Soft Tensor Rubber in Rasanter series, Gewo brand and Victas brand

[JJ Ng]

Hi all,
It is time for me to ask a question. I am very familiar with the Tenergy fx series, Tibhar Revolution series, Nittaku Fastarc Series and Yasaka Rakza series. However, I have no clue about Gewo brand, Victas brand and the Rasanter series.

My backhand does really well with soft tensor rubber, Rakza 7 soft and C-1. And specifically at 2.0mm sponge thickness. These soft tensor rubbers are put on a moderately fast carbon blades. I find myself able to do backhand loop with these rubbers! I used to play a 5-ply all wood blade with G-1 in the back. So blocking and pushing with G-1 on a wood blade were wonderful. G-1 is very linear. Push is very spinny. And G-1 does not die.

Long story short, I recently pulled out an old C-1 from its original packaging and obviously C-1's max sponge is 2.0mm. Before, I was playing around with max sponge of Rakza 7 soft, Rakza X soft, G-1 and Rasanter 47. I just felt something was off. But when I put 2.00mm C-1 on, I could do backhand loops with ease now. Pretty consistent, either opening up against backspin or counter topspin. Max sponge of soft rubbers does not do that for me. And that's why I believe finding the right blade and rubber is important for you game. Then I slapped Rakza 7 soft 2.0mm onto another blade (before I was using max sponge for Rakza 7 soft and Rakza X soft and again something was off). It worked wonderfully as well!

So that's the background. I have no clue about the Rasanter series, Gewo brand and Victas brand. out of those three, can any anyone suggest a similar rubber to C-1 and Rakza 7 soft. And what sponge thickness?

For example, I have a green Rasanter 47. I feel that it is too hard. So I am wondering if Rasanter R42 or R37 would work great? For Gewo, I am looking at Gewo Nexxus EL Pro 43 or Gewo Nexxus EL Pro 38. With Victas brand, I am 100% clueless so someone please guide me through that.

By the way, I am not interested in hybrid. I know Victas has a few hybrid opening. And hybrid rubbers tend to have harder sponges anyway.

The EJ inside of me is getting itchy. There is nothing wrong with Rakza 7 soft and C-1 right now. If anyone can frankly tell me that R42, R37, EL Pro 43 or EL Pro 38 are a waste of money especially when I am doing well on Rakza 7 soft and C-1 so far, then please tell me so.

Thank you!

 

[damszelfly]

If you want to explore a few Victas rubbers, I'd suggest getting Ventus Stiff (formerly TSP Ventus Speed) - it is very similar to Nittaku Fastarc C-1, but while I have C-1 on all-wood blade, I have Ventus Stiff on an outer KLC blade (Yinhe T8S), so I cannot draw a good comparison, but I am certain, that the topsheets are very similar in physical properties. Ventus Limber (TSP Ventus Spin) could be also a good candidate - the sponge is softer (40° vs 45˚), but the rubber topsheet is similarly hefty. Both are availabe in 2.0 and max thicknesses.
Also there is a lineup with generally softer and more spin-insensitive topsheets (Victas 07 rubbers are meant for beginner/intermediate players), but maybe that would be out of consideration for you. Victas 07 Stiff can be relatively easy to bottom out, feels a bit softer than its indicated 45° sponge hardness. For some reason I cannot recall, that 07 Limber (40˚) would be worse in this regard, and it is fairly fast and has a low throw.

 

[JJ Ng]

If you want to explore a few Victas rubbers, I'd suggest getting Ventus Stiff (formerly TSP Ventus Speed) - it is very similar to Nittaku Fastarc C-1, but while I have C-1 on all-wood blade, I have Ventus Stiff on an outer KLC blade (Yinhe T8S), so I cannot draw a good comparison, but I am certain, that the topsheets are very similar in physical properties. Ventus Limber (TSP Ventus Spin) could be also a good candidate - the sponge is softer (40° vs 45˚), but the rubber topsheet is similarly hefty. Both are availabe in 2.0 and max thicknesses.
Also there is a lineup with generally softer and more spin-insensitive topsheets (Victas 07 rubbers are meant for beginner/intermediate players), but maybe that would be out of consideration for you. Victas 07 Stiff can be relatively easy to bottom out, feels a bit softer than its indicated 45° sponge hardness. For some reason I cannot recall, that 07 Limber (40˚) would be worse in this regard, and it is fairly fast and has a low throw.

Thank you for your invaluable feedback. I did see that several rubbers in various series has "Limber" attached to the name, at the end. Does that mean that rubber is the softest in that series?

Also how catapulty are the Victas rubbers in general? I like some catapult but not too much. So if Victas 07 rubbers are meant for beginner/intermediate players, and have some catapult effect, I can work with that. I usually just slap them on harder faster carbon blades, and the problem is solved!

I would rank the catapult effect as Tenergy fx series > Tibhar Revolution series > Rakza series (7 and X) > G1 and C1.

So you could tell I in general like the less catapult ones but softer sponge tends to be a little more bouncy at the lower gear anyway so it all evens out. When I put lower forces on Rakza 7 soft and C-1 I could feel the catapult pulling the ball over the net. When I have to block hard topspin coming at me, yes, the speed is less than say Tenergy 05 or G-1, but I feel that I can block with more confidence and more control.

 

[damszelfly]

Thank you for your invaluable feedback. I did see that several rubbers in various series has "Limber" attached to the name, at the end. Does that mean that rubber is the softest in that series?

Yes, Victas has this indication in their catalog: Limber (40), Regular (42.5), Stiff (45), Extra (47.5), Double Extra (50-52.5)

Also how catapulty are the Victas rubbers in general? I like some catapult but not too much. So if Victas 07 rubbers are meant for beginner/intermediate players, and have some catapult effect, I can work with that. I usually just slap them on harder faster carbon blades, and the problem is solved!

I think, there is not "in general" for the Victas rubbers. But one can make a few guesses based on their catalog data. When the entire set of rubbers in a given series has higher speed than spin, then those are catapulty rubbers (e.g. 01, 15, 22). 401 and 402 rubbers are not really speedy, Ventus series sits somewhere in between (Ventus Extra being clearly the fastest, but the most advanced as well).
In the 07 series, the Regular is definitely a beginner's rubber (not really spinny and fast, but easy for them to use), Limber and Stiff are rather bouncy, Sticky Extra is an exception standing out from the previous rubbers in the series - fairly slow on average, but very spinny, maybe it is here, because it is a good starting point for people wanting to develop their skills towards using hybrid or chinese rubbers.

So you could tell I in general like the less catapult ones but softer sponge tends to be a little more bouncy at the lower gear anyway so it all evens out. When I put lower forces on Rakza 7 soft and C-1 I could feel the catapult pulling the ball over the net. When I have to block hard topspin coming at me, yes, the speed is less than say Tenergy 05 or G-1, but I feel that I can block with more confidence and more control.

Yes, these rubbers are easier to use because of the higher bounce on passive shots, but reduced dynamics due to softer sponge.

 

[ben1229]

Stop ejing!

 

[Airoc]

If anyone can frankly tell me that R42, R37, EL Pro 43 or EL Pro 38 are a waste of money especially when I am doing well on Rakza 7 soft and C-1 so far, then please tell me so.

I wouldn´t go that far, but if you don´t have any issues with your setup save your money and stick to what you have.

The Rasanter and Nexxus rubbers are more current than Rakza and C1, and with the development of newer technology I think they enable more spin - but again, if you don´t lack anything and feel at ease with what you have, keep it.

 

[ander999]

I have only really used Butterfly, Xiom, and Gewo products so it is hard for me to speak about other ones. However, I can recommend the Gewo Nexxus EL 43 for you as I use the 48 version myself and am extremely satisfied with it's playing characteristics. Although, I am not quiet sure how soft the Rakza X soft or the 7 Soft are, so maybe do some research (or maybe you know) and see which number closely associates with the Gewo counterpart. Maybe the 38 might be better if it is closer to that.

Feel free to ask any questions.

 

[TackyForehand]

Sounds like you are suited for backhand rubbers around 45ESN hardness and 2.0mm. Rubbers with the same specs play similarly. For example you may like GEWO Proton Neo 450, Andro R45, Victas V>15 Limber, etc. Of similar rubbers, those made in Japan are generally higher quality and more durable.

 

[JJ Ng]

Yes, Victas has this indication in their catalog: Limber (40), Regular (42.5), Stiff (45), Extra (47.5), Double Extra (50-52.5)



I think, there is not "in general" for the Victas rubbers. But one can make a few guesses based on their catalog data. When the entire set of rubbers in a given series has higher speed than spin, then those are catapulty rubbers (e.g. 01, 15, 22). 401 and 402 rubbers are not really speedy, Ventus series sits somewhere in between (Ventus Extra being clearly the fastest, but the most advanced as well).
In the 07 series, the Regular is definitely a beginner's rubber (not really spinny and fast, but easy for them to use), Limber and Stiff are rather bouncy, Sticky Extra is an exception standing out from the previous rubbers in the series - fairly slow on average, but very spinny, maybe it is here, because it is a good starting point for people wanting to develop their skills towards using hybrid or chinese rubbers.


Yes, these rubbers are easier to use because of the higher bounce on passive shots, but reduced dynamics due to softer sponge.

Thank you for your explanation. Yes I seem to get the impression that any with Limber at the end is softer and you clarified it for me. Victas really named their rubbers weird. I am so confused by it. The Rasanter series and the Gewo EL Pro series seem to name their products by sponge hardness and it is easy to understand. For example, I have a sheet of Rasanter R47. Too hard for me. Then I know not to touch R48 or R53 (or even C53). But maybe R42 and R37 can be considered.

Again this is the best explanation of the Victas products I have read so far! Thanks!

 

[JJ Ng]

Stop ejing!

Lol, you are being honest with me! With the newer tensor rubbers being $55 or $63 a piece, it is getting expensive. Like Butterfly product expensive. I am currently digesting a big shipment of blades coming in. I have run out of AK47 and CJ8000 to test on my backhand side. I could order more C-1 and Rakza 7 soft to digest this shipment of blades but I am tempted to get something from another brand to see. Uhm...bills are adding up! My AK47 and CJ8000 just got a thin layer of booster last night. If it plays well, then my problem is solved. But I doubt Chinese rubbers have much catapult effect.

Thank you for your honest opinion!

 

[damszelfly]

Thank you for your explanation. Yes I seem to get the impression that any with Limber at the end is softer and you clarified it for me. Victas really named their rubbers weird. I am so confused by it. The Rasanter series and the Gewo EL Pro series seem to name their products by sponge hardness and it is easy to understand. For example, I have a sheet of Rasanter R47. Too hard for me. Then I know not to touch R48 or R53 (or even C53). But maybe R42 and R37 can be considered.

Again this is the best explanation of the Victas products I have read so far! Thanks!

Based on what you say, Ventus Stiff with its 45° hardness can be on the border line for you (on Yinhe T8S, it is also near border line for me - I am more used to harder rubbers on all-wood blades), maybe then Ventus Limber or 07 Stiff could be a good choice (if we look at Victas only)

 

[JJ Ng]

I wouldn´t go that far, but if you don´t have any issues with your setup save your money and stick to what you have.

The Rasanter and Nexxus rubbers are more current than Rakza and C1, and with the development of newer technology I think they enable more spin - but again, if you don´t lack anything and feel at ease with what you have, keep it.

Appreciate your feedback. Yes didn't C-1 and Rakza came out 10 or even 15 years ago? I think Tenergy came out in 2008 or so?

Yes maybe the new generation does generate more spin. That's why I am curious. I figured maybe one sheet of Nexxus rubber and one sheet of Rasanter rubber to try.

 

[JJ Ng]

I have only really used Butterfly, Xiom, and Gewo products so it is hard for me to speak about other ones. However, I can recommend the Gewo Nexxus EL 43 for you as I use the 48 version myself and am extremely satisfied with it's playing characteristics. Although, I am not quiet sure how soft the Rakza X soft or the 7 Soft are, so maybe do some research (or maybe you know) and see which number closely associates with the Gewo counterpart. Maybe the 38 might be better if it is closer to that.

Feel free to ask any questions.

Yes so maybe I will get one sheet of EL 43 and one sheet of R37? That way I will zone in what my backhand likes even more? I think Rakza 7 soft is in the 37-40 degree range and C-1 might be slightly harder than that. But my backhand really cannot tell the difference between Rakza 7 soft and C-1, except Rakza 7 soft is a bit more catapulty than C-1.

Thank you!

 

[JJ Ng]

Sounds like you are suited for backhand rubbers around 45ESN hardness and 2.0mm. Rubbers with the same specs play similarly. For example you may like GEWO Proton Neo 450, Andro R45, Victas V>15 Limber, etc. Of similar rubbers, those made in Japan are generally higher quality and more durable.

I think maybe my backhand might even like softer than 45 ESN.

Is Victas made in Japan? All the rest (Andro, Gewo, Revolution series and Fastarc series) are ESN?

Thank you!

 

[JJ Ng]

Based on what you say, Ventus Stiff with its 45° hardness can be on the border line for you (on Yinhe T8S, it is also near border line for me - I am more used to harder rubbers on all-wood blades), maybe then Ventus Limber or 07 Stiff could be a good choice (if we look at Victas only)

Yes agree. I think I might try softer rubber like Ventus Limber.

Eventually when my backhand loop gets better, my guess is go to max sponge for ESN 37-40 degree rubber, then after a while, move up to 45-47.5 degree ESN rubber. Then that's pretty much it. I highly doubt I need 50 degree ESN rubber on my backhand ever. If want to tame the 50 degree ESN rubber on my BH, I might need to become a professional table tennis player at some point, which I have no intention of doing! Too old for that

 

[Airoc]

Is Victas made in Japan?

Some, but not all of them.

As for some of the 45 degree rubbers recommended, my experience is way different.
While the GEWO Proton is suitable for beginners (and sold to them and lower class players with good results by a GEWO shop owner friend), the Rasanter R45 is an absolute powerhouse to rival its bigger brother R48, and the Limber version of the v15 has 40 degrees according to what was said above.

 

[Airoc]

I figured maybe one sheet of Nexxus rubber and one sheet of Rasanter rubber to try.

The differences are not huge. What I noticed in direct comparison is that throughout the series all the Nexxus played a little softer than the "corresponding" (identical sponge hardness) Rasanters. Could be a matter of chance and variation of product, but it was always that way, never the other way round. I think the GEWO rubbers have a slightly softer topsheet.

And 37,5 degrees, whether R37 or Nexxus 38, is veeery soft. You might want to take a look at Evolution FX-P, which has softness AND power.

But again, why change? I perfectly understand the curiousity, but it most cases it sadly doesn´t lead anywhere but money spent.

 

[Airoc]

I think Tenergy came out in 2008 or so?

I guess, but it was so way ahead of the game that it´s still competitive, especially as it responds wonderfully to booster and all the people know how to individualize it ;-)

But that´s another story.

 

[JJ Ng]

The differences are not huge. What I noticed in direct comparison is that throughout the series all the Nexxus played a little softer than the "corresponding" (identical sponge hardness) Rasanters. Could be a matter of chance and variation of product, but it was always that way, never the other way round. I think the GEWO rubbers have a slightly softer topsheet.

And 37,5 degrees, whether R37 or Nexxus 38, is veeery soft. You might want to take a look at Evolution FX-P, which has softness AND power.

But again, why change? I perfectly understand the curiousity, but it most cases it sadly doesn´t lead anywhere but money spen

Thank you for your feedback. Since EL is a bit softer, then one sheet of Gewo Nexxus EL 43 and a sheet of R37 would be perfect.

Yes I have spent a lot of money over the years. I have never played with Gewo and Victas rubber (and I only have one sheet of R47, color green) so I am curious.

But yes, could be money wasted!

 

[mat]

I use R42 on fh because I also like soft rubbes,on bh softer and slower xiom vega europe.
As I read you, I think R42 2.0mm would suits you. Also R42 is not soft, its rated as medium hard on amdro website, so take black one, because black rubbers are softer, spinnier. Maybe you can check also andro hexer grip sfx which is medium soft rubber...
P. S. you pls check tt11 because you have big discount on 42 till end of this weekend (I ordered it).
Good luck