High throw vs low throw rubber (high / low arc) thoughts

[Hamasaki_Fanz]

And here we have it. A total loser, with asperger's ranting, calling people stupid, claiming he is looping on a video that clearly shows what anyone who knows how to loop can tell is NOT A LOOP.

See you can call all the names you want. But here, I will show you something. I am not going to call you narcissistic, fat, out of shape, or a loser who can't loop. I don't need to. Your videos make the point well enough.

In the one NextLevel posted, you make sure you can't see any part of the PNut but the racket after contact. Some part of you must know that the rest of you including the stroke needs to be hidden.

Anyone who knows how to loop can see that those shots have NO ARC and VERY LITTLE SPIN. You can also hear from the contact that it is not a loop.

But here, why not show one where it is obvious that you get out of breath by trying to smack a ball that is high, has no spin and is right to you; a video that shows how you are clumsy and unable to move:

See if this video was posted by someone who was saying, what do I need to do to get better, it would be totally different than the fact that it has been posted by a fool who is saying: "look how well I loop with Tenergy 25! I am better than NextLevel who says he can't loop with T25!"

Too bad you like to insult other people so much. But it is obvious that it is because you feel like crap about the fact that you obviously just suck.

As I said, vvk1 had more right than you realized.

All you need to do is change your attitude and you could have plenty to add to the discussion. But when someone really doesn't know how to loop and they are saying that they do and insulting others for being stupid at the same time, who is going to listen to a jackass like that.


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is that PNuts in black?

I'm actually surprised by the amount of people in table tennis forum who seem to have good knowledge of table tennis but when I see video of one playing, he's total crap lol (I DIDNT SAY PNUT PLAYS LIKE CRAP, I DIDN'T MAKE A SINGLE COMMENT ABOUT YOUR SKILL/VIDEO AT ALL)

Der_Echte is one that I admit is a good player although if he lowers his body more and strike the ball more wholeheartedly he can better

 

[NextLevel]

Just to add to the conversation as original thread starter. I am now using low throw and medium throw rubber and I'm enjoying the experience far more as it did indeed fix some of the high arc issues I was having. Nice deadly low balls for my opponent

As you get better, you will find that you can create a similar trajectory with any rubber - as loops become more advanced, they tend to have more sidespin or corkscrew spin anyway and this keeps the loop at relatively the same height. Also loop drives tend to have different arcs, but there is mostly speed so the arc is more spin driven. This is my opinion anyway.

 

[NextLevel]

is that PNuts in black?

I'm actually surprised by the amount of people in table tennis forum who seem to have good knowledge of table tennis but when I see video of one playing, he's total crap lol (I DIDNT SAY PNUT PLAYS LIKE CRAP, I DIDN'T MAKE A SINGLE COMMENT ABOUT YOUR SKILL/VIDEO AT ALL)

Der_Echte is one that I admit is a good player although if he lowers his body more and strike the ball more wholeheartedly he can better

When you learn as an adult as after playing basement for years as a kid, your game has to be crap in one way or another - just saying.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

is that PNuts in black?

Got it in one. That graceful devil in the black attire who looks like he could be a ballerina if he wanted, is the one who is talking all that smack about his skills as a third ball looper!

Note the parts of the video where he puts both hands on the table and huffs and puffs (completely out of breath) because of all that footwork he has to do since the ball is pushed high and right to him with no spin every time.


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[UpSideDownCarl]

Now since we are on the subject of slapping the ball, we might as well have a look at someone who knows how to do it with some skill.

Here--as posted in the other high throw thread--is The Slap Diary, by TableTennisDaily's own Matt Heatherington:

So there is an art to slapping well and Matt shows that he can use that technique to his advantage here.

I must confess, I love this video.


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[Hamasaki_Fanz]

There's an old lady (probably around 60) in one table tennis tournament I attended. She uses short pips on both side, and hell, she slaps damn good !!! I think she's maybe div 3or4 players (usually in my country tournament is divided into 7 divisions: 1(those who fail to join national team) - 7 (total newb)

EDIT: I wonder what blade+rubber did he use in that video? So far there're 2 combinations that I've tried and really good at slapping (really, just slap the ball and it goes in): Primorac + Yasaka raksa7 soft and Gergely + Calibra LT sound

 

[NextLevel]

I used to be a ball slapper - in fact, the juniors I play against used to make fun of my forehand. They had all these spinny loops and I would slap the ball with my blocks.

Then the time came when it was too hard to slap spinny loops. It's been hard trying to learn to counterloop with crappy knees but I get closer every day.

But even when I slap the ball today, I am a 2000 level ball slapper. And I don't go around telling 2200 loopers how to loop the ball. Like 7Up, the difference is clear.

 

[Suga D]

To be fair, many of those players developed their instincts and strokes back in the Waldner/Appelgren/Kong/Gatien etc. days so things like over the table backhands or some modern serves may have passed them by. In fact, there is nothing I enjoy more than playing some of those players because they push almost every serve which feeds my third ball game. They keep thinking that short over the table balls are safe until they see repeated chiquitas bending it like Beckham.

Nailed it on point!
That was one of the first things i had to learn, when i re-started....
But sometimes even an old dog (like me) learns new 'tricks' ;-)

 

[Der_Echte]

The one dude who was a 2000+ level player and likely 100 points level better than me asked for help in a couple ares. I helped him anyway even if there really isnt anyyhing i could tell a player who has played the sport at a 2000+ level for 40+ yrs... all i could really show him is how WILLIAM makes his bh and how to efficiently transfer power with zero backswing.


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[Der_Echte]

I am not quite as bas as NL in joint pain... but 30 yrs of military put a small hurt on my body... speaking of body... it resembles more like a semi fat 5'8" bear. Sure, bears can move deceptive fast and quick, but me carrying around weight of bear isnt easy on the joints.

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[Liten]

Like 7Up, the difference is clear.

Best comercial ever!
Some dude goes: I just invented 7Up's new slogan, its really catching on! See for your self!

Then he goes round town shouting "7Up yours!" to every and all.. Load of "yeah f*ck you too buddy" and this guy just goes: see what I meen??

I love that one...

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

The one dude who was a 2000+ level player and likely 100 points level better than me asked for help in a couple ares. I helped him anyway even if there really isnt anyyhing i could tell a player who has played the sport at a 2000+ level for 40+ yrs... all i could really show him is how WILLIAM makes his bh and how to efficiently transfer power with zero backswing.

The one thing I would say here: there is a difference between someone seeing you do something you do well and asking you to help them with that. Regardless of your level and that persons level, if you do something better than someone else, you can help them.

But PNut is a good 500-600, maybe even 700-800 points lower than NextLevel and PNut isn't trying to help NextLevel: PNut is insulting people and calling them idiots, fools etc. when it is obvious the guy is too clumsy to move into position and doesn't know what a loop actually is.



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[NextLevel]

The one thing I would say here: there is a difference between someone seeing you do something you do well and asking you to help them with that. Regardless of your level and that persons level, if you do something better than someone else, you can help them.

But PNut is a good 500-600, maybe even 700-800 points lower than NextLevel and PNut isn't trying to help NextLevel: PNut is insulting people and calling them idiots, fools etc. when it is obvious the guy is too clumsy to move into position and doesn't know what a loop actually is.



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I fully agree. In fact, I like to say that if you don't have a good stroke, don't teach it. I have seen 2400 players get help on a specific stroke from a 1500 player because that 1500 player had excellent technique that was taught to them by a 2700 player (second or third hand but you get the idea). Technique shines through rating obscurantism. One way you can tell that someone has good technique is when you ask people to guess their rating from strokes in practice/warmup and you come up 200 pts too high. Shows you their footwork or mental game is relatively bad.

In my club, we have some of those old school players as well. At their peak, they were better than I am now. But the thing is that even though some of their strokes are still technically as sound or better, their instincts are all off.

There's a guy who coaches at a club about an hour away from me that has beaten players who I have not even come close to beating. His USATT is far lower than it should be. He can move pretty well for his age. But when he plays me, he pushes short or half long to my backhand almost no matter what I serve him. That's a recipe for disaster. And sometimes, when I push, he pushes back, and against me, that's a suicide pill.

I cannot pretend I am on his level on the whole - after all, he trained as a junior and I have only trained TT for 4 years (was a good pretty basement player as a junior though). But I do when I play him because of the matchup. The old timers learn pretty quickly that the first four shots of the point are more critical today than they were in their time, especially since they can't hide serves or short toss the ball with their old serving techniques which hid the ball too blatantly for today's regime.

Hmmm - maybe I should post my serve and thirdball practice video here so people can compare and contrast with PNut. But in the bigger scheme of things, we both suck.

OK, having said that we both suck, he sucks way more than I do. Here is the video:

For all practical purposes, the intensity level of my practice and pnatchwey's practice is the same so it comes down to the quality of the players. I am just getting a feel for new equipment and not really overly practicing anything.

 

[Suga D]

I'm actually surprised by the amount of people in table tennis forum who seem to have good knowledge of table tennis but when I see video of one playing, he's total crap lol

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." --
or
"Reality is the murder of a beautiful theory by a gang of ugly facts."

 

[Suga D]

OK, idiots. If I just slapped the ball why doesn't it go into the net? If I really stopped the spin of the ball as stupid carl suggested on the other thread I would need to apply a downward force on the ball to stop the spin. If I match the spin of the ball with the tangential speed of the paddle I don't stop or change the spin of the ball. No downward or upward force is applied to the ball. If I hit the ball flat while moving the paddle up to match the spin of the ball it goes back as shown in the video. Now what part don't you idiots understand? There is too much back spin on the ball to close the paddle much if at all. So yes, it may look like a slap but the ball is going back with all the extreme spin hit had before I hit it. I was trying not to add or subtract too much spin from the ball because then I would be applying a vertical force that would cause the ball to go down into the net or long.

Now stupid carl should explain how the spin of the ball stops when lifting chopped balls. I am waiting. If the rest of you aren't waiting then you are as stupid as carl.

Hahaha, are you really serious???
This is just too much. It sounds like a sorry excuse of someone that just doesn't know how to loop.
Man, i'd really like to feed you low bouncin' underspin multiballs. If you are able to slap more than 3 out of 10 of them and get them over the net and land on my side of the table, i would make a huge poster of you, namin' it:
The inventor of the new loop
and hang it up the wall of the club i play for.
But if you get less than three over the net, you would have to apologise PERSONALLY to each and every one you've tried to insult...

How does that sound?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Hahaha, are you really serious???
This is just too much. It sounds like a sorry excuse of someone that just doesn't know how to loop.
Man, i'd really like to feed you low bouncin' underspin multiballs. If you are able to slap more than 3 out of 10 of them and get them over the net and land on my side of the table, i would make a huge poster of you, namin' it:
The inventor of the new loop
and hang it up the wall of the club i play for.
But if you get less than three over the net, you would have to apologise PERSONALLY to each and every one you've tried to insult...

How does that sound?

You got it. Hahaha.

The man is delusional. And he is probably so often in a position of being an expert that he doesn't really understand when he is clueless, when he doesn't actually understand something, and when everyone around him doesn't just say, "yes, sir" to whatever he says.

And he doesn't actually get why we all can see that he can't loop.

When, or really, if he does learn to loop, he will start understanding that what he is doing doesn't actually match his theory and the formula he has expounded for how to loop underspin.


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[Der_Echte]

Now I gotta go find some WWF popcorn... be back.

 

[Baal]

Now since we are on the subject of slapping the ball, we might as well have a look at someone who knows how to do it with some skill.

Here--as posted in the other high throw thread--is The Slap Diary, by TableTennisDaily's own Matt Heatherington:

So there is an art to slapping well and Matt shows that he can use that technique to his advantage here.

I must confess, I love this video.

There was an Iranian guy who used to live in Houston (I think he is LA now) who plays exactly that way, hallucinatingly similar. Even has the same body shape. Also left handed. He slapped the ball with the same stroke, and like this NZ guy, with so much power it pretty much ended the point when he managed to unload one. He was about 2300-ish. The 2500+ guys simply wouldn't allow him to do it, and the guy has not much backhand to speak of.

 

[Baal]

One thing about rubbers (moving the thread away from world-infamous TT posters): if you use a high-throw rubber you get pretty used to it after awhile and tend to instinctively use a more closed racket angle. At that point low-throw rubbers feel really strange. But switch to a low throws and in the fullness of time you will instinctively open up your racket angle. So my sense is that it almost doesn't matter as long as you stick with something and don't constantly switch between rubbers. If you switch all the time, it is hard to get real comfortable with anything. That said, my favorite rubber ever is Tenergy 05, which clearly is on the extreme end of throw. But I remember the first time I ever used it, about a month after you could buy it in the US in 2008. I hated it. I had been using stuff like F1 Desto and JO Platinum, early generation ESN Tensors which are really low-throw rubbers with a "plastic" feel. It seemed like Tenergy 05 just hit moonballs coming from those early generation ESN rubbers. I didn't stick with it. Then I tried T64 which was much more easy to get used to. I used that for probably three months. Then the next time I tried T05 it felt incredibly good. It was like I sort of had to transition into it, through an intermediate step. Since then I have used T05 except at a point when it went beyond $80. Then I used MX-P for about a month. It was and is ok. But now that Tenergy is $67, I will use it. Actually, I probably won't care about the cost.

I think it is good to find something that is more or less what you like and just stick with it for quite a long time. Then you instinctively know how to play with it. (And Zen says you have to play instinctively, if you are having to put your mind in one particular place you will not play well). Maybe even if it isn't exactly what you like at the beginning, if you stick with it, it will become what you like. If I had stayed with MX-P it would have become my favorite, eventually. (OK, so why did I switch back to Tenergy? Because it really is amazing rubber, I suppose).

I had the same experience with Viscaria handles. I used to think they were too small, but I liked everything else about the blade. Now, after close to 10 years with that blade, it feels perfect.

 

[Killerspintt]

OK, idiots. If I just slapped the ball why doesn't it go into the net?

The answer has already been given to you : because the incomming ball is ultra high, far far over the net. I wonder how a great ingenieur like you could not figure this out, I mean.........it's pretty obvious. Now just open your eyes, see the spin of your balls (once thet hit the net or once they hit the wall behind) : there is NO SPIN. I wonder if in your life you have ever seen what a heavy topspin is doing if it is stopped by the net or a wall, I bet you have never seen it : the ball keeps spinning ALOT (far far far far more than your balls which really are close to no spin at all).

Same spin from the robot and a contact point under the net : here is the real test for your FH "topspin" (I shouldn't call it topspin). And you will figure it out : you are not doing what you think you are doing.