My old practice session videos. Feedback appreciated.

[Siva Schopenhauer]

I would not say that Friendship are a downgrade.
Those are very good rubbers and perfect for learning, althought one could argue that they are a tad too hard. However i like hard rubbers as they require you to do correct strokes.

However i like hard rubbers as they require you to do correct strokes

Me too felt the same. At the end of the play yesteday, I had severe pain in my shoulder socket after doing so many bad chiquitas

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

While tacky rubbers are not good rubbers, IMO, at least, they reveal the limitations of your looping game more seriously than European rubbers do. So this will be fun to see.

So this will be fun to see

Probably for you not for me

 

[Boogar]

Me too felt the same. At the end of the play yesteday, I had severe pain in my shoulder socket after doing so many bad chiquitas

How do you use the shoulder in a chiquita? :O

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

So, here is my game play from yesterday. I played with my friends over there who enjoy the normal part of playing the game. As a result, I played at 10% of what I can. Here, you go, I am exposing the imposter

 

[NextLevel]

How do you use the shoulder in a chiquita? :O

By trying to copy good players without understanding what they are doing.

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

How do you use the shoulder in a chiquita? :O

During your chiquita, elbow is hinged which is inturn hinged on shoulder?

 

[Boogar]

During your chiquita, elbow is hinged which is inturn hinged on shoulder?

The flip as i know it is played with mostly wrist and some underarm movement.

The flip shown of Fan Zhendong in highlight compilations are mostly rips, in wich he uses a very big motion to get as much power as posible and sometimes even uses some shoulder turning. But even then its not the shoulder itself that is moving, its more the hips.

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

The flip as i know it is played with mostly wrist and some underarm movement.

The flip shown of Fan Zhendong in highlight compilations are mostly rips, in wich he uses a very big motion to get as much power as posible and sometimes even uses some shoulder turning. But even then its not the shoulder itself that is moving, its more the hips.

Check at4:33 It may give some picture of what I am doing. Probably they are rips. Because of new rubber, I didnt get enough brush, so I have to compensate it with power from my entire arm. So, my shoulder joint got stressed. Usually, I don't experience pain in those rips before while using the old rubber.

 

[Boogar]

Check at4:33 It may give some picture of what I am doing. Probably they are rips. Because of new rubber, I didnt get enough brush, so I have to compensate it with power from my entire arm. So, my shoulder joint got stressed. Usually, I don't experience pain in those rips before while using the old rubber.

Well if you dont use your underarm at all, no wonder you are using the shoulder.
Pain is almost always a good tell if you are doing something wrong and thats not the rubbers fault.

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

Well if you dont use your underarm at all, no wonder you are using the shoulder.
Pain is almost always a good tell if you are doing something wrong and thats not the rubbers fault.

I couldnt understand the underarm part. Can u elaborate little bit?

 

[Boogar]

I couldnt understand the underarm part. Can u elaborate little bit?

I will try
In almost all of strokes the movement of the under arm is key, meaning a circular movement of the under arm around the elbow if that makes sense.
Especially in backhand shots as you have limited options to combine bio mechanics in comparison to the forehand.

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

I will try
In almost all of strokes the movement of the under arm is key, meaning a circular movement of the under arm around the elbow if that makes sense.
Especially in backhand shots as you have limited options to combine bio mechanics in comparison to the forehand.

Ah now I get it, you mean the lower region around the elbow. Yeah, the stroke has some mistakes because of that deficieny. But, naturally there was no grip in the rubber.

Just few days ago, Carl shared a video of his explaining this. I am used to moving my upper arm to transfer energy to the lower arm. So, I have to rebuild those movements again. Takes some time na

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

@Carl @Everybody How was the match? Did you observe that my arm doesnt go below the shoulder for any of those forehand? I would like to know what do you think generally on some aspects of the play.

I ll try to play against the polish guy in a match next time and get it recorded.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Boogar, this made me laugh. In English the term "underarm" refers to the hollow between the upper arm and the torso. The part that starts growing hair when you reach puberty, the part where you apply underarm deodorant. It is also referred to as "the armpit"!

The part of the arm you are referring to is called the FOREARM. [emoji2]

All good.

But I will show the video Siva is talking about.

The pivot from the elbow that causes the forearm to rotate in that motion IS IN FACT Shoulder Rotation.

The other movement in the video which shows what you shouldn't do IS CALLED Shoulder Extension.

So the rotation does in fact come from the shoulder. But that rotation should not stress your shoulder.

And, the simple FACT OF THE MATTER IS, the shoulder pain Siva is experiencing is coming from the bad mechanics we have been talking about in his strokes!!!!

That is the big difference between efficiency and inefficiency, functional movements and dysfunctional movements.

Why did Siva not feel the shoulder problems before with the bad mechanics he clearly has? The old rubbers, with their springy sponge, did so much more of the work of the strokes for him, that he didn't notice the effects of those dysfunctional movements on his shoulder joints.

With tacky rubber, your technique must be excellent for you to be able to utilize their full potential; this is because the sponge does not help you unless you have enough impact and your technique is very CLEAN.

And Siva's strokes are fundamentally flawed despite his ability to play at a decent level. He has been able to have bad strokes and get decent shots for HIS level. But his strokes are not what causes him to be his level. In fact, I would put money on it, that, guys who he plays 50/50 with, guys who he plays and wins half the time, and loses half the time, after they get past his serves, they are much better than him at most other aspects of the game. But, Siva's serves ARE darn good. So that is okay.

BTW: I am not saying that there is anything wrong with Siva when I say his strokes are fundamentally flawed. Siva is a self taught player. And he has learned many things by watching players on Internet videos, misunderstanding what he is seeing and not realizing he is doing something different than what he thinks he is doing.

But he is quite capable of fixing those fundamental flaws which are actually holding him back. When he fixes them, his overall technique and his level of play will skyrocket. Because he still has something special. And that is touch.

But Siva's upper arm moves in SHOULDER EXTENSION way too much in both FH and BH strokes for the safety of his shoulder joint. And that motion on his FH where the elbow raises higher than the racket, like what Samason Dubina imitates as NOT WHAT YOU WANT, in the video below, that is downright BAD--like DANGER Will Robinson--to the health of your shoulder joint. And I actually have a feeling that that motion on his FH actually contributed to the pain Siva began to feel when he was making his BH shots.

I hope this helps Siva.

Watch this video of Samson Dubina over and over again and try and duplicate that kind of FH. Try and make the BH come from the pivot on the elbow too. When you can isolate the movement of the forearm and make it so that the upper arm does not move forward and back during your stroke, then you can let the upper arm start moving some. Then at some point doing a fuller arm movement on big strokes will be okay. But that won't happen until you can pivot from the elbow on both FH and BH strokes because there is too much going on with your strokes that needs changing as of now. And now you know that those strokes are hazardous to the health of your shoulder.

At 1:50 in following video, Ariel Hsing is strapping her arm to her side. The interviewer asks: "What's that?" Her answer is: "Forehand Fixing Machine!!!!!!" See if you can figure out why.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

Boogar, this made me laugh. In English the term "underarm" refers to the hollow between the upper arm and the torso. The part that starts growing hair when you reach puberty, the part where you apply underarm deodorant. It is also referred to as "the armpit"!

The part of the arm you are referring to is called the FOREARM. [emoji2]

All good.

But I will show the video Siva is talking about.

The pivot from the elbow that causes the forearm to rotate in that motion IS IN FACT Shoulder Rotation.

The other movement in the video which shows what you shouldn't do IS CALLED Shoulder Extension.

So the rotation does in fact come from the shoulder. But that rotation should not stress your shoulder.

And, the simple FACT OF THE MATTER IS, the shoulder pain Siva is experiencing is coming from the bad mechanics we have been talking about in his strokes!!!!

That is the big difference between efficiency and inefficiency, functional movements and dysfunctional movements.

Why did Siva not feel the shoulder problems before with the bad mechanics he clearly has? The old rubbers, with their springy sponge, did so much more of the work of the strokes for him, that he didn't notice the effects of those dysfunctional movements on his shoulder joints.

With tacky rubber, your technique must be excellent for you to be able to utilize their full potential; this is because the sponge does not help you unless you have enough impact and your technique is very CLEAN.

And Siva's strokes are fundamentally flawed despite his ability to play at a decent level. He has been able to have bad strokes and get decent shots for HIS level. But his strokes are not what causes him to be his level. In fact, I would put money on it, that, guys who he plays 50/50 with, guys who he plays and wins half the time, and loses half the time, after they get past his serves, they are much better than him at most other aspects of the game. But, Siva's serves ARE darn good. So that is okay.

BTW: I am not saying that there is anything wrong with Siva when I say his strokes are fundamentally flawed. Siva is a self taught player. And he has learned many things by watching players on Internet videos, misunderstanding what he is seeing and not realizing he is doing something different than what he thinks he is doing.

But he is quite capable of fixing those fundamental flaws which are actually holding him back. When he fixes them, his overall technique and his level of play will skyrocket. Because he still has something special. And that is touch.

But Siva's upper arm moves in SHOULDER EXTENSION way too much in both FH and BH strokes for the safety of his shoulder joint. And that motion on his FH where the elbow raises higher than the racket, like what Samason Dubina imitates as NOT WHAT YOU WANT, in the video below, that is downright BAD--like DANGER Will Robinson--to the health of your shoulder joint. And I actually have a feeling that that motion on his FH actually contributed to the pain Siva began to feel when he was making his BH shots.

I hope this helps Siva.

Watch this video of Samson Dubina over and over again and try and duplicate that kind of FH. Try and make the BH come from the pivot on the elbow too. When you can isolate the movement of the forearm and make it so that the upper arm does not move forward and back during your stroke, then you can let the upper arm start moving some. Then at some point doing a fuller arm movement on big strokes will be okay. But that won't happen until you can pivot from the elbow on both FH and BH strokes because there is too much going on with your strokes that needs changing as of now. And now you know that those strokes are hazardous to the health of your shoulder.

At 1:50 in following video, Ariel Hsing is strapping her arm to her side. The interviewer asks: "What's that?" Her answer is: "Forehand Fixing Machine!!!!!!" See if you can figure out why.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

i ll come back to this post again. But, I have few questions regarding Forehand related to video. if you go to 0:43 and 1:44. Those were some miserable fails.

I am the no holding back guns style. So, everyball returned has to be attacked though it can be pushed, chopped or blocked.

At 0:44, It seems I am already in the right position to attack the ball by swiftly moving. There does'nt seem to lot of upperarm movement. One thing i could observe nowadays after all these feedbacks is that my body starts to move laterally upward along with my arm while swinging my forearm before the attack. Is that the reason why I am failing in this case. Also, It seems that I start the stroke in the failry right place.

Could You explain what went wrong in both the strokes.

Thanks in advancs

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

Boogar, this made me laugh. In English the term "underarm" refers to the hollow between the upper arm and the torso. The part that starts growing hair when you reach puberty, the part where you apply underarm deodorant. It is also referred to as "the armpit"!

The part of the arm you are referring to is called the FOREARM. [emoji2]

All good.

But I will show the video Siva is talking about.

The pivot from the elbow that causes the forearm to rotate in that motion IS IN FACT Shoulder Rotation.

The other movement in the video which shows what you shouldn't do IS CALLED Shoulder Extension.

So the rotation does in fact come from the shoulder. But that rotation should not stress your shoulder.

And, the simple FACT OF THE MATTER IS, the shoulder pain Siva is experiencing is coming from the bad mechanics we have been talking about in his strokes!!!!

That is the big difference between efficiency and inefficiency, functional movements and dysfunctional movements.

Why did Siva not feel the shoulder problems before with the bad mechanics he clearly has? The old rubbers, with their springy sponge, did so much more of the work of the strokes for him, that he didn't notice the effects of those dysfunctional movements on his shoulder joints.

With tacky rubber, your technique must be excellent for you to be able to utilize their full potential; this is because the sponge does not help you unless you have enough impact and your technique is very CLEAN.

And Siva's strokes are fundamentally flawed despite his ability to play at a decent level. He has been able to have bad strokes and get decent shots for HIS level. But his strokes are not what causes him to be his level. In fact, I would put money on it, that, guys who he plays 50/50 with, guys who he plays and wins half the time, and loses half the time, after they get past his serves, they are much better than him at most other aspects of the game. But, Siva's serves ARE darn good. So that is okay.

BTW: I am not saying that there is anything wrong with Siva when I say his strokes are fundamentally flawed. Siva is a self taught player. And he has learned many things by watching players on Internet videos, misunderstanding what he is seeing and not realizing he is doing something different than what he thinks he is doing.

But he is quite capable of fixing those fundamental flaws which are actually holding him back. When he fixes them, his overall technique and his level of play will skyrocket. Because he still has something special. And that is touch.

But Siva's upper arm moves in SHOULDER EXTENSION way too much in both FH and BH strokes for the safety of his shoulder joint. And that motion on his FH where the elbow raises higher than the racket, like what Samason Dubina imitates as NOT WHAT YOU WANT, in the video below, that is downright BAD--like DANGER Will Robinson--to the health of your shoulder joint. And I actually have a feeling that that motion on his FH actually contributed to the pain Siva began to feel when he was making his BH shots.

I hope this helps Siva.

Watch this video of Samson Dubina over and over again and try and duplicate that kind of FH. Try and make the BH come from the pivot on the elbow too. When you can isolate the movement of the forearm and make it so that the upper arm does not move forward and back during your stroke, then you can let the upper arm start moving some. Then at some point doing a fuller arm movement on big strokes will be okay. But that won't happen until you can pivot from the elbow on both FH and BH strokes because there is too much going on with your strokes that needs changing as of now. And now you know that those strokes are hazardous to the health of your shoulder.

At 1:50 in following video, Ariel Hsing is strapping her arm to her side. The interviewer asks: "What's that?" Her answer is: "Forehand Fixing Machine!!!!!!" See if you can figure out why.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

'Shoulder Extension' was the missing part of the puzzle. It was indeed true that the socket pain was caused by relentless forehands that ****ed it up. I remember the scene one year ago, one of my club mates told that if I kept on doing those strokes too much, I would end up in hospital for shoulder injury. I laughed at him on his ignorance. I am laughing at myself for not perceiving his wisdom.

With some right guidance, I believe I'll end up soon with top class forehands. It took me some 2000 backspin serves, to identify Why I coundn't serve the Ghost spin. After serving the first ghost, I already forgot what I did the last 2000 times.
That they say as quantum shift is very much true in sports and business. It takes only once to be right and your set in that forever.

My own wisdom made me to choose tacky rubbers and now all those shabby movements will be exposed, there is no chance to shy away. I take this as a good opportunity to learn from experienced players in the community.

I would put money on it, that, guys who he plays 50/50 with, guys who he plays and wins half the time, and loses half the time, after they get past his serves, they are much better than him at most other aspects of the game

Suspicious. It would take some more footage evidences to prove that you chose the wrong odds

that motion on his FH where the elbow raises higher than the racket,

Did it actually raise in this video? where?

Try and make the BH come from the pivot on the elbow too. When you can isolate the movement of the forearm and make it so that the upper arm does not move forward and back during your stroke, then you can let the upper arm start moving some. Then at some point doing a fuller arm movement on big strokes will be okay. But that won't happen until you can pivot from the elbow on both FH and BH strokes because there is too much going on with your strokes that needs changing as of now. And now you know that those strokes are hazardous to the health of your shoulde

Usually, If I able to see that in my mind, it takes just one take like a veteran actor. But, in this case, am still not able to visualize my movement already for good. So, I ll keep trying as that is the only way to increase the odds. All the above said is genuinely true from my opinion too.

Ariel Hsing is strapping her arm to her side. The interviewer asks: "What's that?" Her answer is: "Forehand Fixing Machine!!!!!!" See if you can figure out why.

That is a nice set up. Can we buy somwhere such setups or should I Jugaad for that too

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Did it actually raise in this video? where?

The angle you chose to film from kind of hides your FH mechanics when your back is to the camera. The match is doubles. In the whole match you barely hit more than 10 FHs. If I only count the ones that land it may be fewer than 10. How many FHs are against topspin?

There is one in the first game where you move to the ball and swing and your shot goes WAY long. It is hard to see because your body is blocking your arm. But your elbow goes up and your racket does something funny that is hard to see.

I did not watch the whole match and observe in strict detail. When you are facing the camera things are easy to see. But in the two games where you are facing the camera, I only saw one FH where you just stick your racket out and block topspin. If there are other FHs vs topspin, I did not see them. But vs backspin you raise your racket up which means you do less of the movement from your elbow that is StrongBad for your shoulder.

But, you should see if you can get a coach to work with you on your strokes. In person, with a coach, you would get much more valuable info to help you change the mechanics of your FH.

By the way, most of the FHs you hit were when your partner served and his serve got pushed back. At the beginning your were also trying to attack serves with FH but you stopped fairly quickly when it wasn't working.

Anyway, the point is, there are very few places in the whole match, in the video, where your opponent hit a topspin shot, and you hit a FH topspin shot back.

But it is evident that the two guys on the other side can't read your serves.

Record a match with someone who at your level and let's see what happens what we can see.

And perhaps you should have a look at where NextLevel places the camera for filming his footage. You are using an angle that partially blocks the view.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

The angle you chose to film from kind of hides your FH mechanics when your back is to the camera. The match is doubles. In the whole match you barely hit more than 10 FHs. If I only count the ones that land it may be fewer than 10. How many FHs are against topspin?

There is one in the first game where you move to the ball and swing and your shot goes WAY long. It is hard to see because your body is blocking your arm. But your elbow goes up and your racket does something funny that is hard to see.

I did not watch the whole match and observe in strict detail. When you are facing the camera things are easy to see. But in the two games where you are facing the camera, I only saw one FH where you just stick your racket out and block topspin. If there are other FHs vs topspin, I did not see them. But vs backspin you raise your racket up which means you do less of the movement from your elbow that is StrongBad for your shoulder.

But, you should see if you can get a coach to work with you on your strokes. In person, with a coach, you would get much more valuable info to help you change the mechanics of your FH.

By the way, most of the FHs you hit were when your partner served and his serve got pushed back. At the beginning your were also trying to attack serves with FH but you stopped fairly quickly when it wasn't working.

Anyway, the point is, there are very few places in the whole match, in the video, where your opponent hit a topspin shot, and you hit a FH topspin shot back.

But it is evident that the two guys on the other side can't read your serves.

Record a match with someone who at your level and let's see what happens what we can see.

And perhaps you should have a look at where NextLevel places the camera for filming his footage. You are using an angle that partially blocks the view.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

But vs backspin you raise your racket up which means you do less of the movement from your elbow that is StrongBad for your shoulder.

I have to read it twice to get it. You mean that when I attack backspin serves, I am not using the swiveling motion around the elbow, was that the point?

At the beginning your were also trying to attack serves with FH but you stopped fairly quickly when it wasn't working.

Even with bad technique, my return rate was always quite high. I couldnt adapt to the new rubber from FH side. So, kind of forced to push those back.

But it is evident that the two guys on the other side can't read your serves.

Record a match with someone who at your level and let's see what happens what we can see.

That's true. But, it was the same with most guys when I played in a club. Now, I got much better by recording those videos. It would be the same against say 90 % of opponents. So, you can't blame me on that. It is kind of the Werner Schlager thing. His serve game is different from his other skill levels.

I ll try to play against the polish guy from the last time. No one is stronger than him around that dorm. I could go to some clubs for a single off trial sessions but the issue is it is difficult to shoot them. In Germany, privacy is really valued much more than life itself, LOL . If I did shoot and someone protested against it and gor shit crazy to complain in der POLIZEI, probably Im facked.

I ll look at the NL videos for better angle.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Your serves are good. That is a central part of your game. Nothing wrong with that. I am just saying they couldn't see when your serves were backspin or topspin. That is also why most opponents who at your level and are able to win matches from you 50% of the time would probably need to be better than you at most other aspects of the game. Because, your serves are much higher level than the rest of your technique.

I could be wrong. But that is okay. I am not stuck on that. I have seen your serves, I have seen your strokes. From a technical standpoint the serves are much higher level than the strokes. But game skills are hard to quantify. Sometimes things that are not good from a technical standpoint still win a lot of points until you get to a certain level.

And yes, you go up on FH strokes vs backspin because....well....ummmm....its backspin. And if you swung forward and down or if you swung up, then forward, then down, the ball wouldn't even get to the net.

That hitch is common for people who are self taught. Sometimes someone who plays tennis well and tries to learn real table tennis strokes on their own can end up with good table tennis stokes. But it is very common for people to try and make the stroke look circular so the racket goes up, then over the top, then a little down as though that arc in the stroke will get more spin but that forces the elbow up and makes the stroke less powerful while making it much more likely for you to hurt your shoulder.

Maybe you don't do that any more with your FH but it sure looked like it when I saw that one FH in the first game where you were attacking a topspin shot.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus