How Did I Win or Lose a Match?

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For me, the most important strategy when playing a backhand pimples player is to force him to use the backhand on the forehand side. usually this is done with a serve into the forehand. You have to find the right depth and be able to move to attack the next ball or float/push it back into the backhand corner. But you can't serve the ball to them all the time, you need to get them out of the backhand corner and make them demonstrate some footwork and see what weapons they have built up to defend points when they don't receive serve with the pimples..

It is best to use largely the same serve during the match, mostly backspin and no spin combinations. That said, rotate through *all* your serves in game 1. Use game 1 to learn about the material and the player, do not care about winning game 1 as you need to give yourself freedom to read and attack the ball and adjust to the pace. Game one is usually good when you close strong, even if you go down badly early, and sometimes you may close strong enough to win.

After game 1, usually, most of the rest of the game will be backspin/no spin combinations unless the opponent has show extreme weakness against a serve that you can toss in every once in a while. Again, the serves ideally should force the pips player out of the backhand corner and give you a chance to demonstrate your ability to topspin the nospin ball or to loop backspin.

Learning to serve extremely heavy backspin and no spin combinations with similar motions can be a game changer vs pips players, they rely very often on the fact that most players serves can be easily returned with a chop block or pips push. Making the backspin spin heavy creates a wider degree of variation that means they can't return the ball mindlessly anymore because when the ball goes into the net, they actually have to be active, and being too active against no-spin balls will put the ball off the table.
Interesting - I would say 60% of the time I served back or no spin to BH and short topspin to FH. The rest were topspin into BH which caused both some problems if following backspin or no spin.

One of the players very much likes to move across to the FH side using his BH pips - his most effective short is a very direct punch/push deep into my BH and I am not often far enough back to roll over this ball and therefore make many mistakes on snatching at it.
 
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Ok, the first rule is to stick with whatever you are using for as long as you can. So if you are used to T05, there is no great reason to change it. It is best to change only one thing at a time. For you, I would keep the innerforce ZLC blade, but I would switch the rubber on both sides to something like Rozena or Fastarc C1 or even T80 FX on both sides. In my coaching philosophy, for an adult learner, using the same rubber on both sides is important to understand what your strokes are about. You can change much later when your technique is stable and you know exactly what each side does best. I for one, once had a much better backhand than forehand, and it was interesting that I could use faster equipment on the backhand but my forehand always suffered for it. Balance for me came much later.

The rubbers you are using are likely too hard on the forehand unless you loop drive consistently. And since you are learning to loop consistently, you need something that rewards you for looping and topspinning (and not driving/smashing/quick blocking) consistently. T05 would be okay, but for me it has sideeffects because the spin sometimes comes too easily. Which is okay at a certain point, but not quite good when you are developing your game.

Secondly, the main reason to go to a 5 ply blade is to be able to use the vibrations to get a better feel for whether you are playing the strokes correctly or not and to reduce the thrill you get from smacking the ball. Because 5 ply blades usually don't get good speed on flat hits and blocks, and they tend to reward looping in the sweet spot ( upper third of the blade or so). You can loop with thicker contact, but that isn't the main point, the main point is just to play topspins or use the right technique whenever you hit the ball and not rely on the equipment for quality. Over time, you learn to place the ball better.

You won't hit the low ball past many people and this can cause injuries for people who don't get used to this and just accept that the goal is to play more shots and get the stroke right. But the limit on spin generation can force you to play under control on most balls.

You can get a lot of the same effect by sticking a tacky rubber on the forehand. They don't reward flat hits, they reward spin strokes. But if you have a speed addiction without using the legs/core to generate, it can be painful, though there are probably tacky rubbers that make the curve less daunting. And if you overuse the upper arm, it can cause injury too. And tacky rubber does encourage a bit thicker contact (though it has some ability to make the ball skid on thin brushes) but you will be forced to spin because they definitely do not reward flat hitting without the precise technique.

So long story short, get something softer (or tackier) on both sides that will encourage you to spin without too much effort - tackier is effort so I recommend softer, but the choice is up to you. You aren't playing at a level yet when you need to loop drive everything (if such a level exists), so get your forehand to learn to spin a bit more and use the slower equipment to work on placement. Use the same rubber on both sides for a while so you can truly get to understand the differences in both strokes. Then if your forehand clearly requires more power and you can loop consistently with slower equipment but seem to be maxing out the spin when you loop harder, you can revisit and change then. But right now, make your life easier with softer rubber. All the stuff you are listing (K3, Dignics 09c, Dragon/DNA) is all stuff that people who topspin physically hard almost every time play with. That is not you at the moment.

Softer means there will be a speed limit placed on your strokes as contact that is too thick will not spin the ball. But the speed limit should be fairly comfortable and you can do a lot within it. And when you get used to being rewarded by spin, you can upgrade. But the goal is get you to feel rewarded by topspinning and then go from there.
 
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Interesting - I would say 60% of the time I served back or no spin to BH and short topspin to FH. The rest were topspin into BH which caused both some problems if following backspin or no spin.

One of the players very much likes to move across to the FH side using his BH pips - his most effective short is a very direct punch/push deep into my BH and I am not often far enough back to roll over this ball and therefore make many mistakes on snatching at it.

Serving short topspin to a pips player is asking for backspin hit. How often do you attack a backspin or no-spin hit?

It will be interesting to see the match footage. The most important thing is to get returns you can read or attack. And to learn to alternate push and spin. But I think you might be slow to prepare your attacks if stuff is jamming you. You have decent serves and you really have good backhand technique, so the real problem is likely that you keep waiting to prepare the stroke late, when given that your serves have put the opponent in a box, you need to commit to the attack early. It takes training to be fair, but half the time, other than short balls over the table, I already know what I am going to do once the ball comes long based on my serve, and I just do it and see what happens and then note the results for future similar point patterns.
 
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Ok, the first rule is to stick with whatever you are using for as long as you can. So if you are used to T05, there is no great reason to change it. It is best to change only one thing at a time. For you, I would keep the innerforce ZLC blade, but I would switch the rubber on both sides to something like Rozena or Fastarc C1 or even T80 FX on both sides. In my coaching philosophy, for an adult learner, using the same rubber on both sides is important to understand what your strokes are about. You can change much later when your technique is stable and you know exactly what each side does best. I for one, once had a much better backhand than forehand, and it was interesting that I could use faster equipment on the backhand but my forehand always suffered for it. Balance for me came much later.

The rubbers you are using are likely too hard on the forehand unless you loop drive consistently. And since you are learning to loop consistently, you need something that rewards you for looping and topspinning (and not driving/smashing/quick blocking) consistently. T05 would be okay, but for me it has sideeffects because the spin sometimes comes too easily. Which is okay at a certain point, but not quite good when you are developing your game.

Secondly, the main reason to go to a 5 ply blade is to be able to use the vibrations to get a better feel for whether you are playing the strokes correctly or not and to reduce the thrill you get from smacking the ball. Because 5 ply blades usually don't get good speed on flat hits and blocks, and they tend to reward looping in the sweet spot ( upper third of the blade or so). You can loop with thicker contact, but that isn't the main point, the main point is just to play topspins or use the right technique whenever you hit the ball and not rely on the equipment for quality. Over time, you learn to place the ball better.

You won't hit the low ball past many people and this can cause injuries for people who don't get used to this and just accept that the goal is to play more shots and get the stroke right. But the limit on spin generation can force you to play under control on most balls.

You can get a lot of the same effect by sticking a tacky rubber on the forehand. They don't reward flat hits, they reward spin strokes. But if you have a speed addiction without using the legs/core to generate, it can be painful, though there are probably tacky rubbers that make the curve less daunting. And if you overuse the upper arm, it can cause injury too. And tacky rubber does encourage a bit thicker contact (though it has some ability to make the ball skid on thin brushes) but you will be forced to spin because they definitely do not reward flat hitting without the precise technique.

So long story short, get something softer (or tackier) on both sides that will encourage you to spin without too much effort - tackier is effort so I recommend softer, but the choice is up to you. You aren't playing at a level yet when you need to loop drive everything (if such a level exists), so get your forehand to learn to spin a bit more and use the slower equipment to work on placement. Use the same rubber on both sides for a while so you can truly get to understand the differences in both strokes. Then if your forehand clearly requires more power and you can loop consistently with slower equipment but seem to be maxing out the spin when you loop harder, you can revisit and change then. But right now, make your life easier with softer rubber. All the stuff you are listing (K3, Dignics 09c, Dragon/DNA) is all stuff that people who topspin physically hard almost every time play with. That is not you at the moment.

Softer means there will be a speed limit placed on your strokes as contact that is too thick will not spin the ball. But the speed limit should be fairly comfortable and you can do a lot within it. And when you get used to being rewarded by spin, you can upgrade. But the goal is get you to feel rewarded by topspinning and then go from there.
Thanks - that makes sense. I will get hold of a couple of sheets of Rozena and put on both sides of my all wood and use that into the off season to develop stroke and feel further.

Interestingly I notice that when I practice vs the robot and the balls mark the rubber, that on FH side I am tending to make contact on the lower half of the blade nearer to the handle. I have tried to shift it but with little success.
 
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Serving short topspin to a pips player is asking for backspin hit. How often do you attack a backspin or no-spin hit?

It will be interesting to see the match footage. The most important thing is to get returns you can read or attack. And to learn to alternate push and spin. But I think you might be slow to prepare your attacks if stuff is jamming you. You have decent serves and you really have good backhand technique, so the real problem is likely that you keep waiting to prepare the stroke late, when given that your serves have put the opponent in a box, you need to commit to the attack early. It takes training to be fair, but half the time, other than short balls over the table, I already know what I am going to do once the ball comes long based on my serve, and I just do it and see what happens and then note the results for future similar point patterns.
No footage I am afraid as it was in their small shed so no room.

Regardless, I think you are correct - I serve long backspin, get a hard, low punch into my backhand and ma not ready to roll over it in time and so stab at it and tie myself in knots.
 
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No footage I am afraid as it was in their small shed so no room.

Regardless, I think you are correct - I serve long backspin, get a hard, low punch into my backhand and ma not ready to roll over it in time and so stab at it and tie myself in knots.
You served long heavy backspin, be ready to smash or counterspin the ball no matter where it shows up. You serve long topspin, be ready the loop the backspin or no spin that shows up. You know what you put on the ball, the pips can't change the spin beyond a certain range, so as long as the ball comes long, you are ready to attack. This is broadly true for *all* service return, but since pips are not played usually, you need to use your third ball to deliberately learn and make adjustments. And if the ball behaves differently, you figure out why and adjust. But learning the differences between looping backspin, topspin and no spin with broadly similar technique is a massive shot in the arm for playing these pips players. You learn how to see what your stroke does to the ball and how to adjust so you learn from experience and play them better. Treating every stroke as wildly different makes the learning experience much harder.
 
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Also worth noting none of those guys are your typical long pips players as such! They're all a bit quirky. One has developed a pretty odd style and did have pips both sides for a while (not sure if he still does). Another does more blocking and hitting with his long pips and one just has short pips backhand but plays a bit of a funny game! All your dodgy local league styles in one fun match!
 
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Also worth noting none of those guys are your typical long pips players as such! They're all a bit quirky. One has developed a pretty odd style and did have pips both sides for a while (not sure if he still does). Another does more blocking and hitting with his long pips and one just has short pips backhand but plays a bit of a funny game! All your dodgy local league styles in one fun match!
You beat them all, right?
 
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Also worth noting none of those guys are your typical long pips players as such! They're all a bit quirky. One has developed a pretty odd style and did have pips both sides for a while (not sure if he still does). Another does more blocking and hitting with his long pips and one just has short pips backhand but plays a bit of a funny game! All your dodgy local league styles in one fun match!
Right, they each bring their own unique variety of frustration - then add the shed / prehistoric table in and you’ve a recipe for a fun evening ;-)

Short pips the easiest for me to play against as I don’t worry about the effects as much.
 
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NL said:
It is best to use largely the same serve during the match, mostly backspin and no spin combinations.

NL ripped this ultimate all time great advice right out of my playback.

HEAVY underspin shown early gets balls in nets and when they are about to adjust go light and they are about to adjust go heavy again or deep fast.

Make them pull their hair out... and when they FINALLY get a serve back, you loop it extra heavy spin they block it out over and over and you just got them in utter DISPAIR right where you want them - right in Carl's krackhouse number 13 septic tank.
 

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Interestingly I notice that when I practice vs the robot and the balls mark the rubber, that on FH side I am tending to make contact on the lower half of the blade nearer to the handle. I have tried to shift it but with little success.
Work on positioning your body further from the ball by a few cm. All else equal that will move your contact point nearer to the sweet spot.

Rozena is good. I just went back to it after two sheets of T05fx. I play slightly worse with tenergy at twice the price.
 
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There seems to be no short cut to practicing for hours against a pimples player.
A lot of robot training equals death vs long pips. The skill with lp is really watching the ball to see how much reversal or no-spin or whatever junk they applied to the ball. Robots train you out of looking closely at the ball, which is why they are a net negative except in strictly limited use.
 
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Work on positioning your body further from the ball by a few cm. All else equal that will move your contact point nearer to the sweet spot.

Rozena is good. I just went back to it after two sheets of T05fx. I play slightly worse with tenergy at twice the price.
I would not argue the main point here. Brs has been around long enough to know what works for him.

I can say 05fx is highly dynamic, I got to near 2100 using it... but now I can use firmer rubbers.

With players who are developing adults and insist on bty, I always ask they gear down to rosena and 05fx. I believe it is plenty enough, but EJs gunna be EJs
 
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A lot of robot training equals death vs long pips. The skill with lp is really watching the ball to see how much reversal or no-spin or whatever junk they applied to the ball. Robots train you out of looking closely at the ball, which is why they are a net negative except in strictly limited use.
I can see I need to be far more nuanced in my approach to reading the ball, rather than just using the routine of attacking then pushing etc. In general for my game I see the real benefits of watching the ball closely.
 
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A lot of robot training equals death vs long pips. The skill with lp is really watching the ball to see how much reversal or no-spin or whatever junk they applied to the ball. Robots train you out of looking closely at the ball, which is why they are a net negative except in strictly limited use.
I think it depends on the level too. Robot training is helpful with basic shots. Wrighty still has some issues looping when he knows the spin, so IMO he needs to improve that first which a robot can help a lot with.

The key here is it eliminates a variable. When he misses a shot vs pips right now, he may not know whether it's because he misread the spin or he misplayed the shot. When that happens it can be detrimental to his development as he may adjust his shot when he misreads the spin or vice versa, leading to confusion and errors in both spin reading and shot making. When he's more comfortable and proficient in his shot, then he'll know how to adjust his read based on how his shot went.
 
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NL didn't rip anything out of my playbook... he faced pips a thousand times and figured it out on his own what works well.
Nah, you have had good serves way longer than I have, you have to have a good backspin serve for this to make a difference. Most people serve that basic backspin so they buy into the pips make serve return easier stuff. While when you serve the real backspin, you learn pretty quickly that the pips player has to respect it. In fact, usually when I lose to a pips player, you can tell they didn't have to respect my backspin (usually a day when I either didn't disguise it well enough vs the no spin or the player has good eyes for spin on serve return).
 
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Thanks - that makes sense. I will get hold of a couple of sheets of Rozena and put on both sides of my all wood and use that into the off season to develop stroke and feel further.

Interestingly I notice that when I practice vs the robot and the balls mark the rubber, that on FH side I am tending to make contact on the lower half of the blade nearer to the handle. I have tried to shift it but with little success.
Part of it is your arm/elbow is a bit too close to your body, but part of it is really practice as it is easier for many to make contact with confidence closer to the handle (the upper third feels risky). Some people cover up the lower half of the blade on drills in order to force them to learn the difference. It is one of the biggest reasons the Cybershape and even the longer head blades makes sense - put more racket face where the sweetspot is! I suspect over time, the Cybershape blade will become more and more popular because while there are tradeoffs, the physics is extremely sound.
 
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