What are some of the very fast set-up you have tried with solid control?

[UpSideDownCarl]

Did you actually think there was anything to be offered in the first place? I mean, those people who have experiences to share have already shared without any struggles understanding the question. Pretty happy with all the responses which provided sufficient information.

One thing I would say is, Baal actually probably has more to offer than almost anyone on this site. And, in truth, if you were actually paying attention to nuance, Baal's first post may have had more information in it than you understood.

His second post elaborates. But if you had a deeper understanding of the subject, you may not have needed the elaboration.

Control of what, is a very important question when talking about TT equipment.

 

[Der_Echte]

We have directly addressed what is control in the separate thread, I have always said it is the ease at which you can do something. The problem is, there are so many separate things you have for shot situations, there is no single equipment that is awesum control at all of them.

So... Baal is quite justified in asking "Control of What"

When doing equipment reviews, it is helpful and insightful if the reviewer can communicate exactly what is controllable and not with the gear.

I lot of middle of the road gear is good enough in all shot situations to make it controllable or easy enough to learn the fundamentals... of course a certain combo of equipment will make it easier to do something... often making it more difficult to do something else.

 

[mart1nandersson]

For me a Viscaria with a very linear rubber seems pretty optimal but would be crap for a defender.

I know people that're saying that it's controllable and predictable paired with the right LP. I know a guy who uses it with Yasaka Phantom at a fairly decent level (1800+ Swedish ranking). A lot of the modern defensive blades are really fast as I'm sure that you're aware of.

 

[Tinykin]

I know people that're saying that it's controllable and predictable paired with the right LP. I know a guy who uses it with Yasaka Phantom at a fairly decent level (1800+ Swedish ranking). A lot of the modern defensive blades are really fast as I'm sure that you're aware of.

I agree. This control thing is very subjective as players tend to refer to control only for certain strokes. I know a high level player that chops a lot with a very fast old Primorac carbon with T05 both sides. His game is essentially defensive with lots of spins, lobs and chops from way off the table. If he had concentrated on his TT as a youngster (he's an academic), he would have been very entertaining as an international.

 

[vik2000]

One thing I would say is, Baal actually probably has more to offer than almost anyone on this site. And, in truth, if you were actually paying attention to nuance, Baal's first post may have had more information in it than you understood.

His second post elaborates. But if you had a deeper understanding of the subject, you may not have needed the elaboration.

Control of what, is a very important question when talking about TT equipment.

The thing is, I don't even disagree with what you are saying.

But by reading my OP, you can infer that I'm not interested in what control you might gain or lose with a defensive set up. My key words include very fast and loop and I've even included some examples of blades as well. This is evidenced by the fact that people replying to me really had no issue understanding what I meant.

If you want this level of detail, you need to put a sticky telling people to do so, because I'm telling you right now that 90% of questions on the forum don't have such level of detail. In every question asked on the forum, rarely is there a question that doesn't require some form of interpretation in light of the context.

Also, if you look at most of the reviews Dan does when he reviews a multiple blades of see series with differing speed (Garaydia series, Andro Treiber vs. Ligna), he mentions the word control without religiously explaining what the hell it means. This literally applies to nearly all of the reviews out there as well.

If someone asks a question "what blade gives you the most control?", then sure that may be confusing but that isn't the case.

Like I said, I'm totally happy with the replies I've gotten so far. If you understood my question and have anything to share, great. Otherwise, move on.

 

[Baal]

OK, we are talking about controlling your loop with very fast blade. You mentioned the range of blades you were interested in but in the OP never mentioned what aspects of the game you were looking to "control". In my experience anything that gives you a kind of high trajectory off a composite blade that still has some flex is useable. That allows for the fact that you still have to serve and return serve in real play. I am a big fan of ALC blades because I think it gets all the trade-offs just about right. I like most Butterfly ZLC and sZLC blades too, but why pay more? I find Schlager/Primorac blades unplayable. So assuming that you go with classic ALC type blades, i really think it comes down to rubber more than blade if that is what you are looking for. At the end of the day, for a good offensive player it is hard to imagine much will be better than a Viscaria or TB-ALC with Tenergy 05 on both sides. And that is why this combination (or blades that have essentially similar design meant for the same kind of player) dominate the pro tour. Some players will have learned to play with a tacky rubber on their forehand, so for them some boosted version of Hurricane works better instead of Tenergy, but the racket choice remains the same (again bearing mind that lots of blades have playing qualities more or less like a classic Butterfly ALC design). The blade you seem to be using falls into the very fast and stiff end of that general class of blades. It is hard to imagine that you would need anything faster than that! I personally think something with just a little more flex is easier in all phases of the game.

 

[vik2000]

OK, we are talking about controlling your loop with very fast blade. You mentioned the range of blades you were interested in but in the OP never mentioned what aspects of the game you were looking to "control". In my experience anything that gives you a kind of high trajectory off a composite blade that still has some flex is useable. That allows for the fact that you still have to serve and return serve in real play. I am a big fan of ALC blades because I think it gets all the trade-offs just about right. I like most Butterfly ZLC and sZLC blades too, but why pay more? I find Schlager/Primorac blades unplayable. So assuming that you go with classic ALC type blades, i really think it comes down to rubber more than blade if that is what you are looking for. At the end of the day, for a good offensive player it is hard to imagine much will be better than a Viscaria or TB-ALC with Tenergy 05 on both sides. And that is why this combination (or blades that have essentially similar design meant for the same kind of player) dominate the pro tour. Some players will have learned to play with a tacky rubber on their forehand, so for them some boosted version of Hurricane works better instead of Tenergy, but the racket choice remains the same (again bearing mind that lots of blades have playing qualities more or less like a classic Butterfly ALC design). The blade you seem to be using falls into the very fast and stiff end of that general class of blades. It is hard to imagine that you would need anything faster than that! I personally think something with just a little more flex is easier in all phases of the game.

Baal, what you're saying makes total sense. I feel like the difference in speed between a Viscaria and Mizutani SZLC might not be as pronounced as people make it to be (although I could be wrong) and probably the choice of rubbers will have much more impact.

I agree that stiff blades like Primorac simply isn't even suited for a looper despite its hinoki outer ply. I would love to test back to back T05 slapped on Viscaria and T05 slapped on Mizutani SZLC get a feel of the difference though. Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to do so.

 

[Baal]

Baal, what you're saying makes total sense. I feel like the difference in speed between a Viscaria and Mizutani SZLC might not be as pronounced as people make it to be (although I could be wrong) and probably the choice of rubbers will have much more impact.

I agree that stiff blades like Primorac simply isn't even suited for a looper despite its hinoki outer ply. I would love to test back to back T05 slapped on Viscaria and T05 slapped on Mizutani SZLC get a feel of the difference though. Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to do so.

I've never tried the Mitzutani blade so maybe there is something about it that is quite different from composite blades I've used. But I've played with the ZJK-ZLC and sZLC blades (belonged to clubmates). They are nice and if I bought one I suspect in about a week it would feel perfectly natural for me. BUT, and this is the big thing, I would also be playing pretty much exactly the same way as I do with my Viscaria. So in the end, no point to it. I would say that those ZLC blades are slightly faster than my Viscaria but not enough to really make a difference once I adjusted. Like I said, my guess is that would take maybe a week or so.

Of course there is the little issue of Rule 20. The correct number of blades to own is n + 1 where n is the number you own now. You should therefore buy the Mitzutani. And the Viscaria if you don't have one now.

 

[vik2000]

I've never tried the Mitzutani blade so maybe there is something about it that is quite different from composite blades I've used. But I've played with the ZJK-ZLC and sZLC blades (belonged to clubmates). They are nice and if I bought one I suspect in about a week it would feel perfectly natural for me. BUT, and this is the big thing, I would also be playing pretty much exactly the same way as I do with my Viscaria. So in the end, no point to it. I would say that those ZLC blades are slightly faster than my Viscaria but not enough to really make a difference once I adjusted. Like I said, my guess is that would take maybe a week or so.

Of course there is the little issue of Rule 20. The correct number of blades to own is n + 1 where n is the number you own now. You should therefore buy the Mitzutani. And the Viscaria if you don't have one now.

Lol, very true about the Rule 20. I'm just trying to find reasons to suppress my EJ bug. My main three blades are ZJK ALC, Acoustic and Long 5. They are to me distinctively different blades in terms of feel and I have favorite rubbers that I'd like to pair with them. I'm just tempted to try Hinoki because it is one type of wood I've not had a chance to really play with, so I thought about Garaydia series. Mizutani's Limba, ZLC, Limba also seems like a very interesting composite combination.