German Open 2017

Who do you think will win the German Open 2017

  • Fan Zhendong

    Votes: 26 48.1%
  • Xu Xin

    Votes: 6 11.1%
  • Dimitrij Ovtcharov

    Votes: 5 9.3%
  • Timo Boll

    Votes: 8 14.8%
  • Zhang Jike

    Votes: 3 5.6%
  • Jun Mizutani

    Votes: 1 1.9%
  • Koki Niwa

    Votes: 2 3.7%
  • Lin Gaoyuan

    Votes: 2 3.7%
  • Wong ChunTing

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kenta Matsudaira

    Votes: 1 1.9%

  • Total voters
    54
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Adams commentary is/was seriously irritating and biased. He kept talking about nonsense things like the mascot in the stands instead of dissecting the game thoroughly, which IS his job. He's this "surfer type dude" who always tries to be a funny person instead of actually providing much depth, only giving shallow observations that anyone can see.
RTK, If you saw what commentary ITTF had 5-6 years ago before they got AB to announce full time, you would have really known what lack of insight and all the other negative things you mentioned truly were for ITTF announcing. AB runs circles around the ones before him, yes, he shifts the balance of insight to entertainment more towards entertainment. TT is an entertainment business, not a research library with unattractive prim librarians.

ITTF ran a competition to find and hire their "new" announcer. Provide us some live commentary you make on a live match next time. You don't have a whole lot of time to provide long insight, usually under 10 seconds. Usually just 2-3 sentences if that.
 
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Dima plays like a real #1 contender. 2018 can be his year. I don't know for sure why Timo kept the backhand serve in the last set. There was a point in game 5 I think where it looked like he had some difficulties but that is just speculation.

I called out Ovtcharov for having to deliver at german open to justify the #3 and he did it. WELL DONE!
 
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Great match. Fabulous tactic by Timo..when Dima is in this mood, i don't know what else can be thrown at him, his backhand off the bounce is nuts.

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About week ago mizutani defeated quite easy dima, so sometimes good strategy is important although this tournament dima plays exceptionally well
 
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I agree with Der_Echte ... this is a completely unfair comment on Adam .... I have been listening to him for the most part, I agree he has had phases where he was a little low on energy etc. but everybody has that ... currently he is probably as good as he has ever been...

you really need to listent to hours of Ian Marshall to know what bad commentary is ( I think I heard him in the last couple of matches in T2 APAC ) ....

also, I completely don't agree with your assertion that Adam is not Technical ... he is technical and humorous and tries to keep it mixed up so that everybody enjoys the game ...... keep in mind its not just us Table tennis nerds who listen to the game ...


Also , I agree Richard Prause is a very good commentator and Adam has been very good in making sure he is the best co commentator whenever Richard decides to participates ...



RTK. Drink a long cup of STFU and chill out. If you saw what commentary ITTF had 5-6 years ago before they got AB to announce full time, you would have really known what lack of insight and all the other negative things you mentioned truly were for ITTF announcing.

ITTF ran a competition to find and hire their "new" announcer. Provide us some live commentary you make on a live match next time. You don't have a whole lot of time to provide long insight, usually under 10 seconds. Usually just 2-3 sentences if that.
 
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There seems a CNT crisis recently when a lot of CNT players including the most formidable ones ML, FZD, XX, namely WR #1, 2, 3, lost to non-CNT players more than once. And two questions are heavily discussed, first, is this a sign of the decline of CNT dominance and can non-CNT players keep beating CNT players? Second, what are the reasons for their losses, a bad day, dismiss of LGL and change in the management structure, change of ball/racket, etc.?
Here are my two cents.
(1) What is CNT dominance? Unbeatable by non-CNT players? NO, NO, NO. ML was unbeatable by non-CNT players in 2013(35 matches) /2014(28)/2015(22)/2016(40), FZD unbeatable in 2015(44 matches)/2016(26), XX unbeatable in 2013(50 matches)/2014(35); in earlier or later years, they DID lost to non-CNT players. ZJK was NEVER unbeatable by non-CNT players in any given year, even at his prime; but that's not unusual, Wang Liqin, Ma Lin and Wang Hao were NEVER unbeatable by non-CNT players too at their prime, though the non-CNT rivals back then may be tougher if you argue. Therefore, the unbeatable ML, FZD, XX in certain years are only outliers.
IMO, CNT dominance means winning champions in singles and team events in Olympic Games, WTTC, World Cup, ITTF platinum tours and Grand Finals, and major continental tournaments, when TOP CNT players attend. There is no guarantee when other Team A or B players were sent out for ITTF Tours. This year, CNT lost the titles of Asian Championships women's singles, men's World Cup and German Open men's singles. That means CNT dominance is really getting challenged. However, the threat from Miu Hirano seems gone now. And Timo Boll and Dimitrij Ovtcharov are always top-tier rivals of CNT. Lee Sangsu, Koki Niwa, Chen Chien-An, Tiago Apolonia, etc are second-tier rivals. Really no new face to add to the blacklist.
(2) What are the reasons for the recent losses of CNT players especially top guns? Of course we can say there are many factors, bad form/injuries/coach change/equipment change which all add up. I do not think dismiss of LGL as head coach is the key factor. In Asian Championships this April, Miu Hirano beat DN, ZYL and CM in a row; ML lost to Jeong Sangeun and XX lost to Koki Niwa. LGL was still head coach by then and he coached the match of ML vs Jeong Sangeun without his magic working. CNT attributed the losses of both men's and women's team to the underestimated ball change to Nittaku ABS (they used different ABS balls in training). And in closing training for WTTC, they worked on the issues accordingly and got satisfactory results in 2017 WTTC in late May. After the dismiss of LGL and boycott in China Open in late June, CNT men's team canceled Austrian Open. Thus no more DHS 40+ in training as the players went back to their provincial teams to prepare for the National Games with 729 seamless ball. I don't know if CTTA or CNT or the organizers of National Games are to blame; but it is NOT the players' fault. They have to play and fight hard at National Games for their provincial teams and they have to practice with seamless balls which are totally different from DHS 40+ used in international tournament. Some people argue that in a match both players play the same ball; the change of ball should affect them equally. But as a matter of fact, the ball change, to be specific, reduced spin and faster speed, affects players of different style differently. What CNT players and coaches have complained recently is that the ball has negative effects on CNT players at the moment and positive effects on certain non-CNT players who excel in power or speed. CNT players will adapt to the new ball sooner or later, with the cost of more body-building, or more injuries, or change of blades. Of course, each player may have his/her own issues like injuries or adaptation to new coach. But since many CNT players, of different play styles and strengths, senior or young, with the same coach or new coach, complained about the reduced spin of DHS 40+ as well 729 seamless and DHS double-colored ball used in CTTSL, there are really problems of ball change - while there are always solutions.

Always support your credible facts and reasoning. But I cant understand why the Women's team had no such problems with the ball !!
 
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RTK. Drink a long cup of STFU and chill out. If you saw what commentary ITTF had 5-6 years ago before they got AB to announce full time, you would have really known what lack of insight and all the other negative things you mentioned truly were for ITTF announcing.

ITTF ran a competition to find and hire their "new" announcer. Provide us some live commentary you make on a live match next time. You don't have a whole lot of time to provide long insight, usually under 10 seconds. Usually just 2-3 sentences if that.
Soon we will have AB haters, just compare Adam to the champions league comentator he Has hot 3 sentences for everything:
1. Ok
2. Yes we love IT
3. That is great
 
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One other factor to consider in the movement in the Table Tennis world, the movement whereby the European players, and everyone else, have raised their game to quicker attacks vs the standards set by the top Chinese and European players to take the time to plant their feet with their amazing footwork and use all their power in their loop attacks, which has cemented their dominance for years, is that along comes a little 13 year-old kid who starts whipping their butts with rocket half-volley attacks which hit the table before the monsters have had time to plant their feet. I think Tomo shocked all the top players who have since adjusted their tactics to the faster tactics and this has raised the game in general. They have all adjusted to and learned from Tomo. This is only one factor that has changed the game, but it is a factor. Of course Tomo needs to learn all the other methods of the established players before he turns 16 so he can join the ranks of the monsters, but he seems to be doing it millimeter by millimeter.
 
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Soon we will have AB haters, just compare Adam to the champions league comentator he Has hot 3 sentences for everything:
1. Ok
2. Yes we love IT
3. That is great

I think AB is great. But like many other sports there should be atleast two commemtators. There should be healthy exchange of views and sometimes clash of opinions in commentary which make it much more exciting.
 
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Always support your credible facts and reasoning. But I cant understand why the Women's team had no such problems with the ball !!
there actually were some extremely fishy bounces in the women's tournament, notably in the game between Zhu Yuling and Kasumi Ishikawa and in the final. E.g., what on earth happened here at 18:54?

I'd guess women's game would be less affected by the ball change since it's far more drive and pace oriented than men's game.
 
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What are you referring to now? I mentioned composure and you talk rubbers?

Dima was so willing to improve that he changed his forehand rubber for a while, realized it wasn't the way to go and changed back. For someone who is willing to try anything to get better, it shows determination. You are just focusing on things that don't get to the heart of the work someone is putting into their game. Everyone has better composure when they win more.
 
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Dima and Timo played great, no question about it. I do not believe it was the ball/equipment to cause the CNT players loose to them.

I think it is all about psychological impact after LGL got fired. The German with home advantage was also another factor. Some heads are going to fall in the CNT leadership. Well, the CNT players will come back once they believe in each other and their management.
 
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Tomo is awesome, but he's hardly an innovator. His style is basically Timo Boll on steroids.
I did not say he was an innovator. He simply brought his own style, which I am more than happy to desciribe as Timo on Steroids, into the mix and had an effect. I originally thought his playing in T2 was simply him learning from the great players, but now I see it also went the other way.
 
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Always support your credible facts and reasoning. But I cant understand why the Women's team had no such problems with the ball !!
I think it is hard to compare CNT women's and men's team directly. First of all, CNT women's team is more dominant than men's team. Only JNT gives CNT some threats, and not to top players except Miu Hirano during Asian Championships. If I remember correctly, DN was complaining loudly in live streaming during timeout that the Nittaku ABS ball did not spin. Wu Yang complained about DHS 40+ too. From the complaints of male players, the effects on reduced spin can be compensated with more power or faster speed. Many female players are lightning fast and the new ball is not "against" them. For male players, Tomo and LGY are good examples. LGY performs way much better this year than before, he beat ML, XX, FZD in trials or China National Games, and beat some great non-CNT players internationally (he did beat Timo Boll once in Japan Open). He is not a top CNT player with relatively poor FH topspin; but the new ball is not "against" his game.
 
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I did not say he was an innovator. He simply brought his own style, which I am more than happy to desciribe as Timo on Steroids, into the mix and had an effect. I originally thought his playing in T2 was simply him learning from the great players, but now I see it also went the other way.
what I meant is that his appearance ultimately brought nothing new because Timo had already been an example for quite some time. Chinese love powerful loop exchanges so if you want to beat them - better play like Timo, deny them their game. Problem was always lying in how hard it is to take the ball early off a quality shot. In regular tennis Federer is a good example of how early timing can give you massive advantage but almost no one has the technical ability to abuse that tactic.
 
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As for the results of this event, I think Dima himself who has worked with many coaches said that he has tried to reduce the power in his style and go for more spin and consistency - of course, such things are relative. You can see that while he still tries to kill the ball, he has improved his ability to play multiple shots.

The T2APAC definitely sharpened these guys and I suspect the impact was greater on Boll since he trains relatively less than everyone. Playing so much with relatively little impact on his career status allowed him to try new things while playing. I am happy and hope things like T2APAC will continue.

The only reason why I think that the coaching change had an impact for this tournament is that I am not so sure that the most resources are being invested in the top players anymore. The pyramid structure of CNT was obvious in the LGL era. It isn't as obvious now as we don't see or hear about the lower players prepping the top players as much - it might still be happening, but it seems that the CNT is more like a democracy.

Deuce in the 7th is a lottery. I am happy Dima won it, but with crowd support, home cooking etc., I think he had everything going in his direction. I think FZD and Ma Long have both shown that they are still ahead of everyone else and they need almost everything not to go their way for them to lose. XX is still finding his way so I am not concerned - everyone who wants to improve goes through periods where they take risks with their game to see whether they can find higher ground to settle on.

The WTTTC is in a couple of months - it is going to be more interesting now. We legitimately have China, Germany, Japan and South Korea being able to get lucky.

Anyone comparing the women's table tennis to the men's is not serious. China is too far ahead in women's table tennis for randomness to affect anything. I mean, the best women players in Europe are Chinese. That's not true for men.
 
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