tennis I changed to a Yonex shoe with great cushioning and I bought an extra insole. I played table tennis 2-3 times a week during that period. That solved the problem for me, but it took about 6 months.
I know the pain. I hope you recover soon!

 

[JeffM]

Everything was fine in terms of my progress and training plans. Day by day it was getting better, but every morning when I got out of bed, my right heel hurt like hell until I walked a little.
I scheduled visit with an orthopedist but I found in internet I think I'm struggling with "heel spurs" (don't know exact medical term but seems that it is it). I can't shift my center of gravity to my right foot because it hurts.😭
I'm really pi**** off because it seems to some break from training/playing!!!! 😢
I wish I was 20 years younger, when nothing hurts, and you wake up full of energy w/o any pain 😞

My friend was diagnosed with this recently (he's in his 20s). He often stomps during his serves and when he hits big shots, he tends to make large movements with his legs and lands heavy on his feet, so that is most likely the cause for him.

He is improving with rest + exercise from physio for stretches.

Wish you a smooth recovery.

 

[disaster3]

@SamTheMan I'm playing with BTY Rifones. This one:

Thought, They are good. I have a slim foot and most of Mizuno are wide but as far as I recall correctly this started happening when was playing more often, Previously ~2x a week (1.5 hrs each session) and from the beginning of Sep 4x a week (2hrs each session)
@JeffM thanks I'm waiting for visit with an orthopedist and in the meantime I found that following exercises should help and cooling the foot with a compress

 

[SamTheMan]

@SamTheMan I'm playing with BTY Rifones. This one:
View attachment 26928
Thought, They are good. I have a slim foot and most of Mizuno are wide but as far as I recall correctly this started happening when was playing more often, Previously ~2x a week (1.5 hrs each session) and from the beginning of Sep 4x a week (2hrs each session)
@JeffM thanks I'm waiting for visit with an orthopedist and in the meantime I found that following exercises should help and cooling the foot with a compress
View attachment 26929
View attachment 26930
View attachment 26931

Those shoes are probably good. But an extra insole could help you. I bought insoles to my daily shoes as well and changed my daily shoes from the “Stan Smith” type to sneakers for running.

Those exercises are great, they felt great. But I didn’t have the patience to do them in the long run. The ball under the foot felt great. I also did some toe raises or heel raises, don’t know what you call it in english.

 

[disaster3]

Those shoes are probably good. But an extra insole could help you. I bought insoles to my daily shoes as well and changed my daily shoes from the “Stan Smith” type to sneakers for running.

Those exercises are great, they felt great. But I didn’t have the patience to do them in the long run. The ball under the foot felt great. I also did some toe raises or heel raises, don’t know what you call it in english.

Additional insole will make inside too small for my foot so it will not work. I had to buy bigger size taking into account 2 insoles.
But I found my previous shoes which are not for tables tennis but for handball or volleyball do not remember. They are dedicated indoor and have quite good cushioning, their size are bigger than BTY so even 2 insoles might work as well.

 

[JeffM]

Additional insole will make inside too small for my foot so it will not work. I had to buy bigger size taking into account 2 insoles.
But I found my previous shoes which are not for tables tennis but for handball or volleyball do not remember. They are dedicated indoor and have quite good cushioning, their size are bigger than BTY so even 2 insoles might work as well.
View attachment 26937View attachment 26938

I'm not a shoe expert, but the sole of the shoe in the picture looks quite thick, whereas TT shoes tend to have thinner soles which gives more stability for sideway movements. Having a thicker sole can increase your chance of rolling your ankles. Instead of having 2 insoles, you can see your podiatrist and get a custom made orthotic.
Best to bring your shoes to the podiatrist and they will see what is best for you.

 

[NextLevel]

I'm not a shoe expert, but the sole of the shoe in the picture looks quite thick, whereas TT shoes tend to have thinner soles which gives more stability for sideway movements. Having a thicker sole can increase your chance of rolling your ankles. Instead of having 2 insoles, you can see your podiatrist and get a custom made orthotic.
Best to bring your shoes to the podiatrist and they will see what is best for you.

In general, modern popular sneaker design does things that are dangerous for the natural movement of the bare foot. It will be interesting to see how long things continue before they change.

 

[Jslick89]

In general, modern popular sneaker design does things that are dangerous for the natural movement of the bare foot. It will be interesting to see how long things continue before they change.

This is why i play with Vivo Barefoot shoes! (took a year of training my feet and legs before i felt confident and knew i had the strength to play in barefoot shoes without injuring myself though). my feet and legs have never felt stronger.

Modern shoes literally deform your feet. You know how when you break your wrist and they put you in a cast for a month or so? And how weak your arm feels when you get out of the cast? that's essentially what modern footwear is doing to your feet.

EDIT: Also, I remember i used to wear Brooks running to the gym. I used to run about 10 or so miles a week. nothing crazy but definitely a lot of sprinting involved in those ten miles. i developed horrible shin splints. i didn't know why i had these when i was wearing $100+ high end running shoes. turns out the supreme cushion in these shoes were disguising the injuries i was developing from an improper running form.

 

[disaster3]

I'm not a shoe expert, but the sole of the shoe in the picture looks quite thick, whereas TT shoes tend to have thinner soles which gives more stability for sideway movements. Having a thicker sole can increase your chance of rolling your ankles. Instead of having 2 insoles, you can see your podiatrist and get a custom made orthotic.
Best to bring your shoes to the podiatrist and they will see what is best for you.

Hmm so I need to maybe look on Yonax but they are not for table tennis but for tennis or badminton which the feet movement are similar to table tennis but additional there are jumps so maybe in terms of cushioning they do better.🤔
Or to change genuine insole in my BTY rifones to orthopedic one. For sure I will take them to doctor to let him check and to know what should I do.

 

[Der_Echte]

I had Plantar Fasciitis and getting inserts for my daily wear shoes cured me quickly every day within two weeks.

For maintenance, I wear the inserts on daily shoes, and no extra inserts in my TT shoes.
First insert was a custom mold plastic.. after that was Pinnacle Power Step, which are often given out at hospitals to PF sufferers.

 

[disaster3]

I had Plantar Fasciitis and getting inserts for my daily wear shoes cured me quickly every day within two weeks.

For maintenance, I wear the inserts on daily shoes, and no extra inserts in my TT shoes.
First insert was a custom mold plastic.. after that was Pinnacle Power Step, which are often given out at hospitals to PF sufferers.

looks quite good but not available in Poland only abroad with long delivery time. I found something similar here with 24hrs delivery. I'll give it a try.