ITTF Trailing "No-Let" Rule

[Amayzde]

Players will show ITTF that this rule will destroy the game by hitting top of the net and get a direct point form the serve almost every time. So i think this rule will not be forced by ITTF.

Also i think TT needs another ITTF president. Shara is just destroying the game.

He is trying to make the game better for the audience by trying to make the sets last shortet but what hes not realizing is that he is just ruining the game for us now.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I wouldn't call it naive, rather opportunistic I would say

You're right about the game going to service tricks in stead of rally's. However, I would guess that this rule will not be forces through by the ITTF, and if they try, it will be very hard for them to get all players in on it. After all the players are the ones making the game and not the people from behind their desk. So we will see how it works out.

Is that what you think?
Then you indeed naive.

You think the players are happy about 2 man rule at OG? you think players are happy about reducing for World champs?
You think the players are happy about all the changes?

 

[Alborz]

Is that what you think?
Then you indeed naive.

You think the players are happy about 2 man rule at OG? you think players are happy about reducing for World champs?
You think the players are happy about all the changes?

They are surely not happy about that rules but ITTF is happy about them. But after sometime ITTF will realize that "no let" rule totally destroys TT and they will remove it.

At least i think so.

 

[TTFrenzy]

Guys relax it was just a test event. It seriously seems stupid even a test like that but I dont think we will eventually see the "no let" rule in the future. This rule gives the server an immense advantage and players will start serving certain serves only with certain trajectory and placement. Case 1 is that the ball doesnt let, so everything is ok, case 2 is the ball clips the net and the server has unfair advantage.

It is not difficult to practice let serves in my opinion, imagine what will happen when you get the feeling of it and start serving serves, where the ball clips the net at its descending phase...pure ownage. It will become a game of tricksters and clowns not skillful and strategic athletes

 

[elrigo99]

Players will show ITTF that this rule will destroy the game by hitting top of the net and get a direct point form the serve almost every time

Actually it's pretty difficult to get a direct point from a net service, plus it's very risky to aim to a service like one in the video above. (Although I still think this rule came out of the butt)

Does anybody know what the U21 players' reaction was?

 

[Amayzde]

Actually it's pretty difficult to get a direct point from a net service, plus it's very risky to aim to a service like one in the video above. (Although I still think this rule came out of the butt)

Does anybody know what the U21 players' reaction was?

I dont know, havent seen any let serves.

But maybe and just 'maybe' its a good rule. If they start playing with the 2 coloured balls like in the chinese super league the server has less of an advantage with these so getting s straight point with a ball that hits the top of the net some times isnt that bad. Also only a few of these let serves fall down just after the net. As long as pro players dont start practicing to hit the net all the time and make the serve bounce just after the net its a fair rule.

 

[alfas]

Well, IMO thisCOULD be a good rule...
Arguments suchas pro players would start practicing let-services and therefore abuse this“questionable” rule are ... “intellect is not my strongest side”.
Nobody from all populationof tt players (pro players included), DO NOT possess such super power (as givenfrom some forum members here) and it could not be learned/mastered by practicing.
Hardly anyone (regular/prott players) with common sense - off course, would be risking with such let-servein an official game, even at the beginning of the game itself, when psychologyis rising the pressure and the player is already under stress but now multipliedbecause he must be 100% accurate (anything less than 100% is a failure, right!!??).
As a contra argument,I am asking:
1. What stops now, such“golden touch wrist” players, (under current ittf rules) to aim their servicesat the edge of the table (backhand, forehand or bottom) and score direct pointas well???
2. Why nobody practiceplaying shots (or serves) with the edge of their blade.
3. Why nobody isabusing the existing rule of - not intentional double play (service or duringthe rally).
Lots of possibilitiesfor direct points - golden touch wrist players ONLY!
Common…really???
Why any playerwith elemental table tennis educational background, would use such stressful andextremely hazardous let-serves? Unless, absolutely agonized (lost match alreadyor huge difference in playing levels…)
To sum up, Iwould compare this rule with “not intentional double play rule”, previously itwas - pain in the a*s, (was it double play or not – nightmare, especially with trainingmatches…), but now nobody care if it was, because the rule says “if notintentional – accidental double play - the game continue”.
NO frustration ifdouble played or at least lowered a lot!!!
If the samebenefit comes with no-let rule regarding “lets in general” (we should try it first)then I’ll have no problem to accept it.
As a matter offact I will start to practice this rule starting from today (on my training matches,common…), as a therapy (JJJ) from frustrating lets that happened too often and tomany during the game (after the service), so who knows - what is this good for?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Well, IMO thisCOULD be a good rule...
Arguments suchas pro players would start practicing let-services and therefore abuse this“questionable” rule are ... “intellect is not my strongest side”.
Nobody from all populationof tt players (pro players included), DO NOT possess such super power (as givenfrom some forum members here) and it could not be learned/mastered by practicing.
Hardly anyone (regular/prott players) with common sense - off course, would be risking with such let-servein an official game, even at the beginning of the game itself, when psychologyis rising the pressure and the player is already under stress but now multipliedbecause he must be 100% accurate (anything less than 100% is a failure, right!!??).

Tuesday night session with my students
Roughly served around 10~15
Over 5 clip net and landed with impossible returns. I did both underspin only, and strong side spin (down the line serve but after clipping the net the ball bounces and ended on right net post)
About 3 was fault service, and the rest went over as normal serves

I last trained serving around 10 years + ago, which was 1 hours a day, 7 days a week, for a long as I can remember. I don't really play much nowadays.
I used to be able to do L and reverse L - under/side spin. Basically down the line, or cross court (then down the line) and before the ball gets off the table, the ball can side spin to the other side of the table, and the ball coming off the side of the table.
Its not impossible!

IMO, spend less time talking/thinking/typing, and spend more time on the table, maybe you can get to do what I did.
I'm not even a professional or active player for that matter.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

And talking about golden wrist
My cpen backhand serve on fh side of the table - going down the line, I can spin the ball outside the table and when coming back in, to land on the white line
Many times I can clip the edge directly - just ask my students on how often it occurs.

I'm sure if I train to aim for edge more than white line, this can work too
Might end up like a circus trickster clown, similar to the ITTF trickshot - its like a circus and no longer table tennis

 

[TTFrenzy]

Well, IMO thisCOULD be a good rule...
Arguments suchas pro players would start practicing let-services and therefore abuse this“questionable” rule are ... “intellect is not my strongest side”.
Nobody from all populationof tt players (pro players included), DO NOT possess such super power (as givenfrom some forum members here) and it could not be learned/mastered by practicing.
Hardly anyone (regular/prott players) with common sense - off course, would be risking with such let-servein an official game, even at the beginning of the game itself, when psychologyis rising the pressure and the player is already under stress but now multipliedbecause he must be 100% accurate (anything less than 100% is a failure, right!!??).
As a contra argument,I am asking:
1. What stops now, such“golden touch wrist” players, (under current ittf rules) to aim their servicesat the edge of the table (backhand, forehand or bottom) and score direct pointas well???
2. Why nobody practiceplaying shots (or serves) with the edge of their blade.
3. Why nobody isabusing the existing rule of - not intentional double play (service or duringthe rally).

Aiming service at the edge is not a safe option and with the modern play if u fail to edge the ball,u will get attacked most likely in pro level or the ball will get out. With the no let rule if u learn to serve and clip the net at the downphase of the ball then you have 100% safe options.

Case 1 : If the ball does not clip the serve, everything is ok you continue play

Case 2 : If the ball clips the net you have an advantage.

Case 3 The ball fails to pass over the net. That is irrelevant and its not affected by the existence of the let rule or not. You must learn to serve properly

Did all the serve practice on let serve was worth it?Yes because it is 100% safe unless you cant serve, at net height. If you cant serve at net height the problem is your serving technique not the existence or not of the let rule

So either way the server has advantage, minimum if the ball does not clip the net, and maximum but unfair if it does.

Now lets say a pro player tries to serve edge balls. First of all you dont have the luxury of making a "mistake"

Case 1 The ball edges you win the point. But how many times you will succeed on doing so?

Case 2 The ball goes out big time. You lose the point. You must learn to serve with a 2nd bounce near the endline and probably you are not a pro on that aspect

Case 3 The ball goes slightly out the edge of the table . You lose the point. Did all the practice on edge serves worth it?Dont think so

Case 4 The ball bounces normally. Most of the times you will get attacked and most of the times you will lose the point in pro level

Compare the let rule service and edge service and you can see that let service practice is much safer.

Are you really serious about the non intentional double play?

Have you ever tried to force a double play and make it look that you havent done it on purpose?

Go directly to 2:12 of this video. You see how jun mizutani can hit two serves with accuracy landing on the same spot of the table but having totally different spin???And you are actually telling me that he cant do the same but this time his target will be to clip the net?

If you start practicing "let" serves with a proper technique and putting some marks on the table (some spots that suit your serving action for example and feel easy and natural to target) these are the following events that will take place. Evolution in every aspect of life is about trial and error. If the 1st method didnt have the results we needed we go on with the 2nd the 3rd untill we find a perfect one.

Lets say your target is to make let serves.In order to evolve to achieve your target you must learn from your mistakes in order to evaluate your effort and make it better

So some balls will clip the net, some balls will pass over and some balls will clip the net

Lets say at day1 you serve 200 balls. For a noob/normal/amateur player lets say 20% goes to the net 75 % passes over the net and 5% clips the net.

Now lets say you take one month practice serving 200 balls a day.After such huge practice, one can easily have 90% passing over the net 5% straight to the net and again 5 % clip the net.

If you can recognize WHY the ball passes over the net at net height, what caused the net serve and what caused the let serve then you can start experimenting to make let serves. Imagine the percentages in the long run, tjhis time with a PRO player who trains 3x the time of a normal player AND with personal professional coach at his aid.

And watch this also

. You still believe it is impossible?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

TTFrenzy
Yep, you are right, it is easier to succeed clipping net/normal serve than going for edges.

 

[TTFrenzy]

TTFrenzy
Yep, you are right, it is easier to succeed clipping net/normal serve than going for edges.

I believe even edge serves are possible but much more difficult and not worth the training. Just imagine how frustrated a player will be if he manage to do 8/10 edges serves on a daily basis and then in matchplay the ball passes slightly over the edge

Personally I would be like "You f***** lucky s** of a b**** , you dont know how lucky you are". And then I would be totally, "man the whole edge service practice is total bullshit"

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I believe even edge serves are possible but much more difficult and not worth the training. Just imagine how frustrated a player will be if he manage to do 8/10 edges serves on a daily basis and then in matchplay the ball passes slightly over the edge

Personally I would be like "You f***** lucky s** of a b**** , you dont know how lucky you are". And then I would be totally, "man the whole edge service practice is total bullshit"

Same applies for clipping net and winning point instanctly
Its going to change table tennis.

And from a side note, it can even increase chance of injury - if player is going to try and save the point
Crazy I tell you

 

[Rajah*]

Tuesday night session with my students
Roughly served around 10~15
Over 5 clip net and landed with impossible returns. I did both underspin only, and strong side spin (down the line serve but after clipping the net the ball bounces and ended on right net post)
About 3 was fault service, and the rest went over as normal serves

I last trained serving around 10 years + ago, which was 1 hours a day, 7 days a week, for a long as I can remember. I don't really play much nowadays.
I used to be able to do L and reverse L - under/side spin. Basically down the line, or cross court (then down the line) and before the ball gets off the table, the ball can side spin to the other side of the table, and the ball coming off the side of the table.
Its not impossible!

IMO, spend less time talking/thinking/typing, and spend more time on the table, maybe you can get to do what I did.
I'm not even a professional or active player for that matter.

Whoaaaaa i like this post Tony.. +1


Sent from my HTC One M8 using Tapatalk

 

[Rajah*]

Come on guys think deep inside your pocket.. dont be sooo theoretical and bookish. even us retired from competition level who focuses on teaching nowadays can do that serve over and over again.. you wont see any rallies anymore but a trickshot circus mastery. Its just a matter of time.

And yes i agree clipping the net is very easy than with the edge.

Sent from my HTC One M8 using Tapatalk

 

[alfas]

Ok, let’sclarify some issues.
Training /practicesessions (training games as well) and official games (competition) are twodifferent worlds!!!
I really donot have any doubts in success rate of Tony’s practicing let-serves during the NIGHTSESSION and his capability of doing L and reverse L - under/side spin serves nowand in the past as well.
In addition,most of the pro players are capable to do all letters from alphabets normal/reverse–all types of spin/no-spin serves (not just L) and when in mood they do number servesas well, starting from 1 to 100 (Arabicand Roman numerals - as requested).
What ismore, some of the ex-tt players (like Pansky and Orlowsky) are capable to play:with frying pan (18:14), with hammer (15:45), with his foot / shoe (17:39)...pick one or continue the line, while watching the video…

.
Yes, I knowthat some of us are more skillful than the others and very few of them arealmost like magicians (and yes, magic formula is hard training - practicing,practicing and more practicing, who care for natural talent…Waldner,Karakasevic, Samsonov…true workaholic examples ...), so let’s stop talkingabout how somebody is/was good during the practice sessions (there are milexamples) or how good he will be if practicing enough (I totally agree!!!).
The realquestion is: ta-da…(now comes the 1 mil$ question), why no one form all those top players in an official match (NOTtraining / exhibition ) do not use or even better - abuse severely its owntalent (skill earned by practicing – or simply gifted) to score easy points bycatching edges from serves (skill already established, fine-tuned, confirmed)??? They do with ease allthose letters and number serves during the training sessions, remember?
Pro playersare already (meaning NOW, TODAY) on so high level that we (Tony included) will bein our lives ever, no matter how long we were, are or will be practicing? Theydo not need to practice more for let serves in order to abuse possible coming ofno-let rule as that level is already achieved by them! And mysteriously nobody hasabused: table edge serves, blade edge serves, double play serves - up to now (yes,it happens occasionally, but occasionally not intentional - big difference!!!).So, why is that so?
Hmm, I amsure it is because they are quite noble persons, drink tea at 5 o clock pm, anddo not want to destroy our little but favorite game, all of them - noexclusions, even though they can… or the reason is maybe possible lack of sleepafterward, it must be against their values, possible several damage of their clearconscience? Hmm, all justified fears, I could not agree more.
Seriously, 35+ages old, and still believe in Santa Claus???
Having saidthat edge serve is much more difficult to be done, comparing to no-let serve is…hmmm..Childish?
For most ofus “mortals” both serves are extremely difficult even to repeat 2 or 3 times outof 10, (training session), but for those ones who already achieved golden wristlevel (no matter pro/gifted/long enough practicing – Tony included), making allalphabet/numeral serves (Toni – excluded), is absolutely…khm,khm.. “Childish” to say, thatlet-serve is a joke for me but edge serve is far more difficult even for me andno practice could help as for let serve???… C’mon golden wrist for let serveonly???
IMO difficultybetween those two serve is about the same/identical, and here is why:
1. Tip the net/edge of table = directpoint (or in rear case if somehow returned huge problems for the server).
2. Into the net/out of table = lostpoint.
3. Little above the net (normal shortserve)/close to the edge = nothing special or in nobodies favor, point goes on.
So, itseems that for both serves rate of success is mathematically 33% (or less ifsomehow receiver succeed to return the ball) 1 out of 3 scenarios, and this,and ONLY this is the reason why no one from pro players is willing to “demonstrate”us/his opponents his obvious golden wrist abilities (a must have in order tobe in top 100) but now in a competition match. This is the key factor how to distinct“right-minded” players from those ones “with balls”.
Only having100% serve accuracy (IN OFFICIAL COMPETITION MATCH) is valid argument forpracticing let, edge, double play serve, anything less is not good enough (déjàvu or..?).
Even havingclose to 100% on trainingsession it is not good enough to risk on an official match, because nobody (I repeat- NOBODY) play the same as on training match (if over 70% he is phhh…).
IMO nothing will be dramatically changed ifno-let serve rule would be accepted.
Yes, occasionallysuch “unfair” situations will happen (but no more than now) and yes, this goesin favor of the server.
However, touchingthe tip of the net is something that happens 10 times more frequently in the rally- after the serve (sometime 2-3 times in a single point).
I would liketo point out, that being relaxed from the beginning of the point (regarding thelet/pardon issue) players will be set on auto pilot and now, not burdened shellPLAY no matter what, instead of arguingwith everybody and mostly with themselves, just to prove everybody how unluckythey are.
To sum up, if there is a even small window to reducefrustrations regarding the “pardons” that happen to many and too often - eventhough sacrificing some serves, but on the other side as a benefit we are improvingour game in general regarding the pardons then … it might deserve a trialperiod.

 

[TTFrenzy]

Alfas read my post again, u seem like u gave no attention to it or didnt understand anything from what Tony and I have posted. You are basically posting the same post as before...

You claim that "nobody plays the same in training and in matchplay"

Check the Waldner story http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/f...r-and-Persson-from-a-person-who-works-in-ITTF

Other examples of relaxed players are Ma lin Zhang Jike Wang Hao, they have played with their opponents like its leisure time.

You dont understand that the game will be ruined, the luck factor implemented is just too big. The hilarious thing is that this rule wont offer anything special to the sport in terms of spectacle

 

[elrigo99]

Apparently we have a new president now! From ITTF's Facebook page we've got this article!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

This is a clear example of intrepretation by people who have different understanding of table tennis
It's just like me trying to get a total noob to spin the ball. Its like believing in Santa Claus


Okay, after able to read the comment above in my email browser and filtering all those garbage out, there is a valid question.
The so called million dollar question.
But then again, there seems to be some words of insult and name calling in this long essay.

All I can say is, if you don't know how to do it, you will never know what I am talking about.
No matter what excuses, or name calling or fantasies you may have, the let service rule is one of the lease worries in table tennis today and lots of rule changes has been enforce to taken away advantages of service. I see this as given the advantage back to the server - a clear contridction of the previous service rule changes.

Now if you can, try and conduct a civil debate

 

[alfas]

@TT Frezny
I have read carefully yours and Tony post, but during the weekend, I didnot have time to answer immediately and sorry for that.
On the other side, you have noticed perfectly that it is basically thesame post.
I thought I was misunderstood for some issues and try to clarify the samethrough arguments.
We have different opinions about same issue, so what?
I am not sure as you how relaxed players are Ma lin Zhang Jike Wang Hao…but I would like to know, how no-let rule would destroy the game if such weapon(edge serve) they already have in their arsenal, under existing rule and nobodywas/is abusing it (even though they are relaxed)? Just do not answer that edgeserves is much more difficult, please…
You said that “the luck factor implemented is just too big” totally agree,exactly my point – no serious player would like to gamble with it (read – doinglet-serve).
I really cannot imagine that couch Guoliang (or any other) would adviceany of his players (for example Zhang Jike) on time out with this words “now gowith 4 let-serve consequently as you are relaxed and were good on training lastmonth” – can you?
But in the end I said trial period, if you are not satisfied withsomething during the trial period you are not obliged to buy it. Everything wecan do now is to discus, but if we try… somebody might be surprised, might beme…
@ Tony,
I never compared my serving ability with yours and you do not need tospell me anything so I will eventually understand how good you are, in the endmaybe your tt level is far above mine.
In this case, only important is that pro players - the best on planet currently,are at least couple of levels above yours (hope we agree upon this?)… And yet,they do not abuse edge serve, even though they can… identical weapon as a letserve!!!
Regarding the “lots of rule changes has been enforce to taken awayadvantages of service” I cannot discus unblock, you must be more specific, andbelieve me I am not fan of changing the rules at any cost – only choosing thegood one (IMO off course..)