TT Myth Busters

[UpSideDownCarl]

I do think that quote from Rowden Fullen could give Punchy some new material. Seems like Rowden has a fantasy idea of what side/underspin is. Side/underspin does not have two different axes. That is a pretty funny idea though. A magical ball that can spin in two different directions--on two different axes--at the same time.


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[NextLevel]

yes, all those videos show a very unexpected ball flight path because we are all conditioned to expect a certain spin from a certain stroke from having seen it thousands of times with an inverted rubber... but again, the ball does not wobble mid air! meaning, it does not fly zig-zag, or left then right then left again if you will.

and no, i haven't been playing with the seamless ball. the association that i play in is still using the celuloid ball, i've been playing against a whole bunch of LP players for the last 8 years since i've been competing in it.

this is what we call an unproven hypothesis. or even better: speculation.

Wobbling is not zig zag if that means large distortions. Wobbling means an unstable flight path and those balls are visibly wobbling. That is apparent in the videos as opposed to the tight arcs from spun balls. It seems you created your own version of wobbling instead of appreciating the real thing.

 

[NextLevel]

I do think that quote from Rowden Fullen could give Punchy some new material. Seems like Rowden has a fantasy idea of what side/underspin is. Side/underspin does not have two different axes. That is a pretty funny idea though. A magical ball that can spin in two different directions--on two different axes--at the same time.


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That someone can distort the simple effect of air currents so badly is impressive.

 

[SchemeSC]

It didn't make sense to me either Carl, but I can't even wrap my head around Larry Hodges' basic article on the 27 types spin either.

http://tabletenniscoaching.com/node/1811

A topspin/sidespin left/corkscrew right serve?! I truly am "spin stupid" so I'm not sure I'll ever fully grasp this kind of stuff.

 

[NextLevel]

It didn't make sense to me either Carl, but I can't even wrap my head around Larry Hodges' basic article on the 27 types spin either.

http://tabletenniscoaching.com/node/1811

A topspin/sidespin left/corkscrew right serve?! I truly am "spin stupid" so I'm not sure I'll ever fully grasp this kind of stuff.

Take it step by step. It doesn't mean the spin is possible, but working it out step by step makes it easier.

Topspin - spinning forward in the direction of travel.

Left sidespin + topspin - forward and pendulum type sidespin

Right Corkscrew means the ball is spinning somewhat in an axis parallel to its direction of motion and that if it hits the table, it should kick left.

I doubt this spin is possible, but it seems mathematically definable.

 

[NextLevel]

The more I reflect on it, the corkscrews and the sidespins have to go in the same direction. Someone may be able to prove me wrong on that one, but I currently can't imagine it otherwise.

 

[igorponger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZU6fcKNX7fg&feature=player_detailpage#t=802

This is the Physical argumentation that the pingang ball gets wobbling in some cases.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

It is too simple but it presents the picture. The axis of spin can be any angle. It presents 4 clear and simple angles. But it is very rare where any ball is purely one of these axis angles.

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[UpSideDownCarl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZU6fcKNX7fg&feature=player_detailpage#t=802

This is the Physical argumentation that the pingang ball gets wobbling in some cases.

I may not understand the language but the images give you an idea about the limitless number of angles the axis of rotation could have.

But it also gives an interesting idea of how a pips rackets contact might create a wobble ball. The pips racket's contact isn't generating the spin. But if the contact makes the axis of the spin unstable and move the ball just might wobble. That is an interesting hypothesis.

Nice find. I wish I could hit like on your post more than once.

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[SchemeSC]

Carl,

You said that the axis of the spin could become "unstable", and I wonder if this was the idea that Fullen was trying to communicate, but perhaps poorly. The reason I say this is because I just saw another article by Fullen on "angular velocity". He appears to be a man of science and no dummy, so it seemed odd to me that he was seriously claiming the ball could spin in two different directions.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

@ SchemeSC, you may be correct. The way it is worded makes it sound like there is a topspin axis and a side spin axis, both at the same time.

If he means something different I am okay with it being hard to put stuff like this into words. But that wouldn't stop Punchy from listing this as proof that we are all deluded. And even after 20 or 30 times of explaining in detail what you actually meant you would find him saying something like:

SoAndSo still believes in the axis fairy.

Hehe.


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[SchemeSC]

I think we should all just come together and agree that the reason the ball wobbles is because it has an "identity crisis". That should get him pretty fired up:

How can a rubber know if it's away from the table? What holds the racket in "tension"? HOW CAN A BALL HAVE AN IDENTITY CRISIS!?!

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

In any case, igorponger's second video may actually show how wobble balls happen from LP. It is just a hypothesis. But that may be what is happening.


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[Pnachtwey]

Another distortion

You are really a small man. You really want to delude yourself that you can loop better than I can? Go ahead. There are lunatics everywhere.

Another distortion. I can't return back spin balls with T25 better than you. You admitted elsewhere that you could return chopped balls with T25. I have had T25 mounted on my Firewall Plus for 2-4 years and I don't fear a little back spin.

However if that is what you think I said and it gets your blood pressure up the keep on believing your lies.

 

[NextLevel]

Another distortion. I can't return back spin balls with T25 better than you. You admitted elsewhere that you could return chopped balls with T25. I have had T25 mounted on my Firewall Plus for 2-4 years and I don't fear a little back spin.

However if that is what you think I said and it gets your blood pressure up the keep on believing your lies.

Hahaha - Freudian Slip!

So you really believe that if I made a video of myself looping backspin with T25, against the heaviest ball from my robot put to the same place over and over again (and my robot is a high quality Amicus Pro), that I wouldn't do better than you?
Or you were too dense to understand that my statement was about the context of a match where I was comparing T25 to T05 for the kinds of strokes I like to play?

I don't think you are lying - I jut think you have problems understanding how normal people think because you are wired abnormally.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

- I just think you have problems understanding how normal people think because you are wired abnormally.

Hahahahaha. I actually am starting to think that Punchy is really a comedian and doing all this to have some laughs. The arm with the racket in the video is really a stunt double and he is just trying to crank us all up. There is no other explanation I will accept. Nobody could actually be this ridiculous without it being a ruse.

Hahaha.


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[UpSideDownCarl]

I've been thinking about DTop's idea of taking the Newgy Robot, having it set to the highest speed/spin, and turning the head upside down (or right side up) so that topspin is coming out.

Punchy might not be willing to do the test. But we could sure film the test. We could film the arc and kick of the ball. We could film what it looks like when the ball hits the net and spins like crazy, we could film the bounce on the ground after the table and when it hits the wall behind.

I know, PNut would still come up with some excuse for why his ball looks like it has no spin and insist that it has the same amount as came to him.

But it would be funny to put the videos side by side. To see how much spin that would actually be if the machine was set to full and it was topspin. And how much more spin than what Punchy still seems to think is a loop.


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[Der_Echte]

NL... some of the sneaky topspin serves I gave you that night that you had trouble vs were side top corkscrew and kicked to your left. The slow half long or short ones. They kicked to the side more than you were expecting.

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[UpSideDownCarl]

NL... some of the sneaky topspin serves I gave you that night that you had trouble vs were side top corkscrew and kicked to your left. The slow half long or short ones. They kicked to the side more than you were expecting.

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Your placement on those serves is pretty good. You put them in a very awkward position. It makes them even harder to return.


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[Liten]

Another distortion.

Oh! You use that pedal to!?? It's kickass!