German Open 2017

[WorkerBee]

I have some off-color analysis of why Timo and Dima dominated the German Open. Please tell me right away if it's permissible and if not, I'll delete it immediately. But it seems obvious to me .............DELETED DELETED......... judging by the silence I deleted my comment as too racy

 

[RidTheKid]

Well, we all noticed that FZD changed his blade, but I think if AB does not know what FZD really uses (very likely a w968), better not bring it up. And even if he knows the answer, better not bring it up as FZD is signed by Stiga but not using Stiga blade.

It was just an example. But mentioning "new equipment" doesn't put anyone in a bad spot.

Skickat från min SM-G930F via Tapatalk

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Actually English has higher information density than Mandarin (reference). Japanese has significantly lower information density than either, which is why Japanese people talk so fast.

I don't know what this information density you are talking about, but having been and still am an active (part time) English/Mandarin interpreter and also involved with hard copies translations, I can fit so much more meaning and words in a small passage in Mandarin than English.

Having seen proper English/Mandarin comparisons, I stand my ground on my claim.
Also, I can read the same Mandarin passage in less time than English (because English is 2 to 3 times the coverage in terms of words)

And Japanese people talk so fast? This to me is the total opposite. Of all the Japanese friends I have, they talk so slow.
I've learnt some Japanese and I was even instructed to speak slower, as it is more clear when slower

I'm not sure if we are on the same subject here

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I have some off-color analysis of why Timo and Dima dominated the German Open. Please tell me right away if it's permissible and if not, I'll delete it immediately. But it seems obvious to me .............DELETED DELETED......... judging by the silence I deleted my comment as too racy

Maybe you should think that majority of the forum members time zone (European) is in the midnight period and they are asleep?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I have some off-color analysis of why Timo and Dima dominated the German Open. Please tell me right away if it's permissible and if not, I'll delete it immediately. But it seems obvious to me .............DELETED DELETED......... judging by the silence I deleted my comment as too racy

Darn it. I don't get the chance to tell you you have to leave it up because I didn't get to see it.

If you are not arguing with other people, and it is not a racist theory, it probably would have been fine.

I mean, there were a few of us who used to love talking about Wang Hao and his Jedi Mind Tricks and his secret ancestry linking him all the way to Yoda back when he knocked Ma Long out of the semifinals of the WTTC in 2009, then in 2011, and again in 2013. Meanwhile, back then, in a regular World Tour event he had no chance against Ma Long.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

It was just an example. But mentioning "new equipment" doesn't put anyone in a bad spot.

I would get a kick out of hearing an announcer talking about how FZD used to use a Butterfly Viscaria with a Stiga Infinity handle to pretend he was using something from his sponsor, Stiga. And that he didn't use Stiga rubbers or a Stiga blade. That the only thing from Stiga he used was the handle of his old racket. And that, perhaps he was now using a DHS blade instead of the Butterfly blade. That would have really made the matches interesting. I bet Stiga would have loved it too.

If you know he changed his racket, you probably don't need the announcers anyway. Listen or not as you choose. But if I ever hear a basketball announcer talking about how a player changed sneakers, or a tennis announcer going on about a player changing his racket, I will probably be turning the sound off.

Come on, does the announcing really warrant our attention? Or is this just something to divert from the fact that, in two tournaments in a row where the CNT were there, no CNT member got past the semifinals?

hahahaha.

 

[NextLevel]

You are talking about practically every top player in the world.

Not true. Not all top players are trying to get better or beat the Chinese - some have just accepted their fate. Some are just trying to be the best in Europe or Japan. Dima has taken a lot of risks with his game. If you know anything about top players, it is that they are afraid to take risks with what they have because they are never sure what you are proposing will work. Some have to take major steps back to move forward and Dima could have been happy just with being the king of Europe. But he was willing to do things that made him play worse for a while as well as skip some events in order to work harder on his game. Not all top players do That, just the ones that are clearly so obsessed with getting better that they cannot accept that what they have now is okay.

Dima for example has made subtle changes to that forehand stroke that you mock. He also used to try to win the point on the first shot with his backhand. He has accepted the need to embrace the rally more in some strokes. These are things he probably did not need to beat top European players and today notwithstanding, it is still an open question whether this will work long term vs the Chinese.

 

[confiscate]

Wow did not expect Dima and Timo, who are tired from World Cup, to dominate the German Open again. Those guys are machines, especially Timo at age 36

 

[Andy44]

I don't know what this information density you are talking about, but having been and still am an active (part time) English/Mandarin interpreter and also involved with hard copies translations, I can fit so much more meaning and words in a small passage in Mandarin than English.

Having seen proper English/Mandarin comparisons, I stand my ground on my claim.
Also, I can read the same Mandarin passage in less time than English (because English is 2 to 3 times the coverage in terms of words)

And Japanese people talk so fast? This to me is the total opposite. Of all the Japanese friends I have, they talk so slow.
I've learnt some Japanese and I was even instructed to speak slower, as it is more clear when slower

I'm not sure if we are on the same subject here

Here's an article on the paper. Thought it was interesting given your comments.

 

[songdavid98]

I don't know what this information density you are talking about, but having been and still am an active (part time) English/Mandarin interpreter and also involved with hard copies translations, I can fit so much more meaning and words in a small passage in Mandarin than English.

Having seen proper English/Mandarin comparisons, I stand my ground on my claim.
Also, I can read the same Mandarin passage in less time than English (because English is 2 to 3 times the coverage in terms of words)

And Japanese people talk so fast? This to me is the total opposite. Of all the Japanese friends I have, they talk so slow.
I've learnt some Japanese and I was even instructed to speak slower, as it is more clear when slower

I'm not sure if we are on the same subject here

As somebody who speaks/reads English, Mandarin, and Japanese:

Japanese: when it comes to reading, there are lots of characters that form and structure the sentences, but they don't really give meaning. If anything, the kanji that you find in Japanese text allows people to skim through what they're reading and understand. As for speaking, the majority of the fast syllables is basically the conjugation of the verb ending or some variation of that (same goes for reading). So I can see why it can be less dense.


As for English and Chinese:

For the most part, I would say they are equally dense, except that English is more flexible and can sometimes convey the same meaning using less words (when it comes to complicated sentences)

 

[NextLevel]

Actually English has higher information density than Mandarin (reference). Japanese has significantly lower information density than either, which is why Japanese people talk so fast.

Without a stake in this discussion, a possibility while remaining agnostic to the language issue is that China has come up with a much broader vocabulary for table tennis than English speaking players have, and this vocabulary allows them to discuss certain aspects of table tennis with fewer words. I am not saying this is true, but it is plausible based on how often I hear some people make distinctions between a variety of table tennis strokes that could be described similarly in English, but are technically different in China and given different names as a result.

 

[Andy44]

Without a stake in this discussion, a possibility while remaining agnostic to the language issue is that China has come up with a much broader vocabulary for table tennis than English speaking players have, and this vocabulary allows them to discuss certain aspects of table tennis with fewer words. I am not saying this is true, but it is plausible based on how often I hear some people make distinctions between a variety of table tennis strokes that could be described similarly in English, but are technically different in China and given different names as a result.

Sounds reasonable. Also possible that the languages have similar descriptive vocabulary for table tennis, but that it's usually deployed more efficiently in Chinese because most listeners can be assumed to know more about the game.

 

[songdavid98]

Without a stake in this discussion, a possibility while remaining agnostic to the language issue is that China has come up with a much broader vocabulary for table tennis than English speaking players have, and this vocabulary allows them to discuss certain aspects of table tennis with fewer words. I am not saying this is true, but it is plausible based on how often I hear some people make distinctions between a variety of table tennis strokes that could be described similarly in English, but are technically different in China and given different names as a result.

This is completely correct.

Culture and language are very closely related things. Things that are important in a society will likely have more vocabulary words to it (like how the Eskimo-Aleut language has many ways to say 'snow').

One such thing is table tennis in China. I can confirm with you that there are many descriptive words in Chinese that describe various strokes, while there aren't really any English equivalent vocabulary words.


The information density mostly relies on vocabulary (nouns, verbs, prepositions, etc), and Chinese, being a language with a boatload of characters, has potential to be very information dense.

I guess when it comes to table tennis, Chinese is more information dense.

 

[RidTheKid]

To each his own

I would get a kick out of hearing an announcer talking about how FZD used to use a Butterfly Viscaria with a Stiga Infinity handle to pretend he was using something from his sponsor, Stiga. And that he didn't use Stiga rubbers or a Stiga blade. That the only thing from Stiga he used was the handle of his old racket. And that, perhaps he was now using a DHS blade instead of the Butterfly blade. That would have really made the matches interesting. I bet Stiga would have loved it too.

If you know he changed his racket, you probably don't need the announcers anyway. Listen or not as you choose. But if I ever hear a basketball announcer talking about how a player changed sneakers, or a tennis announcer going on about a player changing his racket, I will probably be turning the sound off.

Come on, does the announcing really warrant our attention? Or is this just something to divert from the fact that, in two tournaments in a row where the CNT were there, no CNT member got past the semifinals?

hahahaha.

 

[RidTheKid]

How do you know this? Have you spoken to every top player? Fact is every top player have changed some part of his/her equipment or made subtle changes in their playstyle lets say in the past 5 years. Name one who hasn't.

Not true. Not all top players are trying to get better or beat the Chinese - some have just accepted their fate. Some are just trying to be the best in Europe or Japan. Dima has taken a lot of risks with his game. If you know anything about top players, it is that they are afraid to take risks with what they have because they are never sure what you are proposing will work. Some have to take major steps back to move forward and Dima could have been happy just with being the king of Europe. But he was willing to do things that made him play worse for a while as well as skip some events in order to work harder on his game. Not all top players do That, just the ones that are clearly so obsessed with getting better that they cannot accept that what they have now is okay.

Dima for example has made subtle changes to that forehand stroke that you mock. He also used to try to win the point on the first shot with his backhand. He has accepted the need to embrace the rally more in some strokes. These are things he probably did not need to beat top European players and today notwithstanding, it is still an open question whether this will work long term vs the Chinese.

 

[Astorix]

How do you know this? Have you spoken to every top player? Fact is every top player have changed some part of his/her equipment or made subtle changes in their playstyle lets say in the past 5 years. Name one who hasn't.

This discussion plus the one about the commentator is turning into one not about the subject itself but about something only relevant about who is right and who is wrong.
just accept people are different and cut it off right here. No offense.

 

[Der_Echte]

Irrelevant how things were 5-6 years ago when AB is still a commentator for the broad masses more than those who are really passionate about the sport.

And I actually did join a contest here in Sweden for commentary of the FIFA World Cup 2006. I didn't win that time but I put the money where my mouth is, everytime.

Well in that case, you did better than me.

 

[RidTheKid]

No, it's a discussion about opinions and taste, that's what a healthy discussion is. Did you see any personal attacks by any chance? If so, report it.

This discussion plus the one about the commentator is turning into one not about the subject itself but about something only relevant about who is right and who is wrong.
just accept people are different and cut it off right here. No offense.

 

[RidTheKid]

You still have time to better me for sure.

Well in that case, you did better than me.

 

[Atas Newton]

No, it's a discussion about opinions and taste, that's what a healthy discussion is. Did you see any personal attacks by any chance? If so, report it.

what he means, I think, is that this type is discussion is known to be fruitless, since no one ever changes their tastes after a discussion.