Illegal Serving

[tabletennisuk]

Having just watched the first half of Koki Niwa vs Steffen Mengel, I have no idea how Mengel was allowed to get away with his serve as many times as he did. It's terrible! If he had thrown it any further back, it would have been on the table behind him! His reverse pendulum serve should be banned!! How can a professional table tennis player serve so illegally!? They have no excuse whatsoever!


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[mahomedy13]

there are many pros who serve illegally and get away with it.its nt right,but thats reality.

 

[Alborz]

Yes his serve illegal. But it doesn't give him any advantage.
As far as i know you can serve illegal until your opponent start saying its illegal. And he would never say that serves are illegal because his serves are illegal too!

 

[tabletennisuk]

How can you say he doesn't get an advantage!? It's a reverse pendulum serve that he is throwing backwards onto his racket, he's gets a huge advantage! Anyone with a reverse serve like his gets a massive advantage from throwing the ball backwards! He wouldn't get half the amount of pace or spin on the ball if he threw the ball straight up! He can modify his serve by starting with the ball closer to the body, rather than his starting point being so far away from his body. He has to throw it back to even do the serve!!


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[jeycop]

I've actually seen a player saying that his opponent is serving illegal, Bastian Steger vs Tan Ruiwu European championships 2012, check it out!

 

[Belisar]

As far as i know you can serve illegal until your opponent start saying its illegal.

Is this really true?

Surely the umpire should be making the call and if they are doing their job properly they should not need prompting from the opponent.

If this was a local league match or event without a proper umpire then I would agree that the way it works is the scorer never calls unless the opponent says something.

 

[JHB]

Yes Mengel's serve is pretty bad, isn't it. Personally I'm quite happy so long as my opponent puts the ball on his palm, throws it up and hits it on the way down - but professionals should be playing to all the rules, not just those which suit them. Perhaps ITTF need to review the law again and come up with something which umpires are prepared to enforce......

 

[tabletennisuk]

It's not the fact that they don't enforce it which bothers me, it's the fact they enforce it once, then the guy will do the same serve and it'll apparently be fine!? There was a game at the world teams a couple of years ago with gardos and one other where the umpire consistently faulted the player for what he deemed to be a foul serve. This is what we need! The worst bit was, an ittf official then came over and told him to give it a rest!!!


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[mahomedy13]

ive seen a few matches where people hav been faulted.michael maze many a time got faulted for a too low toss.

 

[Alborz]

Is this really true?

Surely the umpire should be making the call and if they are doing their job properly they should not need prompting from the opponent.

If this was a local league match or event without a proper umpire then I would agree that the way it works is the scorer never calls unless the opponent says something.

Actually there are so many things that umpires don't care about. They don't care about illegal serves and equipment because everyone are using them.

 

[Tinykin]

Alborz, are you an umpire?
If not, why not qualify yourself and umpire those tournaments where you are not a player.
It will widen your understanding of the sport

 

[Alborz]

Alborz, are you an umpire?
If not, why not qualify yourself and umpire those tournaments where you are not a player.
It will widen your understanding of the sport

No i'm not. But i have heard these things form someone how talked to one of international umpires.

 

[johndol]

No i'm not. But i have heard these things form someone how talked to one of international umpires.

Ah, rumours again. By the way, stating that they don't care is not true. It's just that most of the time the umpire did not want to make the call is because the don't want to ruin the intensity of the game. If you are on high level game you will know, a single minor disruption will damage your entire game. So between having a very good game and sacrifice a bit on the serving issue or make a call and ruin the entire game, most of the time they will just let it pass. It's not like those kinda serve give additional advantage to the world class player, but maybe to us there is a world of difference.

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[mahomedy13]

Ah, rumours again. By the way, stating that they don't care is not true. It's just that most of the time the umpire did not want to make the call is because the don't want to ruin the intensity of the game. If you are on high level game you will know, a single minor disruption will damage your entire game. So between having a very good game and sacrifice a bit on the serving issue or make a call and ruin the entire game, most of the time they will just let it pass. It's not like those kinda serve give additional advantage to the world class player, but maybe to us there is a world of difference.

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Dont get it wrong.illegal serves give the server a big advantage.take a look at wtttc 2014.in a match between ma long and im nt sure the other guy,ml was playing the serves back defensively when there was no spin on it.normally a serve like that would be attacked.

 

[johndol]

Dont get it wrong.illegal serves give the server a big advantage.take a look at wtttc 2014.in a match between ma long and im nt sure the other guy,ml was playing the serves back defensively when there was no spin on it.normally a serve like that would be attacked.

Nope, I don't get it wrong. How often you see an ace serve in any world class game? And how often you see an ace serve that is illegal in the world class game? The example you given is one of an isolated issue. Ma Long vs a guy you don't even know. And how sure are you that ML has done an illegal serve? How about an example on illegal serve from ML vs XX? Or perhaps ML vs ZJK? Do you see he gets any advantage playing an illegal serve with them? Most of the time their serve is arguably illegal, but it is not totally illegal. But they did not bother, because like I said it did not give any added advantage to the player. If you believe it does, perhaps you can show me some video, or maybe a link to show that illegal serve done perhaps by ZJK, ML or whoever against their opponent. I mean, their well known opponent and not some guy you don't even know

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[agold]

Nope, I don't get it wrong. How often you see an ace serve in any world class game? And how often you see an ace serve that is illegal in the world class game? The example you given is one of an isolated issue. Ma Long vs a guy you don't even know. And how sure are you that ML has done an illegal serve? How about an example on illegal serve from ML vs XX? Or perhaps ML vs ZJK? Do you see he gets any advantage playing an illegal serve with them? Most of the time their serve is arguably illegal, but it is not totally illegal. But they did not bother, because like I said it did not give any added advantage to the player. If you believe it does, perhaps you can show me some video, or maybe a link to show that illegal serve done perhaps by ZJK, ML or whoever against their opponent. I mean, their well known opponent and not some guy you don't even know

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The good serve sets up a third ball and a good return ruins the anticipation. So you can't measure based on aces.

 

[johndol]

The good serve sets up a third ball and a good return ruins the anticipation. So you can't measure based on aces.

Ah yes I agree, but even without the illegal serve they also serve the purpose. Still there is 2 thing I did not agree

1) the umpire did not care about the illegal serve.
2) the so called illegal serve are illegal and give an added advantage to the world class player.

And thank you for the fact agold, it is very true

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[mahomedy13]

Nope, I don't get it wrong. How often you see an ace serve in any world class game? And how often you see an ace serve that is illegal in the world class game? The example you given is one of an isolated issue. Ma Long vs a guy you don't even know. And how sure are you that ML has done an illegal serve? How about an example on illegal serve from ML vs XX? Or perhaps ML vs ZJK? Do you see he gets any advantage playing an illegal serve with them? Most of the time their serve is arguably illegal, but it is not totally illegal. But they did not bother, because like I said it did not give any added advantage to the player. If you believe it does, perhaps you can show me some video, or maybe a link to show that illegal serve done perhaps by ZJK, ML or whoever against their opponent. I mean, their well known opponent and not some guy you don't even know

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Maybe if you read correctly then you will notice that ml wasnt the person serving.as for the other guy,i do nt recall his name,but he is in the top 50.

 

[agold]

Maybe the rule is too strict—maybe the serve toss should be able to come towards you or away from you. But a rule I a rule, and it should be followed, or else it makes the ittf look bad. I mean, remember when Mizutani boycotted the ittf? They should play by the rules, and get rid of them if they are bad.

 

[Der_Echte]

your application of common sense (correct) will likely never be adopted.