In search of a new blade

[sanavasaraja]

Hello dear table tennis friends!


Once again I am looking to capitalize on your collective extensive knowledge. This time around it's going to be a new blade.




In short
I am currently playing on a Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro Black Edition with Hurricane 3 NEO on my forehand and Evolution FX-S on my backhand.


This setup generally speaking provides me with enough speed and I am happy thus far, but sometimes it also feels a little ”rigid”. I have a chinese looping style with a slight european touch. Close to the table I have deadly kill shots and more than enough speed.


Mid-distance due to my setup not being the fastest around, I can pressure my opponents by loop-smashing full-body into the ball for insane spin, which I really, really like. CRACK! However, on some occasions mid-distance and further I am lacking some speed/pressure against people who play slower, less spinny balls (especially because you have to spin the ball with H3N to get sufficient tempo). Reactive (punch)blockers with and without pips that take away the pace of my game are my very cryptonite currently – I have to improve my footwork and placements. Also when I'm sometimes out of position and can't put my full body into the shot, it's also lacking quality. Especially my backhand could use a bit more kick from further away.


Recently I have been making improvements in my level of play and I am facing way better opponents. I just can't outpace them consistently with my current technique directly at the table, which forces me to play from further away.


I am looking for
- something more loopy
- something that provides a bit more pressure from mid-distance against empty balls or in general (a bit more flex or some soft, thin carbon technology?)
- while not losing (too much) of the all-wood feel which I thoroughly enjoy and sometimes even rely on
- very important that it mustn't be head-heavy
- I am really interested in OSP blades, but from what I've read the OSP Virtuoso+ might be a notch too slow(?), the V'King might be too rigid and the Ultimate might be not ”loopy” enough

… it is difficult to explain what I am really looking for. I don't need/want a speed monster. I don't win through speed alone. I just want a looping machine with a little bit more bite, something that has some kick to it when I need it while looping from further away.


In more detail
I play most of the time close to the table to moderately mid-distance.

My forehand plays an OFF to OFF+ game with slower very heavy rotational topspins and hard & fast drive-smashes.
Very basic chinese style with a bit of a european touch to it, good intuitive technique and execution, not much to say. I am very happy with the equally straight-forward and simple H3N rubber.

My backhand is ALL+ to OFF.
Fairly wristy. Previously I have been playing EL-S and Acuda P2. The EL-S gave me absolutely viscious attacking shots while I had control issues in passive play on critical points. The P2 gave me unspeakable control on everything but was thoroughly harmless. The FX-S forms a great midway. However I am still missing some ferociousness.
Defensive game: I block passively but more often actively, often directly off-the-bounce to pressure my opponent and keep the higher pace that I capitalize on. I also like to redirect the ball to prepare for my more aggressive forehand. When I must I push with good backspin, but I always actively look to open against backspin. Don't have patience for push wars, which I find silly. Really dislike those.
Offensive game: On the table my offensive spinny strokes are flippy and forward-oriented. Directly behind the table I like to let the ball drop down and pick it up with a very steep motion that gives extreme spin and makes it hard to block. Generally fast, sharp and compact strokes with thin contact. From further away shots arc nicely with moderate spin, but they aren't dangerous at all, mainly keep the ball in the game.




Thank you very much already just for reading. Unfortunately I don't have the opportunities to test a lot of blades. However a blade is along-term investment and I am ready to pay a few bucks (a bit above 100€ is no prob but no insane prices).


I'd be glad for any suggestions.

 

[QWERTY Spin]

I havent seen you play and dont know your level so this is a internet diagnosis which can be neglected if it doesnt apply to you. I think the most important part you wrote is this:

"Reactive (punch)blockers with and without pips that take away the pace of my game are my very cryptonite currently – I have to improve my footwork and placements. Also when I'm sometimes out of position and can't put my full body into the shot, it's also lacking quality. Especially my backhand could use a bit more kick from further away.

Recently I have been making improvements in my level of play and I am facing way better opponents. I just can't outpace them consistently with my current technique directly at the table, which forces me to play from further away."

You probably just have to improve and keep working on your footwork. This sounds to me like the typical "chinese stroke" dilemma. By playing with h3neo this is what you have to sacrifice. Its always a bad sign if you get pushed away from the table and lose control over the pace of the game. Which you try to compensate with a different blade but the more fitting aspect would be to either dont get pushed away or learn to accelerate more and harder into the ball for spin and speed away from the table.
Thats why chinese rubbers are often in a disadvantage because their strength cant be utilized to the level needed but you waste way more energy and recovery time.
You could be better of with a tensor rubber in that case.

Also this doesnt have to apply to you but some people say they have a chinese stroke but in reality they lack acceleration into the ball and try to compensate that with a long arm swing.

From your description you like alot about your setup and just want a little bit more kick from far away from the table which you usually dont want to play at. When changing the blade you will likely suffer in other areas just to improve in an area you are not comfortable with.

And if all this does not apply to you then you should look for a limba off 5ply wood which could help you with a little bit less 'rigid' feeling. Or you take a look at some innerply alc/zlc blades or some thinner carbon blades (carbonado,xiom vega pro). But if you dont have the chance to test many of those blades it is way more risky than working on your technique or changing to a tensor rubber.

 

[SFF_lib]

Hello dear table tennis friends!


Once again I am looking to capitalize on your collective extensive knowledge. This time around it's going to be a new blade.




In short
I am currently playing on a Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro Black Edition with Hurricane 3 NEO on my forehand and Evolution FX-S on my backhand.


This setup generally speaking provides me with enough speed and I am happy thus far, but sometimes it also feels a little ”rigid”. I have a chinese looping style with a slight european touch. Close to the table I have deadly kill shots and more than enough speed.


Mid-distance due to my setup not being the fastest around, I can pressure my opponents by loop-smashing full-body into the ball for insane spin, which I really, really like. CRACK! However, on some occasions mid-distance and further I am lacking some speed/pressure against people who play slower, less spinny balls (especially because you have to spin the ball with H3N to get sufficient tempo). Reactive (punch)blockers with and without pips that take away the pace of my game are my very cryptonite currently – I have to improve my footwork and placements. Also when I'm sometimes out of position and can't put my full body into the shot, it's also lacking quality. Especially my backhand could use a bit more kick from further away.


Recently I have been making improvements in my level of play and I am facing way better opponents. I just can't outpace them consistently with my current technique directly at the table, which forces me to play from further away.


I am looking for
- something more loopy
- something that provides a bit more pressure from mid-distance against empty balls or in general (a bit more flex or some soft, thin carbon technology?)
- while not losing (too much) of the all-wood feel which I thoroughly enjoy and sometimes even rely on
- very important that it mustn't be head-heavy
- I am really interested in OSP blades, but from what I've read the OSP Virtuoso+ might be a notch too slow(?), the V'King might be too rigid and the Ultimate might be not ”loopy” enough

… it is difficult to explain what I am really looking for. I don't need/want a speed monster. I don't win through speed alone. I just want a looping machine with a little bit more bite, something that has some kick to it when I need it while looping from further away.


In more detail
I play most of the time close to the table to moderately mid-distance.

My forehand plays an OFF to OFF+ game with slower very heavy rotational topspins and hard & fast drive-smashes.
Very basic chinese style with a bit of a european touch to it, good intuitive technique and execution, not much to say. I am very happy with the equally straight-forward and simple H3N rubber.

My backhand is ALL+ to OFF.
Fairly wristy. Previously I have been playing EL-S and Acuda P2. The EL-S gave me absolutely viscious attacking shots while I had control issues in passive play on critical points. The P2 gave me unspeakable control on everything but was thoroughly harmless. The FX-S forms a great midway. However I am still missing some ferociousness.
Defensive game: I block passively but more often actively, often directly off-the-bounce to pressure my opponent and keep the higher pace that I capitalize on. I also like to redirect the ball to prepare for my more aggressive forehand. When I must I push with good backspin, but I always actively look to open against backspin. Don't have patience for push wars, which I find silly. Really dislike those.
Offensive game: On the table my offensive spinny strokes are flippy and forward-oriented. Directly behind the table I like to let the ball drop down and pick it up with a very steep motion that gives extreme spin and makes it hard to block. Generally fast, sharp and compact strokes with thin contact. From further away shots arc nicely with moderate spin, but they aren't dangerous at all, mainly keep the ball in the game.




Thank you very much already just for reading. Unfortunately I don't have the opportunities to test a lot of blades. However a blade is along-term investment and I am ready to pay a few bucks (a bit above 100€ is no prob but no insane prices).


I'd be glad for any suggestions.

It's a difficult decision. My style is similar to you except that I play a lot of mid-distance looping. I use H3 on my FH too.
Your options are:
**Softer 7-ply (DHS Long 3)
**Hard 5-ply (Intensity NCT, Celero Wood etc)

My recent blade has a thick Kiso Hinoki layer on top of the carbon layer. Kiso Hinoki has a special effect. It is soft thus good feel. But it pushes the ball out like a spring. Therefore it is good for both hitting and looping. The carbon layer kicks in when I loop far from the table. So far it pairs very well with my H3. There are a few blades out there - Butterfly Photino, Butterfly Amultart ZL and Yinhe Z5 VF.

 

[BeGo]

- something more loopy
- something that provides a bit more pressure from mid-distance against empty balls or in general (a bit more flex or some soft, thin carbon technology?)

I am sorry, I am not familliar with your blade, but I have tried the rubber, but,

Err, those two stand opposite of each other. The spinnier a combi is, the poorer it perform on mid distance. I can recommend many combi that less spinny than H3, but, your short game would be suffering. [emoji6]

- very important that it mustn't be head-heavy
Time for Der Echte Beast Mod. [emoji6]

- I am really interested in OSP blades, but from what I've read the OSP Virtuoso+ might be a notch too slow(?), the V'King might be too rigid and the Ultimate might be not ”loopy” enough
- Summon Carl [emoji6]


Sent from my T1X Plus using Tapatalk

 

[Der_Echte]

- something more loopy
- something that provides a bit more pressure from mid-distance against empty balls or in general (a bit more flex or some soft, thin carbon technology?)

I am sorry, I am not familliar with your blade, but I have tried the rubber, but,

Err, those two stand opposite of each other. The spinnier a combi is, the poorer it perform on mid distance. I can recommend many combi that less spinny than H3, but, your short game would be suffering. [emoji6]

- very important that it mustn't be head-heavy
Time for Der Echte Beast Mod. [emoji6]

- I am really interested in OSP blades, but from what I've read the OSP Virtuoso+ might be a notch too slow(?), the V'King might be too rigid and the Ultimate might be not ”loopy” enough
- Summon Carl [emoji6]


Sent from my T1X Plus using Tapatalk

If the OP would do a BEAST MOD on hiz current blade and add, say 18 grams, he would have the best of both worlds of his desired specs. Hard to find that in a new blade, he is accustomed to hiz current blade. Beast Mod is a realistic option.

 

[sanavasaraja]

[...]
You probably just have to improve and keep working on your footwork. This sounds to me like the typical "chinese stroke" dilemma. By playing with h3neo this is what you have to sacrifice. Its always a bad sign if you get pushed away from the table and lose control over the pace of the game. Which you try to compensate with a different blade but the more fitting aspect would be to either dont get pushed away or learn to accelerate more and harder into the ball for spin and speed away from the table.
[...]

No, you're absolutely correct. This happens to me more often than not when I'm half way through the training session and getting physically tired. I am not a gram overweight, I can run half-marathons and everything, I am in good shape. But after 1,5 hours without break of smashing my body into the ball, it's taking its toll on the quality of my shots.

From your description you like alot about your setup and just want a little bit more kick from far away from the table which you usually dont want to play at. When changing the blade you will likely suffer in other areas just to improve in an area you are not comfortable with.
[...]

I should say, I usually don't play from further away, because my opponents thus far couldn't handle the speed and spin of my shots and the game usually would rarely develop that far. The H3N made my game more stable, I do fewer mistakes and so I rose in the rankings. But by no means do I have something against playing one or two steps back.

I absolutely should work on my physicality and technique above all. The blade is not meant to be a fix for that (see below)

- something more loopy
- something that provides a bit more pressure from mid-distance against empty balls or in general (a bit more flex or some soft, thin carbon technology?)

I am sorry, I am not familliar with your blade, but I have tried the rubber, but,

Err, those two stand opposite of each other. The spinnier a combi is, the poorer it perform on mid distance. I can recommend many combi that less spinny than H3, but, your short game would be suffering. [emoji6]

I knew I couldn't get that one past you. I am aware that those run a bit counter to eachother.

Honestly I should've clarified from the start that the speed upgrade, which if any, I don't want a too drastic one. It would just screw up my entire game. The main aspect though is the subtle change of my style, for which just a slight speed increase could be beneficial. I thought if I threw it in, there might be a holy grail of a blade suggestion. That's my mistake!
With my previous MX-S tensor, while having a similar looping style, I could also get away with a lot of smash-slapping (if that words tells you anything). The hardish 7-ply worked great in that regard. Extremely stable, perfectly suited.


The blade switch is not really motivated to compensate for something that I might fix by training. It's just time for a new blade and I thought I might fit it more to how my game has changed lately. I straight smash/drive a lot less, the loop percentage of my shots has increased.


Of course it's always great to have something to look at. I just find it very awkward to film, since where I train, I can't do that without filming others as well. Then I would have to ask my training partner(s) and find a good angle, which will also prove to be difficult.
How should I put it? My ranking isn't representative of my ability since I started anew a few months ago after over a decade of being absent from the sport. The ranking is taking leaps upwards every time there's ranked matches (which is rare in Finland). When I started out of course I was losing against everybody. Now, on a bad day I lose against a 1400-1450 ranked guy maybe because of some weird playing style, because I do “the Dima“ and don't want to adjust my game and try to go head first through a wall. On a great day, I can take sets off 1950-2000 ranking if the style fits me and the guy doesn't show his A-game. I don't know how finnish TTR translate to others. I would describe myself as a good intermediate player who lacks consistency.
My two major problems are: I have trouble predicting how and where the ball would go. This just needs experience, experience, experience. Secondly, I need to be constantly moving more than I do now. As the training progresses, I grow lazy. Both cause me to sometimes not be in good position for my shots. Training, training, traning!


So far I've been having romantic thoughts mostly about the Virtuoso+. I might add, even a slightly slower blade would be a fine choice. I don't want a rocket. The most important part is the feel anyway (which nullifies the whole idea of asking in an online forum lol). Hence also the description of my playstyle so you guys can imagine what it looks like which your experience of having seen a lot.

 

[ajtatosmano2]

I think you would like my blade. Unfortunately, it's only available in Hungary.
It doesn't has a good 'feeling' like Virtuoso and it's quite stiff, but not hard (limba outer ply). It has a textreme (glassfiber+aluminium) layer next to the core.
However it's very reliable. Good short game, good speed when it's needed. Beacause of the lack of good feeling you have to play a while to get used to and you won't notice how good it was until you try other blades and you find them unpredictable.

What about Innerforce? It sounds like a good choice, but don't know about the speed comparison (I haven't tried the Samsonov Force Pro Black).

 

[BeGo]

No, you're absolutely correct. This happens to me more often than not when I'm half way through the training session and getting physically tired. I am not a gram overweight, I can run half-marathons and everything, I am in good shape. But after 1,5 hours without break of smashing my body into the ball, it's taking its toll on the quality of my shots.




I should say, I usually don't play from further away, because my opponents thus far couldn't handle the speed and spin of my shots and the game usually would rarely develop that far. The H3N made my game more stable, I do fewer mistakes and so I rose in the rankings. But by no means do I have something against playing one or two steps back.

I absolutely should work on my physicality and technique above all. The blade is not meant to be a fix for that (see below)



I knew I couldn't get that one past you. I am aware that those run a bit counter to eachother.

Honestly I should've clarified from the start that the speed upgrade, which if any, I don't want a too drastic one. It would just screw up my entire game. The main aspect though is the subtle change of my style, for which just a slight speed increase could be beneficial. I thought if I threw it in, there might be a holy grail of a blade suggestion. That's my mistake!
With my previous MX-S tensor, while having a similar looping style, I could also get away with a lot of smash-slapping (if that words tells you anything). The hardish 7-ply worked great in that regard. Extremely stable, perfectly suited.


The blade switch is not really motivated to compensate for something that I might fix by training. It's just time for a new blade and I thought I might fit it more to how my game has changed lately. I straight smash/drive a lot less, the loop percentage of my shots has increased.


Of course it's always great to have something to look at. I just find it very awkward to film, since where I train, I can't do that without filming others as well. Then I would have to ask my training partner(s) and find a good angle, which will also prove to be difficult.
How should I put it? My ranking isn't representative of my ability since I started anew a few months ago after over a decade of being absent from the sport. The ranking is taking leaps upwards every time there's ranked matches (which is rare in Finland). When I started out of course I was losing against everybody. Now, on a bad day I lose against a 1400-1450 ranked guy maybe because of some weird playing style, because I do “the Dima“ and don't want to adjust my game and try to go head first through a wall. On a great day, I can take sets off 1950-2000 ranking if the style fits me and the guy doesn't show his A-game. I don't know how finnish TTR translate to others. I would describe myself as a good intermediate player who lacks consistency.
My two major problems are: I have trouble predicting how and where the ball would go. This just needs experience, experience, experience. Secondly, I need to be constantly moving more than I do now. As the training progresses, I grow lazy. [emoji14] Both cause me to sometimes not be in good position for my shots. Training, training, traning!


So far I've been having romantic thoughts mostly about the Virtuoso+. I might add, even a slightly slower blade would be a fine choice. I don't want a rocket. The most important part is the feel anyway (which nullifies the whole idea of asking in an online forum lol). Hence also the description of my playstyle so you guys can imagine what it looks like which your experience of having seen a lot.

Ok, I give in.

Balance between speed and spin is what manufacturer continuously trying to achieve, so, it and age old problem.

There is a class of blades that made as compromise between looping and driving. It fast, medium flex, and medium hardness. You should borrow your teammate blades if they have them.

Note that, I am agree with Der Echte, Beast Mode to Your own blade should work better. Lead tapes as in golf usable for making temporary weight shift. Use them behind grip tape [emoji6]

Andro Treiber Z
JOOLA MC1
Xiom Ignito
Butterfly Zhang Jike Super ZLC
Donic Waldner Legend Carbon

Galaxy Mercury Y-15
Galaxy EC-14
Galaxy T-8
DHS Power-G PG9
Butterfly VSG-2000
Yasaka X1

Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk

 

[sanavasaraja]

Thanks a lot for the kind suggestions!

What about Innerforce? It sounds like a good choice, but don't know about the speed comparison (I haven't tried the Samsonov Force Pro Black).

Innerforce is something that I've definitely contemplated. It might be too much. But that's exactly my problem -- you can at least somewhat read up on whether a blade is hard and flexible, on size and weight, but reliable information about which one is how much faster than the other, that is hard to come by! As far as I understand, the FPBE is already one of the faster all-wood blade since it also has some thickness to it.


Let me quickly stress once again, the blade doesn't NEED to be faster, and if it is, it shouldn't be much. It seems to really depend on what I am playing against. Against some players, even at midrange I can create thunderous rockets. Against others, I struggle to create enough pace to be threatening, which usually means that I don't create straight winners but the point will just drag on and on. I think it has to do with not being able to spin the ball properly and thus the blade seems slow (chinese rubber and all). Which leads us to the argument of just improving my footwork...

[!] The speed upgrade would just be a bonus. What I am primarily looking for is a blade that is geared more towards looping than my old FPBE (I rarely drive! Only sometimes when I am playing directly at the table!) while not missing out too much on speed. Acceleration through spin! I think that's a better way to put it. Hindsight is a beautiful thing.

Now I just need a word from "Mr. OSP" Carl

 

[sanavasaraja]

I think what would help me greatly is if people could list a couple of blades that have about the same speed level as my FPBE, plus or minus a certain margin. I could then go from there and chose one that has (seemingly) fitting characteristics.
Can anyone put the FPBE in relation to other blades?