Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Tyce]

Yup, learned back when my wife was down with a hernia that movement up to pain treshold can be very beneficial to recovery. More bloodflow, retention of muscle mass as well as coordination etc.

I took the opportunity during lunch break here to hit every FH using mostly body rotation as base for the movement. Interesting part being that it actually wasn't that hard to use the premade "carbon"-ish Joola bats here when putting my body into it. Another step where it feels I'm re-learning the basics but then good

Could this finally be the time I get rid of this awkward T-Rex FH loop? (Elbow stuck to my body, swing with what little arm is left)

 

[OvrChkn]

I've been watching too many Ma Jinbao games cause now I'm increasing my usage of the reverse pendulum serves to a higher degree of success compared to regular pendulum. Shovel and backhand serves are seeing more usage too this month so far.

 

[NextLevel]

I've been watching too many Ma Jinbao games cause now I'm increasing my usage of the reverse pendulum serves to a higher degree of success compared to regular pendulum. Shovel and backhand serves are seeing more usage too this month so far.

I need to watch more Ma Jinbao too if that is what it takes lol!

 

[OvrChkn]

I need to watch more Ma Jinbao too if that is what it takes lol!

His serve positions on the table made me think more about the serve receive game, so I've been experimenting with taking serves in the middle and far on the forehand side to see what I can get out of it. He's a tall player too, so seeing what he does + Dima and Franziska help out a lot.

It's honestly a switch that flipped once I started doing more multiball drills + shortening my forehand. I'm starting to be more comfortable with doing my serves in the middle of the table and it sets up the forehand nicely if I place everything short to the opponent's forehand. My coach has been drilling on my 3rd ball attack and now we're piecing it together with my service game. Reverse and shovel are the ones we found where I can get into position better to attack.

 

[kindof99]

His serve positions on the table made me think more about the serve receive game, so I've been experimenting with taking serves in the middle and far on the forehand side to see what I can get out of it. He's a tall player too, so seeing what he does + Dima and Franziska help out a lot.

It's honestly a switch that flipped once I started doing more multiball drills + shortening my forehand. I'm starting to be more comfortable with doing my serves in the middle of the table and it sets up the forehand nicely if I place everything short to the opponent's forehand. My coach has been drilling on my 3rd ball attack and now we're piecing it together with my service game. Reverse and shovel are the ones we found where I can get into position better to attack.

Shovel serve is much easier to learn and execute than reverse pendulum serve.

 

[blahness]

Played today after a few weeks of not playing. Unsurprisingly the first few games my touch was all off, my short pushes all went too short and went into the net, and all my long pushes went out of the table. Lol...

Luckily my trusty BH and chiquita game was still dangerous enough to keep me close in the games. Lost a few and then won them back later.

I really hate FH looping quality low deep fast sideunderspin which curves into my body (regardless of whether it is from serves or receives), this variant of sidespin + underspin gets me every time ugh. I trained against it a lot last session and improved but today receiving it was a disaster again. Wtf I need some refresher lessons on this.

I did some multiball towards the end to train against this ball and got a little better at controlling it (still not at 70% success unfortunately), but it is still hard.

 

[dingyibvs]

Played today after a few weeks of not playing. Unsurprisingly the first few games my touch was all off, my short pushes all went too short and went into the net, and all my long pushes went out of the table. Lol...

Luckily my trusty BH and chiquita game was still dangerous enough to keep me close in the games. Lost a few and then won them back later.

I really hate FH looping quality low deep fast sideunderspin which curves into my body (regardless of whether it is from serves or receives), this variant of sidespin + underspin gets me every time ugh. I trained against it a lot last session and improved but today receiving it was a disaster again. Wtf I need some refresher lessons on this.

I did some multiball towards the end to train against this ball and got a little better at controlling it (still not at 70% success unfortunately), but it is still hard.

Hah, that side under has a high whiff rate with me.

 

[blahness]

Hah, that side under has a high whiff rate with me.

This fast low deep side under will come from opponent's BH receive of my hook serve or from their FH pendulum serve...

I specifically train FH looping against them now, it's really annoying how many points I lose from these balls.

 

[kindof99]

I have a little problem with a shovel side under to the middle. Backhand loop is not really working easily against it.

For half long, I feel a long push is a better return for most amateurs.

 

[dingyibvs]

I have a little problem with a shovel side under to the middle. Backhand loop is not really working easily against it.

For half long, I feel a long push is a better return for most amateurs.

I'm having some trouble with banana flicking half-long services in general. They come a little fast for me to get good dwell, I can't seem to catch the ball reliably.

 

[kindof99]

I'm having some trouble with banana flicking half-long services in general. They come a little fast for me to get good dwell, I can't seem to catch the ball reliably.

Banana flick probably is not an optimal way. I think a half backhand loop, half banana flick is better? Starting backswing a little away from the net and moving close to the coming ball?

 

[Der_Echte]

I have a little problem with a shovel side under to the middle. Backhand loop is not really working easily against it.

For half long, I feel a long push is a better return for most amateurs.

Kindof...

Try this.

If you see this serve coming and are REALLY trying to BH loop it (if you are a right handed player)... and the ball is coming to your middle a little or a lot...

TAKE A STEP with your right foot to the right... a quick step a foot or so depending on the ball... so that your right foot is now outside the ball (right foot is to the right of incoming ball)... and now you have created enough space for the ball to be in your strike zone.

One further adjustment is to slide your lower arm and elbow to the right some to create additional adjustment to get ball in center of strike zone.

NOW you are in good enough position and leverage to use your BH to attack with much more quality and landing percentage.

Proper classic coaches will raely advocate to do this... since the PROPER response is to step around and use more dynamic and powerful forehand... but reality is amateurs often see the ball and decide on a BH... so since the player is committed to use a BH, why not get better position and leverage and give the player much better chances?

Often that attack wins the point or sets it up.

The player's weight is inside the stance anyway, so recovery is not hampered.

 

[kindof99]

I'm having some trouble with banana flicking half-long services in general. They come a little fast for me to get good dwell, I can't seem to catch the ball reliably.

Banana flick probably is not an optimal way. I think a half backhand loop, half banana flick is better? Starting backswing a little away from the net and moving close to the coming ball?

Kindof...

Try this.

If you see this serve coming and are REALLY trying to BH loop it (if you are a right handed player)... and the ball is coming to your middle a little or a lot...

TAKE A STEP with your right foot to the right... a quick step a foot or so depending on the ball... so that your right foot is now outside the ball (right foot is to the right of incoming ball)... and now you have created enough space for the ball to be in your strike zone.

One further adjustment is to slide your lower arm and elbow to the right some to create additional adjustment to get ball in center of strike zone.

NOW you are in good enough position and leverage to use your BH to attack with much more quality and landing percentage.

Proper classic coaches will raely advocate to do this... since the PROPER response is to step around and use more dynamic and powerful forehand... but reality is amateurs often see the ball and decide on a BH... so since the player is committed to use a BH, why not get better position and leverage and give the player much better chances?

Often that attack wins the point or sets it up.

The player's weight is inside the stance anyway, so recovery is not hampered.

I think the problem is that I can't time the ball well with the ball curving into my backhand to loop. Overall, I should probably loop on the right side of the ball to make it easy to lift the backspin. Just need to try more.

 

[blahness]

I have a little problem with a shovel side under to the middle. Backhand loop is not really working easily against it.

For half long, I feel a long push is a better return for most amateurs.

i usually use the BH, contact a bit to the left (not too much) and open racket accordingly depending on underspin component. But the main problem is that positionally, it will curve towards your FH if it lands more to the middle so it is super easy to get jammed if you try using BH. It is way easier to take this particular serve with a FH. If you loop with FH against this serve it is good to hook it a bit (not too much!)- this way you go with the spin instead of against it which makes it much easier to control the ball.

 

[blahness]

I'm having some trouble with banana flicking half-long services in general. They come a little fast for me to get good dwell, I can't seem to catch the ball reliably.

This is the hard part about chiquita. I think of it as a sliding scale where I use increasingly more components the longer it is. Super short serves i pretty much focus on thumb+index finger action to supinate around the ball (anything more and my unforced errors go up like crazy). Medium short serves i add in more of the forearm action and for half long serves it becomes more like the full stroke BH loop. You can't use the same stroke for balls of all distances. This is also why, it is extremely advantageous to have chiquita and BH loop with the similar structure, especially with elbow positioning.

You can see they no longer put their elbows high af for the chiquita, and the elbow is a bit higher for the BH loop. This is also why Ma Long's chiquita is not so advanced - his BH structure has a very low elbow position, and it is incompatible with the higher elbow position required for chiquita. You can see some problems in the transition from short to half long to deep long balls. You cannot always expect to read the length perfectly every time.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

This is the hard part about chiquita. I think of it as a sliding scale where I use increasingly more components the longer it is. Super short serves i pretty much focus on thumb+index finger action to supinate around the ball (anything more and my unforced errors go up like crazy). Medium short serves i add in more of the forearm action and for half long serves it becomes more like the full stroke BH loop. You can't use the same stroke for balls of all distances. This is also why, it is extremely advantageous to have chiquita and BH loop with the similar structure, especially with elbow positioning.

You can see they no longer put their elbows high af for the chiquita, and the elbow is a bit higher for the BH loop. This is also why Ma Long's chiquita is not so advanced - his BH structure has a very low elbow position, and it is incompatible with the higher elbow position required for chiquita. You can see some problems in the transition from short to half long to deep long balls. You cannot always expect to read the length perfectly every time.

yes i have problems with chiquita because i don't read the depth of the serve well. my problem is getting to the right position at the right distance of the ball in time. i think but not sure, that when the ball is short im getting too close to the ball, and i should lower my body more so that naturally i swing more forward instead of up. most of my mistakes is the ball going out, not in the net (anyway if the ball is heavy backspin i tend to change my mind and push it instead if i was going for chiquita)

 

[dingyibvs]

This is the hard part about chiquita. I think of it as a sliding scale where I use increasingly more components the longer it is. Super short serves i pretty much focus on thumb+index finger action to supinate around the ball (anything more and my unforced errors go up like crazy). Medium short serves i add in more of the forearm action and for half long serves it becomes more like the full stroke BH loop. You can't use the same stroke for balls of all distances. This is also why, it is extremely advantageous to have chiquita and BH loop with the similar structure, especially with elbow positioning.

You can see they no longer put their elbows high af for the chiquita, and the elbow is a bit higher for the BH loop. This is also why Ma Long's chiquita is not so advanced - his BH structure has a very low elbow position, and it is incompatible with the higher elbow position required for chiquita. You can see some problems in the transition from short to half long to deep long balls. You cannot always expect to read the length perfectly every time.

Thanks, that's very helpful. One thing I also found is to be a bit more upright when receiving services. I used to take a very low stance, with eyes around net height. That made it very difficult for me to judge the depth of the service. Now I'm standing a bit higher up, it's both easier to judge the depth as well as to go in for an over the table flick. I resisted doing this because it was change my receive of long services, but I've gotten more comfortable with them and doing the transition now is also surprisingly easier. I'm going to try to stand a bit closer to the table as well so I can receive short services better as well. I think I can do it now as I feel more comfortable returning fast services into the belly.

Banana flick probably is not an optimal way. I think a half backhand loop, half banana flick is better? Starting backswing a little away from the net and moving close to the coming ball?

The issue is that half-long doesn't always go long, it's hard to judge it correctly every time as @blahness pointed out. I actually bang my racket into the table sometimes as I prepare for a regular BH loop only to realize the ball is gonna be a bit short and I have to go into the table. I think for half-long services perhaps you don't really need to drop the racket below the table even if it goes long.

 

[dingyibvs]

Recently I've been playing a bit more at the Alameda club, where there's a very unstructured round robin each Wed and Sun. I still want to focus on practicing so just going to the Sunday one. I've been there 4 times now, and I feel like I've been improving a lot in actual game play.

There are a couple EJs at the club, I got to try out their rackets. Yesterday I tried a Carbonado 45 with H3/40/BS and H3/OS combo, felt very nice. It's a bit more crisp than the W968, not quite as powerful at the high end, and the H3 especially on the FH side felt super nice. I then tried someone's W968 + H3/41/BS and DNA Platinum M combo, that felt really good as well. The FH side again felt sublime, while the DNA platinum was surprisingly good as well. It's rather quick, but not very bouncy in the short game. Lastly I tried a W968 + H3/41/BS and V15 Extra combo. The V15 Extra was quite good, seemed to have a bit higher throw but a bit slower than the D09C, countering seemed a bit easier. All the H3 were boosted, some have been in use for quite a while and reboosted, which does make it feel a bit softer. They tell me that after the 2nd boost it kind of just stays pretty good forever. This is making me quite tempted to switch to the H3BS

On the practice front, I'm having weekly sessions with my practice partner. We've both been making a lot of progress. Thus far we've been focusing on the fundamentals. Basic FH/BH hits, loops, blocks, then at the end of the session a bit of BH opening loop practice. I'm finally starting to feel comfortable with my BH block, and my practice partner as well. The improvement in blocking is really turbocharging our looping practices, and our physical fitness is improving a lot as well. We've now decided to set goals for each practice, like how many loops/blocks we can make in a row, particularly when involving the BH block. I feel like our practices have been a bit limited by our inability to block, but that's quickly being taken care of.

My own BH loop drives are finally kicking into gear, starting to add a bit of body now. Now that I know exactly how it should feel, I can execute them with enough power to rival most people's FH loops, at least in practice. I think in maybe another month or so I should be able to execute it well enough for it to become a real weapon in games. I've found that this movement is also key in countering very spinny shots to the BH side, like an opening loop against backspin. It's also a great foundation for the BH opening loop itself, with the ability to transform into both a brush loop or a loop drive.

Due to our deficiencies in blocking, I think we're gonna stick to loop/block practices for now. Once our abilities to block overtake our abilities to loop in practice where we know where the loop is headed, we'll start incorporating multiball to our training. That would really elevate our offensive game and again take us a step higher in our physical conditioning.

 

[NextLevel]

Thanks, that's very helpful. One thing I also found is to be a bit more upright when receiving services. I used to take a very low stance, with eyes around net height. That made it very difficult for me to judge the depth of the service. Now I'm standing a bit higher up, it's both easier to judge the depth as well as to go in for an over the table flick. I resisted doing this because it was change my receive of long services, but I've gotten more comfortable with them and doing the transition now is also surprisingly easier. I'm going to try to stand a bit closer to the table as well so I can receive short services better as well. I think I can do it now as I feel more comfortable returning fast services into the belly.


The issue is that half-long doesn't always go long, it's hard to judge it correctly every time as @blahness pointed out. I actually bang my racket into the table sometimes as I prepare for a regular BH loop only to realize the ball is gonna be a bit short and I have to go into the table. I think for half-long services perhaps you don't really need to drop the racket below the table even if it goes long.

Yeah, prepare for the short serve and be ready to step back if it is long. This makes more sense than preparing for thr long serve then having to come over the table if it is short. Obviously the first bounce of the server determines this as well as their serve speed

 

[NextLevel]

Recently I've been playing a bit more at the Alameda club, where there's a very unstructured round robin each Wed and Sun. I still want to focus on practicing so just going to the Sunday one. I've been there 4 times now, and I feel like I've been improving a lot in actual game play.

There are a couple EJs at the club, I got to try out their rackets. Yesterday I tried a Carbonado 45 with H3/40/BS and H3/OS combo, felt very nice. It's a bit more crisp than the W968, not quite as powerful at the high end, and the H3 especially on the FH side felt super nice. I then tried someone's W968 + H3/41/BS and DNA Platinum M combo, that felt really good as well. The FH side again felt sublime, while the DNA platinum was surprisingly good as well. It's rather quick, but not very bouncy in the short game. Lastly I tried a W968 + H3/41/BS and V15 Extra combo. The V15 Extra was quite good, seemed to have a bit higher throw but a bit slower than the D09C, countering seemed a bit easier. All the H3 were boosted, some have been in use for quite a while and reboosted, which does make it feel a bit softer. They tell me that after the 2nd boost it kind of just stays pretty good forever. This is making me quite tempted to switch to the H3BS

On the practice front, I'm having weekly sessions with my practice partner. We've both been making a lot of progress. Thus far we've been focusing on the fundamentals. Basic FH/BH hits, loops, blocks, then at the end of the session a bit of BH opening loop practice. I'm finally starting to feel comfortable with my BH block, and my practice partner as well. The improvement in blocking is really turbocharging our looping practices, and our physical fitness is improving a lot as well. We've now decided to set goals for each practice, like how many loops/blocks we can make in a row, particularly when involving the BH block. I feel like our practices have been a bit limited by our inability to block, but that's quickly being taken care of.

My own BH loop drives are finally kicking into gear, starting to add a bit of body now. Now that I know exactly how it should feel, I can execute them with enough power to rival most people's FH loops, at least in practice. I think in maybe another month or so I should be able to execute it well enough for it to become a real weapon in games. I've found that this movement is also key in countering very spinny shots to the BH side, like an opening loop against backspin. It's also a great foundation for the BH opening loop itself, with the ability to transform into both a brush loop or a loop drive.

Due to our deficiencies in blocking, I think we're gonna stick to loop/block practices for now. Once our abilities to block overtake our abilities to loop in practice where we know where the loop is headed, we'll start incorporating multiball to our training. That would really elevate our offensive game and again take us a step higher in our physical conditioning.

When I broke USATT 2000, I went back to the basics for 6 months to fix my forehand. That gave me a different respect for control and fundamentals. I already had that respect, but it made it a bit harder for me to understand the attitude of people who hit balls during practice but spray the ball to so many places once they go for power and continue to do so without reigning it in. You can tell pretty quickly that the person has no respect for ultra consistency in their game.

One thing about blocking: it helps to challenge your consistency over time rather than keep a single approach. As in that always keep pushing the limits, don't focus purely on keeping the ball on the table.