table tennis tips "Increase Spin in table tennis by Chinese coaching"

[NextLevel]

@NextLevel I must say I respect the fact that you are not taking this personally (I hope). I admit I didn't watch all of your videos. A side from the footwork, my comments about your forehand and backhand were mostly extrapolated from the tiny bits I saw. You have a long arm and "whip mechanics" is your thing and I saw few of those forehands so I assumed you are fine in this departement. As for the backhand, I never saw a backhand loop for long balls, never a Chequita for short balls and sometimes you take the ball from the side of your body and not from the stomach/chest. But hey I might be wrong there. btw I'm an adult beginner, just like you, the argument that ERT is not for people like me (us) I don't agree with. I filmed myself once playing and I did like 4 consecutive topspins and I felt like Ma Long for a minute, when I went home and reviewed the footage, even if all balls landed on the table, there is something odd, can't point it out but I can feel it, until I saw ERT video about "Power from the ground" , at least it helped me locate where the problem is (working on it right now). But still, may be your point is, as you already walked this path, this type of learning is exactly what should be avoided.

Very interesting analysis and I appreciate it, not because it is right (even just looking at my warmup, you can see the quality of my stroke if you know what to look for) but because it gives me new ideas. I can't blame you for not watching the whole match as I rarely ever edit anything. I used to take the criticisms far more personally, but I have gotten used to it. I can see why you concluded what you concluded, maybe you are right, maybe you are not. But I haven't trained serve receive in 5 months and before that over a year, so I make it up as I go along. There is just no one to serve to me at my club.

My technique can be very short or very large, so it is not always easy to tell I am looping. As one kid described it, most people are loading up with bent elbow and I am floating my paddle way out in front all by it self and spinning the ball. It is one of those disconnects between mind and reality because in my head, I am not doing that.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw5MLzk1_b8

In any case, here is me playing another BH looper so you know that there will be backhand opportunities without any footwork required to produce them. Just the first few points are enough.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8fP1afL4c0E&feature=youtu.be&t=244

If the ERT videos are showing you things you didn't see before, that is good. I won't debate the explanation or the correctness. But I am not a beginner and if those tips are helping you a lot, neither are you. You are also around good players so that changes a lot of things.

 

[Tenergy05]

No one argued that ERT should specifically reveal his rating as anything other than one relevant information point - the question was to share aspects of his background that would inform his understanding of the subjects he is presenting and his approach to them, and playing level is one such aspect of his background. Video of someone playing is another. We even discussed the idea that coaching details would be more than acceptable. And the argument that rating is not the best indicator of coaching ability is a nuanced one - not terribly difficult to understand but easy to distort for trivial argument gains.

If someone can't tell that ERT is pretty decent player/teacher from the way he organizes the advice, what does that say about them?

For example, I think I also saw the "power from the ground" video, a great emphasis for players serious about shot penetration. He didn't pick this material randomly, because the advice I've seen is key info that works.

 

[Tenergy05]

Very interesting analysis and I appreciate it, not because it is right (even just looking at my warmup, you can see the quality of my stroke if you know what to look for) but because it gives me new ideas. I can't blame you for not watching the whole match as I rarely ever edit anything. I used to take the criticisms far more personally, but I have gotten used to it. I can see why you concluded what you concluded, maybe you are right, maybe you are not. But I haven't trained serve receive in 5 months and before that over a year, so I make it up as I go along. There is just no one to serve to me at my club.

My technique can be very short or very large, so it is not always easy to tell I am looping. As one kid described it, most people are loading up with bent elbow and I am floating my paddle way out in front all by it self and spinning the ball. It is one of those disconnects between mind and reality because in my head, I am not doing that.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw5MLzk1_b8

In any case, here is me playing another BH looper so you know that there will be backhand opportunities without any footwork required to produce them. Just the first few points are enough.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8fP1afL4c0E&feature=youtu.be&t=244

If the ERT videos are showing you things you didn't see before, that is good. I won't debate the explanation or the correctness. But I am not a beginner and if those tips are helping you a lot, neither are you. You are also around good players so that changes a lot of things.

If that's representative video of how you play, and you supposed play at decent level, then you must play a lot with other player of that level.

Many do not have that benefit. Technique is the tool to reach best possible level with least effort. Just look at the Dewitt video: no technique but he probably lives at the club.

 

[NextLevel]

If someone can't tell that ERT is pretty decent player/teacher from the way he organizes the advice, what does that say about them?

For example, I think I also saw the "power from the ground" video, a great emphasis for players serious about shot penetration. He didn't pick this material randomly, because the advice I've seen is key info that works.

Maybe that they have worked with better teachers? And they have seen worse players explain stuff similarly?

 

[izra]

I figured from tne start ERT had a decent level. As much as I could watch it was all reasonable enough. I very much did not like the whole "Chinese secrsts" schtick. Really my main complaint. He doesnt need that to get viewers. But even ERT says that was a bit overdone.

but he does need it. it's what attracts most people.

If someone can't tell that ERT is pretty decent player/teacher from the way he organizes the advice, what does that say about them?

For example, I think I also saw the "power from the ground" video, a great emphasis for players serious about shot penetration. He didn't pick this material randomly, because the advice I've seen is key info that works.

why is everyone talking about that particular video of his so much? his points are fine but he emphasizes the same points that you will get from pretty much any european coach. he starts by comparing a video of a ping skills coach doing a forehand counter and goes to compare it with zhang jike's loop. the principle you should get power on the forehand loop by starting from your legs, then your hip and finally your arm is what is taught in the beginner course for coaches when you first get your coaching license here in croatia, he just happend to call it "power from the ground" which it essentially is.

ovtcharov, gerell and many other european players use the same mechanic on their forehands as do the top chinese players. the principle is the same, it's just that the chinese are better at it, they have stronger legs and better footwork.

 

[Tenergy05]

but he does need it. it's what attracts most people.



why is everyone talking about that particular video of his so much? his points are fine but he emphasizes the same points that you will get from pretty much any european coach. he starts by comparing a video of a ping skills coach doing a forehand counter and goes to compare it with zhang jike's loop. the principle you should get power on the forehand loop by starting from your legs, then your hip and finally your arm is what is taught in the beginner course for coaches when you first get your coaching license here in croatia, he just happend to call it "power from the ground" which it essentially is.

ovtcharov, gerell and many other european players use the same mechanic on their forehands as do the top chinese players. the principle is the same, it's just that the chinese are better at it, they have stronger legs and better footwork.

Emphasizing doing it right is key for keeping balance in penetration strokes. It's not just matter of strength but literally technique.

 

[NextLevel]

You're standing straight up. Do you have bad back and hips? The guy in the video is senior citizen and playing pips.

Sure someone can learn to play ok standing up, but as mentioned without technique it takes longer for same results.

I have global rheumatoid arthritis. Do a quick Google search on the disease. Even tendons in my wrists and elbow and shoulders are missing. Or you think that because I sometimes look like I can bend my body, it doesn't hurt every time I do it?

 

[izra]

Emphasizing doing it right is key for keeping balance in penetration strokes. It's not just matter of strength but literally technique.

can you imagine pitchford using the same principle on his forehand loop to the same degree as zhang jike? nope, it wouldn't work for him. the chinese don't do it differently, they just do it better and utilize their powerful legs more. pitchford has skinny legs and longs arms so he swings his arm more. but the general principle is always the same, use your legs first to get power, then the rest, this is taught in both europe and asia.

 

[Tenergy05]

can you imagine pitchford using the same principle on his forehand loop to the same degree as zhang jike? nope, it wouldn't work for him. the chinese don't do it differently, they just do it better and utilize their powerful legs more. pitchford has skinny legs and longs arms so he swings his arm more. but the general principle is always the same, use your legs first to get power, then the rest, this is taught in both europe and asia.

"Power from the ground" is a way of keeping balance, not just sequence to move the parts.

 

[NextLevel]

How does that prevent a lower stance? Arthritis/inflammation takes most effect when you move a joint. Keep slightly crouched instead of bobbing up and down.

Okay, now I know you are trolling. You don't think that the joints in my spine are inflamed as well?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

You're standing straight up. Do you have bad back and hips? The guy in the video is senior citizen and playing pips.

Sure someone can learn to play ok standing up, but as mentioned without technique it takes longer for same results.

Where have you been? Why do you think we have been talking about the achievement of getting over 2000 USATT starting as an adult who is HANDICAPPED!!!!! Come on. Think about it.

 

[NextLevel]

Where have you been? Why do you think we have been talking about the achievement of getting over 2000 USATT starting as an adult who is HANDICAPPED!!!!! Come on. Think about it.

I don't consider myself handicapped but given my degree of joint damage, only someone who was truly just trying to cruel would act like they know where my damage is and how many disks are or aren't herniated.

Let's put it another way: pro players retire if they have my physical condition.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

How does that prevent a lower stance? Arthritis/inflammation takes most effect when you move a joint. Keep slightly crouched instead of bobbing up and down.

Wow. Did you really write this. Do you think Rheumatoid Arthritis is like osteoarthritis. Or are you really just trying to start more arguments. He has a degenerative joint disease where the fluid in his joints eats the joints and causes them to swell and deform.











That kind of stuff makes it hard to bend joints or move which actually does, really make it quite impressive that NextLevel has gotten to the level he has, starting as an adult and learning to play in a way that causes his body the least amount of pain possible.

So, the word handicapped actually applies here. And it has been explained before. And that is actually the answer to that question you asked when you asked why I would defend him. Even without considering the obstacles he has faced in developing his game skills, he is a pretty decent player even though he does not look as good as he actually is. What he looks like when he plays has to do with the joint disease that he has. But in spite of that disease and his handicapped status, he still got from low level to pretty decent level all as an adult. I will stand up for that any day.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I don't consider myself handicapped but given my degree of joint damage, only someone who was truly just trying to cruel would act like they know where my damage is and how many disks are or aren't herniated.

Let's put it another way: pro players retire if they have my physical condition.

It is good not to think of yourself as handicapped. It is better for you in many ways. But I guarantee you could get handicapped status and get on the handicapped team with Tahl and Sam. They used to try to get Wally on the handicapped team but he refuses.

 

[Baal]

How does that prevent a lower stance? Arthritis/inflammation takes most effect when you move a joint. Keep slightly crouched instead of bobbing up and down.

Yes, the Table Tennis Engineer speaks again. He Knows All. Sees All.

What a guy.

 

[Archosaurus]

I think @NextLevel knows what feels good and what does not a bit better than we do. It's absolutely moronic to give him advice on what to do, when he is saying "No, that won't work".

 

[tropical]

Okay, now I know you are trolling. You don't think that the joints in my spine are inflamed as well?

NL is notorious in blaming someone "trolling" while he does it better than anyone here.

 

[tropical]

Yes, the Table Tennis Engineer speaks again. He Knows All. Sees All.

What a guy.

Ha ha .. he he goes again. TT engineer as a label to people who do not share his view.

 

[ttmonster]

yes , its a broad brush to paint people , but then I don't see you say a word about the distasteful comments about NL's arthritis .....
people who live in ....

Ha ha .. he he goes again. TT engineer as a label to people who do not share his view.

 

[tropical]

yes , its a broad brush to paint people , but then I don't see you say a word about the distasteful comments about NL's arthritis .....

Well ... because I've seen the therm "tt engineer" so many times from the same "scientist" guy. Also NL's arthritis has nothing to do with me and why should I say something when NL loves to label "trolling" to anyone who differs his opinions?