Why do people say LP's should be banned?

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But Table Tennis rules on rubbers a beautifully clear as well. In fact, we have it even better than having beautifully clear rules...because the governing body literally produces a list of rubbers that we're allowed to use. We have absolutely no need to study the ITTF rulebook and get our tape measure out to measure sponge thicknesses or aspect ratios etc. All we have to do is pick a rubber from the list! How could they make it any simpler than literally saying "here's the list of what you can use, just pick from this list and its all good"?
That makes it even worst! Just think how much money have you spent buying ITTF approved rubbers? We are paying ITTF for checking our rubber thickness? BS. How expensive can it be checking the sponge thickness?

Let me tell, ITTF can just simply publish the rubber specifications to public and let the manufacturers comply to it, problem solved! ITTF only check them before the tournament.

Why can't they do it? Because of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ :ROFLMAO:

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That makes it even worst! Just think how much money have you spent buying ITTF approved rubbers? We are paying ITTF for checking our rubber thickness? BS. How expensive can it be checking the sponge thickness?

Let me tell, ITTF can just simply publish the rubber specifications to public and let the manufacturers comply to it, problem solved! ITTF only check them before the tournament.

Why can't they do it? Because of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ :ROFLMAO:

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Hate to defend the ITTF but you are oversimplifying things quite a bit, not sure you are aware of the kinds of things players can do to cheat.
 
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Here's a Benedek Olah masterclass against long pimple. Never let them take the initiative.

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I watched the game on WTT site on YouTube. Link below:


Olah was, not surprisingly, down 1 point to 6 points before mounting a comeback in the first set. Olah did not play safe. He played a high risk and high reward game. He loopkilled hard on the balls he could. He intentionally kept on playing to the backhand of Mladenovic where anti is usually used there because Olah knows how to play against anti.

And that's how to play anti/long-pip. You never, ever shy away from their anti/long-pip. You pin them down and loopskill hard to finish all points early.

The interesting thing is, every player uses his anti/long-pip differently. Does he use it to block? Does he use it to disrupt timing? Does he use anti/long-pip off the bounce? When you give them the occasional push, does he push back (therefore very passive) or does he flip those push into fast top spin return to be aggressive? So it usually takes about a set to explore. After that you either figure it out and win the match or you never figure it out and you lose the match.

Olah took about 3/4 of the first game to figure it out and after that, mostly smooth sailing from there with some mistakes here and there due to him being aggressive early on in every single point.
 
This could not be a better example of someone who is totally untechnical on his BH and has but resorted to technical equipment. (Out of desperation?) For being such a young player, I find this a frightening evolution.
Without his technical rubbers, he would more than likely never have been there.
Well, it is what it is, but my question remains, why? Give that boy an inverted rubber on his BH and Olah makes it 3 x 11-5 with fingers in his nose.
On a positive note, Olah did have to put in a lot of effort, whether he got satisfaction out of it is doubtful.
 
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This is anti not pips…Luka twiddles a bit, you can see when he has the spinny rubber on backhand that he has no real problem playing a solid “normal” shot. You can see Olah knows how to play the disruptive balls and is able to overpower Luka, this is what good players do to lp or anti players. Luka gets low, plays athletically, no old man standing still blocking on display here.
At least in this game after the first couple of points for adjustment the anti turns into a disadvantage, can’t see any reason you’d want to ban it…
 
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That makes it even worst! Just think how much money have you spent buying ITTF approved rubbers? We are paying ITTF for checking our rubber thickness? BS. How expensive can it be checking the sponge thickness?

Let me tell, ITTF can just simply publish the rubber specifications to public and let the manufacturers comply to it, problem solved! ITTF only check them before the tournament.

Why can't they do it? Because of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ :ROFLMAO:

View attachment 29152


The money issue is separate from the issue of whether on not the rules of Table Tennis are simple and a straight-forward. Having an approved list of rubbers does make abiding by the rules more simplistic, because it requires ZERO interpretation of the rules on the part of the player. A Table Tennis player doesn't need to consult the ITTF rule book and then apply that rule when purchasing a new rubber; they don't have to get their tape measure out to measure the thickness of the covering or the aspect ratio of pimples etc; all they need to do is check the ITTF "List of Approved Racket Coverings" and pick one from that list. Whether that ultimately costs more or not is a moot point if we're discussing the issue of 'simplicity'.

What constitutes a legal rubber in terms of its physical properties is information that is already in the public domain...and yet we still have manufacturers that produce illegal rubbers that don't comply to ITTF specifications. So we already know as an observable fact that manufacturers cannot be trusted to self-police and comply to the rules.
 
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1,000,000% agree! I was actually thinking along similar lines, using baseball as an example.

Baseball rules are beautifully clear and simple. There's no room for compromise on equipment specifications. All players must use bats that meet the same strict criteria: a smooth, round wooden bat no more than 2.61 inches in diameter and 42 inches long, made from a single piece of solid wood. The rules even go as far as specifying that players' uniforms must have numbers at least six inches tall on the back.

Now, you might wonder, why not allow cricket bats or other types of bats? The answer is simple: MLB prioritizes consistency. You play by the rules, or you don't play.

This clarity and simplicity make baseball accessible to everyone. Even a six-year-old can understand and enjoy watching or playing the game. That's reflected in the huge viewership for both televised and live games.
I completely agree with the points Vipertabletennis made. Litterally telling people: "this is what you can use" is more clear than your baseball example. What if somebody develops a baseball wood that delivers unexpected spin? (Balsa baseball bat has a nice ring...). Then the rules don't work anymore.

In addition, simplicity is not what draws viewers to sports. Formula 1 is the most watched sport world wide, and nobody of the viewers can understand the cars (even engineers), and the rules get broken continuously. The soft and hard tires aren't even the same compound from race to race, so even if you think you understand, you still don't. In downhill skiing people use all kinds of different wood and carbon compounds, very similar to TT blades.

If we compare how F1 is televised to TT:
  • F1 has fantastic camera angles, high defintion camera and audio, drone shots, real-time statistics.
  • F1 has exciting commentary, explaining basic concepts for beginners as well as tactical insights for advanced fans.
  • F1 builds up storyline of drivers and teams in anticipation, so that you the fan gets a connection
  • Documentary on Netflix to get more outside viewers in, so fans can discuss the sport even with their noob friends and family
  • Connection with apps and social media.
  • Drivers who can talk in front of a microfone without being embarrased.
Table tennis coverage has almost none of this. F1 is not a ball sport but other sports have this as well. I used F1 as an example because they do it best. The marketing is the difference, not the rulebook.
 
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This could not be a better example of someone who is totally untechnical on his BH and has but resorted to technical equipment. (Out of desperation?) For being such a young player, I find this a frightening evolution.
Without his technical rubbers, he would more than likely never have been there.
Well, it is what it is, but my question remains, why? Give that boy an inverted rubber on his BH and Olah makes it 3 x 11-5 with fingers in his nose.
On a positive note, Olah did have to put in a lot of effort, whether he got satisfaction out of it is doubtful.
Tbh Luka's inverted FH loop and footwork is quite bad for a pro. Olah was simply giving him long fast serves all the time and he could only piece together a lukewarm loop, and same with all the lukewarm FH soft flicks Olah was doing. If you gave the anti setup to any CNT player (even 2nd and 3rd team) they would have completely demolished those serves and lukewarm flicks with FH alone.

This is the main problem I mentioned with a lot of pips/anti players and why they seem to have a ceiling - they're just lazy and never actually bothered to make their inverted side super strong to create a credible threat.

I suspect Luka will actually lose to the Indian women team lmao. Unlike him, they actually have a good variety of pips strokes, solid footwork and killer FH attacks.
 
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And yet baseball has a problem with athletes cheating with the use of performance enhancing drugs 🤷🏻‍♂️

LOL

Don't you think TT players are cheating more often? They cheat the serve, rubber, even drugs!

Just last year, Kanak Jha was banned for missed drug tests.

Chilean Matias Pino has been stripped of the gold medal at the 2019 Parapan American Games, he failed a drugs test.

The list goes on.

IMO, drugs use in amateur level is even worst.
 
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I am going to leave a spare LP bat on the car dash for a couple hours before league tonite, play on table 2, and see who struggles vs my LP blocks tonite.

Is that just as bad as tuning the heck outta H3 and use a $1000 USD 968 blade?

If not, then why?
 
says I'm still learning Table Tennis.
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I completely agree with the points Vipertabletennis made. Litterally telling people: "this is what you can use" is more clear than your baseball example. What if somebody develops a baseball wood that delivers unexpected spin? (Balsa baseball bat has a nice ring...). Then the rules don't work anymore.

In addition, simplicity is not what draws viewers to sports. Formula 1 is the most watched sport world wide, and nobody of the viewers can understand the cars (even engineers), and the rules get broken continuously. The soft and hard tires aren't even the same compound from race to race, so even if you think you understand, you still don't. In downhill skiing people use all kinds of different wood and carbon compounds, very similar to TT blades.

If we compare how F1 is televised to TT:
  • F1 has fantastic camera angles, high defintion camera and audio, drone shots, real-time statistics.
  • F1 has exciting commentary, explaining basic concepts for beginners as well as tactical insights for advanced fans.
  • F1 builds up storyline of drivers and teams in anticipation, so that you the fan gets a connection
  • Documentary on Netflix to get more outside viewers in, so fans can discuss the sport even with their noob friends and family
  • Connection with apps and social media.
  • Drivers who can talk in front of a microfone without being embarrased.
Table tennis coverage has almost none of this. F1 is not a ball sport but other sports have this as well. I used F1 as an example because they do it best. The marketing is the difference, not the rulebook.
Ok but this is like comparing between Taylor Swift and a karaoke singer.
 
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You mean I can flat hit and win points?

I didn't know that...

I had been conditioned that flat-hitting is a dirty word.

I gotta try this against these pipsters and witches.
It's not that pips are hard to play against, they just require specific tactics and things you normally wouldn't do.
 
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This is anti not pips…Luka twiddles a bit, you can see when he has the spinny rubber on backhand that he has no real problem playing a solid “normal” shot. You can see Olah knows how to play the disruptive balls and is able to overpower Luka, this is what good players do to lp or anti players. Luka gets low, plays athletically, no old man standing still blocking on display here.
At least in this game after the first couple of points for adjustment the anti turns into a disadvantage, can’t see any reason you’d want to ban it…
Long pips and antis are used pretty similar one to another, in this video it could be either of them, it wouldn't make a difference.
 
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I truly heartedly agree with everything you have said.

I grew up playing Jpen with 38mm celluloid ball. I also use Friendship 729 so I could spin the hell out of the ball.

I came back to the sport again 6-7 years ago and now everyone is flipping and counter looping. I don't know that's good or bad.

Back then, I could win more service points outright. Now with the plastic ball, it is much harder to generate spin.

I still remember that with celluloid balls, the spin from the initial serve, because of how spinny the ball was, would affect the next 4-5 strokes. Now with plastic ball, even if I spin the heck out of the serve, it only affects the next 2 strokes at most!

Therefore, with the advent of the plastic ball, it did not just affect long pip players, it also affected players who were trained to spin the ball (instead of smashing the ball) as some of the spins have been taken out of the game.

I do see lower level players "looping" and counter-"looping" like there is no tomorrow. But their reading of the spin is not very accurate because, well, their opponents cannot put too much spin on the ball at that level anyway. I don't know if it is good or bad for the sport, switching to plastic ball.
JJ, I hear you... but overall in USA from where I see TT, there are more training times going on, more teaching, more access to info, and the ABS ball makes it so damn easy to hit or spin vs spin and pace... so everyone trying to get better is getting better... better than they ever got before. It makes sense many players are getting better and play more advanced at lower levels.

Holistically, I say this is good.

For the ones who are just enjoying the sport and not getting better, well, you know how they feel.
 
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JJ, I hear you... but overall in USA from where I see TT, there are more training times going on, more teaching, more access to info, and the ABS ball makes it so damn easy to hit or spin vs spin and pace... so everyone trying to get better is getting better... better than they ever got before. It makes sense many players are getting better and play more advanced at lower levels.

Holistically, I say this is good.

For the ones who are just enjoying the sport and not getting better, well, you know how they feel.
Even with the old ball it would be the same. People learned to take initiative like the Chinese did back in the day, now the game is faster than ever because the players are better than ever.
 
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.. they seem to have a ceiling - they're just lazy and never actually bothered to make their inverted side super strong to create a credible threat.

..
GENERALLY, I agree they are lazy. These guys don't even know how to stretching. They don't look athletic at all, not moving, smoking, talking rubbish, boasting etc. This is one of the reason I dislike playing against them, in fact I avoid playing against them (the type I mentioned) and not really because I hate the rubber.

But let be fair, I know some of them (if not many) are opposite of what I've said before. And I love playing against them, I learned a lot from them as well on how to play against pips-out. But this doesn't mean I like the rubber, I still hate it and hopefully be banned one day 🤣
 
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It's got nothing, or at least very little, to do with winning or losing. Playing against long pips is just not a joyful sport.
Maybe LP shouldn't be banned totally but it would be nice with competitions with a "non-LP"-event/class.
It clearly does have to do with losing since you are literally so scared of losing and insecure against someone who plays differently than you, that you want them segregated from you in competition.
 
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This is the main problem I mentioned with a lot of pips/anti players and why they seem to have a ceiling - they're just lazy and never actually bothered to make their inverted side super strong to create a credible threat.

Absolutely correct. It's funny that when someone with 2x inverted rubbers reaches a ceiling, people comment that it's because that player hasn't put in the time / training / hard work. But when the player is using pimples on one side, it's the pimples' fault! They are holding them back / limiting their level! Not time / training / hard work, but the equipment.

Personally I love it when I face someone with anti or pimple, I just target that side and it's usually pretty easy to win. This is because the anti or pimples are usually covering a massive weakness. It's like a signpost that says 'play here' with a big bullseye. But it's not always the case, and I need to be careful not to assume they are low level and that I'm automatically better than they are.

But I have to be honest here, double inverted players (even pros like in the videos above) also have weaknesses and poor techniques (especially pushing). I think some people in this thread are looking at double inverted players like super humans when in fact they are very fallible and have lots of issues even at the top level. However a lot of people in this thread only choose to see the issues when the player is using pimples.

The biggest problem I see at my local clubs and even in international tournaments is over-specialisation. Players only enjoy looping, so they get good a good kinetic chain and great footwork. They train 4x+ per week and only really train that. Topspin against topspin. This is why they like to serve short topspin so often, to invite a weak flick that they can counter - no need to deal with a pesky boring table game. Their training is focused on making them 0.1% better than their peers at looping, to the detriment of all other skills. So when you introduce even a mid-level chopper or a half-decent pimple player, they are out of their element and can struggle.

I occasionally play the 'top juniors' in my country and they can't even handle a no-spin push, whether it's done with pimples or without. Their coaches train them to handle high weak underspin, popups from serve, weak blocked balls and that's it - hours on end. It's really just a money-making scheme. Just like what you see with a lot of tennis 'coaches' nowadays.

The problem with wanting to ban pips is poor mindset + over-specialisation. Players don't want to train the skills needed (because it's boring) + they put in a lot of effort training the things they like. When they come up against a 'skillless pimples player' they mentally explode after losing a few points. 'How dare someone with no skill and who puts in no effort defeat me? This is so unfair.' It's an entitlement mindset and it comes from a fragile ego.

When you (anyone readying this post, not specifically blahness) communicate the above during a match (vocally or through body language) you are showing your opponent very clearly your mental weakness. And you cant cover it up either - if you have this attitude, a good opponent will pick it up no matter how much you try to hide it. It only takes a few points not going your way, then you delusional reality will implode and you will completely lose self-belief and confidence. Look at Timo Boll - he never treats his opponents with disrespect, as if they are below him. He always treats them as an equal. This isn't just his personality - it's a required attitude for real mental toughness. If pimples are banned then guess what? The same mental self-destruction will occur when you face someone with great serves. 'He only wins because of his serves, has no other skills, it's not fair'. The next step is to ban spinny serves or limit where they can be placed, of course! ;)

Instead realise that 1) Hard work guarantees you nothing. You are not entitled to win anything. You are not a king and the pimples player a peasant. 2) You have no idea how much work the other player puts into their game every week, you just assume it's 0 because they have pimples or because they are 'old'. 3) You think that pimples are a cop-out and easy to use (even though you have never used them yourself). 4) You assume that their technique is 'bad' (even though you have no reference point) and your technique is 'good' (because it superficially resembles 'standard technique'). 5) You over estimate your ability and underestimate the opponents ability. This is the delusional reality that was described above. When you treat your opponent with disrespect like this (and over inflate your ego), and then you lose a few points, your inner and outer critics will rear their ugly heads, then it's pretty much game over.
 
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