How do i resolve some of my critical errors

[blahness]

OK this is a pet peeves of mine. Rant coming up...
1. This is why sometimes we are "forced" to pay a certain professional fee to REAL coaches to practice multi-ball.
2. Not all sparring / ball feeding partner are created equal.
3. There are those ignoramus who will scorn and snigger at others, stating, " You are a fool to pay people to feed you balls when you can do it for free with your club mates "
4. There are those ignoramus who block back with all funny angles and weird spin because of their poor / untrained techniques and when you are unable to topspin back, they will say you have poor topspin technique not understanding that they themselves give poor inconsistent blocks.
5. When one points out that their block is poor, they will say, in competition aka real world, the opponent will not make it easy for one to topspin back. They cannot tell the difference between practice and real game play... sigh.
6. That is why sometimes, when we play with low level players we will get surprised by all these weird placement because of their erratic ball return that they themselves had no idea what happen too. I mean, they too have no idea what spin that comes to them nor what spin they impart on the ball. To them, as long as the ball lands on the other side it is good.
7. I could go on and on with my rant but I'll stop at 6.

This is why they will always be low level players... but there is some value to training against weird af blockers like that in that your footwork and adjustment capabilities really are tested to the limit. It's way harder to loop against those junk blocks than proper blocks from a coach which always has stable trajectory and spin and speed.

Also it gives you good habits of always producing a lot of spin to handle the variation compared to borrowing the incoming spin.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

This is why they will always be low level players... but there is some value to training against weird af blockers like that in that your footwork and adjustment capabilities really are tested to the limit. It's way harder to loop against those junk blocks than proper blocks from a coach which always has stable trajectory and spin and speed.

Also it gives you good habits of always producing a lot of spin to handle the variation compared to borrowing the incoming spin.

and the problem is, when the topspiner increases the spin, the blocks goes here and there and we end up to 95% of time picking up balls from the floor.

 

[blahness]

and the problem is, when the topspiner increases the spin, the blocks goes here and there and we end up to 95% of time picking up balls from the floor.

This is where ball picker + a box of balls comes very handy. I do like 30+ balls minimum, and even if the blocker makes a mistake here and there I still get a lot of practice in in a very short amount of time. The limit is more on the endurance rather than ball picking.

I never hold back when I do loop practice - imo it's a bad habit. Half hearted shots in practice = low quality half hearted shots in matches.

 

[ben1229]

This is where ball picker + a box of balls comes very handy. I do like 30+ balls minimum, and even if the blocker makes a mistake here and there I still get a lot of practice in in a very short amount of time. The limit is more on the endurance rather than ball picking.

I never hold back when I do loop practice - imo it's a bad habit. Half hearted shots in practice = low quality half hearted shots in matches.

I block ball very good, come NY and do some training.

 

[longle]

your strokes look like a penholder style that closed angle FH will make tremendous topspins and sidespins but when you face opponents who can block fast you may hit the edge more often. Also the placement is limited to the left side of the table. I think you can try to open the wrist more to also hit straight liner. That will give variations to your game

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

How are you at looping fade spin (inside out side spin) with FH from the BH corner to opponent's BH corner?

It might be worth showing footage of that and how you do that. Does your grip and the angle on the racket change when you hit fade spin like that?

 

[latej]

Hey Attitude, congrats to the progress, proved by the increase in the rankings.

One detail I try to do to speed up the back-swing. Immediately after the stroke (as Der_Echte mentions) try to go with your elbow back/close to the body. The arm will get more bent, it won't (and it shoudn't) stay stretched (or slightly stretched). Then you continue your back-swing back-body-rotation from there, and because the elbow is closer (and the arm not straight), the rotation can be faster. Somebody pointed this to me a while a go, that my back-swing can look clumsy, and it was true. In other words, during back-swing, the arm bents and unbents signif. more than before. I believe it also influences other things, but I'd say, let's try that first.

Also it's good to have someone who hungers for improvements, like you. People learn the technique some way and sometimes they start to believe it will be hard or close to impossible to change. I think it's a fallacy. I know you don't believe that, but wanted to mention anyway.

 

[Attitude]

How are you at looping fade spin (inside out side spin) with FH from the BH corner to opponent's BH corner?

It might be worth showing footage of that and how you do that. Does your grip and the angle on the racket change when you hit fade spin like that?

In training unsurprisingly i suck at that. The ball gets way too often into the middle or even nearly down the line.
In matches however i compensate by turning myself more open and manage to hit the ball in the direction i want it to go, but with the "wrong" sidespin. And the position i am in after that shot sucks. Gladly the balls arent coming back that often.
Buuuuuuut in my defence i am not a pro and therefore lack the time to train that many shots. I have the inside out loop in the back of my mind, but that is not a priority in training for me currently.

So in order to keep the thread manageable id like to sum up severals points you made instead of answering every single one.

• Dont always swing so hard, @gordonluvsu
  • I am definitly trying to keep myself more compact and try to address the issue by not overstraighten my arm (as @blahness and @latej pointed out), but that is a work in progress and other things are too, especially at the harder strokes as i am training in this video (around 60-80%)
• Not such a big upward movement
  • Especially for the follow up i guess. Yeah thats straight up a bad habbit and currently i am adjusting weird, because i did 2 things at the same time that doesnt seem to work quite well together: Closing the racket more and performing the followup stroke to the direction of my forehead.
    Definitly gonna work on opening up more on that racket angle (though i am not so sure about the 15 degree thing) and trying to perform a more forward motion
• Yeah, yeah footwork @blahness, @Nima Abadi and several other before^^
  • I am aware of that and it takes part in my training regularly. The main problem imo with it, that it does add up several problems around it, like watching my own ball as Nima pointed out correctly, not resetting propperly, swinging with a straight arm and so on - and that takes even more time to correct
• Use your waist more @kingkimchi
  • By that you mean more rotation of the core? Gonna need to doublecheck on that if that is needed and might help. I could see it working to prevent or reduce the upward movement
• Avoid "hooking"
  • I am already doing this but i always need to hard focus on that. If shift my focus, it usually happens again in midstroke. I am already trying to traing my wrist seperatly in hope it gets a bit stiffer and not that lose anymore that it comes down unwanted.
• Opening more up the wrist @longle
  • Yeah i am aware of that. The issue is less around what to change but how to change. I maybe should have made that clearer: Hooking my wrist in so much is not a wanted behaviour of mine. It is more one i want to change. But since it has become a bad habit i have some issues of resolving that by just "do it differently"^^

Hope i didnt forget anything, but eitherway that worked out to be more stuff than i anticipated.
The footwork and movement stuff was something i am more than aware of but rest gave me some thing to consider even further.

Besides training with full focus, any more tips on especially breaking some of these bad habits that got mentioned?

 

[Dominikk85]

Tested and couldnt get used to it. That is probably not an option.

That is the thing, my fh does get blocked rarely. And in case i can start off with my fh i hit those 80-90% of the time.
I dont really wanna argue about consistency but if you point out the block errors the average is way higher^^

So true. Maybe i should do some robot training again from time to time.
The only question remains how to engage more. Should i focus on changing the racket angle, should i put more effort again into my strokes, should i move more forward for topspins? Or all at once?😅

I'm not really qualified to give advice but you seem to take a huge, very long backswing.

Are you getting time stressed when an opponent blocks it back fast?

 

[Attitude]

I'm not really qualified to give advice but you seem to take a huge, very long backswing.

Are you getting time stressed when an opponent blocks it back fast?

Nah not really stressed. My body and mind are just starting this season to getting used to that anyway. But in this year chilling around, and checking first if a block comes is stupid. Because if it comes, im not ready and have to drive it instead of keep on attacking. This costs crucial points.
On top, in case i get myself ready to follow up, im usually not consistent enough due to my slower resets, movements and bad technique.

But if you mean i lack time afterwards, then that is correct due to the reasons mentioned above.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

In training unsurprisingly i suck at that. The ball gets way too often into the middle or even nearly down the line.
In matches however i compensate by turning myself more open and manage to hit the ball in the direction i want it to go, but with the "wrong" sidespin. And the position i am in after that shot sucks. Gladly the balls arent coming back that often.
Buuuuuuut in my defence i am not a pro and therefore lack the time to train that many shots. I have the inside out loop in the back of my mind, but that is not a priority in training for me currently.

Having been in that position where I had a big hook and a big hook grip, I do understand your resistance.

However, I will say, I have a feeling, if you worked on the shift in wrist angle that would allow you to make that shot, and worked on in just enough so you were not stuck with making all of your forehands very hook oriented, it may straighten out a whole bunch of things that are happening.

Also, I don't think it would take much time. You just would break things down and go simple and and try to hit fade spin with FH from BH corner to BH corner for 5-10 min a few times a week and not think much about it, and at a certain point you will notice certain things that give you trouble will just fall away and stop giving you trouble.

I think a lot of people have said a lot of good info. I think a small amount of time focused on that one little detail of what you need to do, how you need to contact the ball to create fade spin, could actually indirectly impact a lot of the things others like Der have pointed out.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Just to add, even the feet....because your FH being very hook oriented, you are stuck with needing to always contact the outside of the ball. Having the choice of sometimes contacting the back of the ball or the inside of the ball with slight shifts in wrist angle, you may find you do not have to move as far to the FH side as often.

 

[blahness]

In training unsurprisingly i suck at that. The ball gets way too often into the middle or even nearly down the line.
In matches however i compensate by turning myself more open and manage to hit the ball in the direction i want it to go, but with the "wrong" sidespin. And the position i am in after that shot sucks. Gladly the balls arent coming back that often.
Buuuuuuut in my defence i am not a pro and therefore lack the time to train that many shots. I have the inside out loop in the back of my mind, but that is not a priority in training for me currently.

So in order to keep the thread manageable id like to sum up severals points you made instead of answering every single one.

• Dont always swing so hard, @gordonluvsu
  • I am definitly trying to keep myself more compact and try to address the issue by not overstraighten my arm (as @blahness and @latej pointed out), but that is a work in progress and other things are too, especially at the harder strokes as i am training in this video (around 60-80%)
• Not such a big upward movement
  • Especially for the follow up i guess. Yeah thats straight up a bad habbit and currently i am adjusting weird, because i did 2 things at the same time that doesnt seem to work quite well together: Closing the racket more and performing the followup stroke to the direction of my forehead.
    Definitly gonna work on opening up more on that racket angle (though i am not so sure about the 15 degree thing) and trying to perform a more forward motion
• Yeah, yeah footwork @blahness, @Nima Abadi and several other before^^
  • I am aware of that and it takes part in my training regularly. The main problem imo with it, that it does add up several problems around it, like watching my own ball as Nima pointed out correctly, not resetting propperly, swinging with a straight arm and so on - and that takes even more time to correct
• Use your waist more @kingkimchi
  • By that you mean more rotation of the core? Gonna need to doublecheck on that if that is needed and might help. I could see it working to prevent or reduce the upward movement
• Avoid "hooking"
  • I am already doing this but i always need to hard focus on that. If shift my focus, it usually happens again in midstroke. I am already trying to traing my wrist seperatly in hope it gets a bit stiffer and not that lose anymore that it comes down unwanted.
• Opening more up the wrist @longle
  • Yeah i am aware of that. The issue is less around what to change but how to change. I maybe should have made that clearer: Hooking my wrist in so much is not a wanted behaviour of mine. It is more one i want to change. But since it has become a bad habit i have some issues of resolving that by just "do it differently"^^

Hope i didnt forget anything, but eitherway that worked out to be more stuff than i anticipated.
The footwork and movement stuff was something i am more than aware of but rest gave me some thing to consider even further.

Besides training with full focus, any more tips on especially breaking some of these bad habits that got mentioned?

For a lot of stuff you need to do a shit ton of shadow training + visualization away from the table to fix - imo this is the fastest way. At the table with ball pressure - this is very hard or even impossible. When you go back to the table to train you should use very simple exercises with predictable placements so that you can implement your fixes.

One tip on the arm straightening, keep it bent and elbow close to your body for the backswing, ie use the body rotation alone for the backswing. This way your arm stays loose. And you only straighten your arm (as it lags behind your body rotation) as you start your forward swing. This will also make you use more body/core compared to your arm which was another issue. The backswing determines the forward swing to a degree. Once you have a more compact swing, it's much easier to implement the reset step because you actually have more time.

 

[blahness]

On the hooking issue I second Carl's opinion, the easiest path to fix that is to train up a fade topspin. The normal topspin is basically just somewhere in between the fade and hook. Then you can fade or hook to your liking which is very useful to increase the angles that your opponent needs to cover.

 

[scrubplayer]

Power swing, from 30%,45%,65%,75% 20 balls each power level will help. And maybe a better partner?

that's what i want to say. The partner is not good enough. Partner need to be able to consistently put the ball on the table while you work on your technique, not missing around screwing up with rhythm.

 

[kingkimchi]

In training unsurprisingly i suck at that. The ball gets way too often into the middle or even nearly down the line.
In matches however i compensate by turning myself more open and manage to hit the ball in the direction i want it to go, but with the "wrong" sidespin. And the position i am in after that shot sucks. Gladly the balls arent coming back that often.
Buuuuuuut in my defence i am not a pro and therefore lack the time to train that many shots. I have the inside out loop in the back of my mind, but that is not a priority in training for me currently.

So in order to keep the thread manageable id like to sum up severals points you made instead of answering every single one.

• Dont always swing so hard, @gordonluvsu
  • I am definitly trying to keep myself more compact and try to address the issue by not overstraighten my arm (as @blahness and @latej pointed out), but that is a work in progress and other things are too, especially at the harder strokes as i am training in this video (around 60-80%)
• Not such a big upward movement
  • Especially for the follow up i guess. Yeah thats straight up a bad habbit and currently i am adjusting weird, because i did 2 things at the same time that doesnt seem to work quite well together: Closing the racket more and performing the followup stroke to the direction of my forehead.
    Definitly gonna work on opening up more on that racket angle (though i am not so sure about the 15 degree thing) and trying to perform a more forward motion
• Yeah, yeah footwork @blahness, @Nima Abadi and several other before^^
  • I am aware of that and it takes part in my training regularly. The main problem imo with it, that it does add up several problems around it, like watching my own ball as Nima pointed out correctly, not resetting propperly, swinging with a straight arm and so on - and that takes even more time to correct
• Use your waist more @kingkimchi
  • By that you mean more rotation of the core? Gonna need to doublecheck on that if that is needed and might help. I could see it working to prevent or reduce the upward movement
• Avoid "hooking"
  • I am already doing this but i always need to hard focus on that. If shift my focus, it usually happens again in midstroke. I am already trying to traing my wrist seperatly in hope it gets a bit stiffer and not that lose anymore that it comes down unwanted.
• Opening more up the wrist @longle
  • Yeah i am aware of that. The issue is less around what to change but how to change. I maybe should have made that clearer: Hooking my wrist in so much is not a wanted behaviour of mine. It is more one i want to change. But since it has become a bad habit i have some issues of resolving that by just "do it differently"^^

Hope i didnt forget anything, but eitherway that worked out to be more stuff than i anticipated.
The footwork and movement stuff was something i am more than aware of but rest gave me some thing to consider even further.

Besides training with full focus, any more tips on especially breaking some of these bad habits that got mentioned?

Use your waist and arm syncronised. Your arm and wrist is just an extension, your need to use your core, legs, and arm to feel the ball. Consistency is key, remember it is a whole body movement.

 

[longle]

in the end don't think too much, just keep practicing and battling, you will figure it out yourself

 

[latej]

• I am definitly trying to keep myself more compact and try to address the issue by not overstraighten my arm (as @blahness and @latej pointed out), but that is a work in progress and other things are too, especially at the harder strokes as i am training in this video (around 60-80%)

Sorry, I didn't mean over-straightening in the forward swing. I was specifically speaking about the back-swing, and @blahness too, I believe.

 

[gordonluvsu]

 

[Attitude]

Sorry, I didn't mean over-straightening in the forward swing. I was specifically speaking about the back-swing, and @blahness too, I believe.

Sure thing, but i am capable of overstraightening my arm. It is... Flexible^^
And some time ago i completly lengthened my arm and bend it in the other direction, and that was my motion for every attack. That is the reason i described it like that.

Now i am at least not doing that specific motion anymore, besides the "go for broke" shots.