World Table Tennis Championships 2023

[Gtsnake]

No let's not.

Ma Long is a millionaire, a national celebrity, and will go down as the greatest table tennis player in history.

Wong is a fringe top 100 table tennis guy who probably has spent his life in obscurity and has probably spent many times more pursuing table tennis than he's earned.

The fact that Ma Long feels he needs to steal a game from a guy like this is absolutely classless behavior. It's dishonesty plain and simple. Way worse than throwing a racket in a fit of anger IMO. The best of all time should be way better than this.

At the time ML was under pressure because Eugene was holding is own and poised to take game one. Maybe he wasn't sure it was side or top edge and just deferred to the umpire (who IMO made the incorrect call).

Also crossed my mine was the bias toward the GOAT. There may have been some preferential psychological judgement toward a legend. Consciously or subconsciously.

 

[turbozed]

Look, I'm disappointed too. I just am not convinced so much about my own integrity to feel entitled to judge others...

This is exactly why we should be more disappointed when someone like Ma Long does it. Honesty in this self regulated sport at the casual play level is a problem. And when you got the most respected player in history trying to get an 'edge' (no pun intended) over his opponent by not following fair play expectations, it'll become a bigger problem if people make excuses for it and (god forbid) begin to emulate it.

I don't think it's difficult at all to be honest in the sport. Give your opponent their due and beat them honestly the next game. I'm now also shocked that I'm apparently alone in this opinion.

 

[zeio]

Charlotte Lutz used the TO in G2 at 109 after blowing 4 game points from 105.

 

[Richie]

This is exactly why we should be more disappointed when someone like Ma Long does it. Honesty in this self regulated sport at the casual play level is a problem. And when you got the most respected player in history trying to get an 'edge' (no pun intended) over his opponent by not following fair play expectations, it'll become a bigger problem if people make excuses for it and (god forbid) begin to emulate it.

I don't think it's difficult at all to be honest in the sport. Give your opponent their due and beat them honestly the next game. I'm now also shocked that I'm apparently alone in this opinion.

It is disappointing, but given the situation, not too surprising. It would be a very different situation if the umpire said that it hit the side and ML started arguing against. In that case it would be easier to judge ML for the things you're saying. But in the case we saw, it isn't enough evidence for me to go as hard as you are in your judgement.

 

[Dr Evil]

Here's a video clip of the "side ball" that ML had a clear view of. Absolutely shocking lack of integrity from him that I never expected.
View attachment 25352

Sure looks like an edge in real time and slow motion video. But if you look at it frame by frame, it's not at all clear that it wasn't a side. In fact, after another look, I think it was a side. Extremely close call, but entirely believable that Ma Long thought it was a side.

 

[zeio]

I'm now also shocked that I'm apparently alone in this opinion.

You'll get used to it.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/tokyo-2020-2020-7-24-8-9.23698/post-349765

 

[turbozed]

It is disappointing, but given the situation, not too surprising. It would be a very different situation if the umpire said that it hit the side and ML started arguing against. In that case it would be easier to judge ML for the things you're saying. But in the case we saw, it isn't enough evidence for me to go as hard as you are in your judgement.

I'm trying to understand why I'm the only one upset about this. I watch enough sports to know that dishonesty is a feature and not a bug of some sports (basketball, soccer/football, etc.). I have been very happy to watch pro TT in the past year or so and not see this type of behavior. Most players are extremely honest honorable about stuff that would be even hard to see in slow-motion (e.g. balls contacting shirt, balls barely nicking the table, etc.). I guess I was a bit naive to think that TT made people behave a bit more classy.

Also, I am more convinced than everyone else that that's a clear edge ball. I've never seen any ball hit the side and travel another 5 or 6 feet forwards before hitting the ground. If you're hitting the ball a foot above the table at that angle and it hits the side, it dives down. To me this is just an obvious matter of physics (and I might be wrong here, if someone can show me how it's even remotely possible I'll change my mind). I assume Ma Long has seen hundreds of thousands of balls like that and there would be no doubt in his mind either.

So I guess it's the combination of me thinking it's physically impossible for that to be a side ball, attributing that same knowledge to ML, and having higher expectations for player behavior than is maybe justified.

I'm going to stop trying to convince you guys to see it the same way, but after watching the sequence over again, including ML's body language during the whole thing, I don't think I'll be changing my mind about what I saw. I'll be rooting against ML for the foreseeable future.

 

[NextLevel]

I'm trying to understand why I'm the only one upset about this. I watch enough sports to know that dishonesty is a feature and not a bug of some sports (basketball, soccer/football, etc.). I have been very happy to watch pro TT in the past year or so and not see this type of behavior. Most players are extremely honest honorable about stuff that would be even hard to see in slow-motion (e.g. balls contacting shirt, balls barely nicking the table, etc.). I guess I was a bit naive to think that TT made people behave a bit more classy.

Also, I am more convinced than everyone else that that's a clear edge ball. I've never seen any ball hit the side and travel another 5 or 6 feet forwards before hitting the ground. If you're hitting the ball a foot above the table at that angle and it hits the side, it dives down. To me this is just an obvious matter of physics (and I might be wrong here, if someone can show me how it's even remotely possible I'll change my mind). I assume Ma Long has seen hundreds of thousands of balls like that and there would be no doubt in his mind either.

So I guess it's the combination of me thinking it's physically impossible for that to be a side ball, attributing that same knowledge to ML, and having higher expectations for player behavior than is maybe justified.

I'm going to stop trying to convince you guys to see it the same way, but after watching the sequence over again, including ML's body language during the whole thing, I don't think I'll be changing my mind about what I saw. I'll be rooting against ML for the foreseeable future.

In table tennis, it is normal to let the judgment of the umpire stand. Umpires can mess things up, and sometimes you have to learn to accept it.

Wang has been the top play in North America for many years. Had the experience of being destroyed by him once, it was all fun.

Finally, it is okay to have a strong opinion about this. I think on the physics you are right, but in a match, there are many things in play, including playing as a part of a system. In fact, in a team match, Ma Long taking the action you recommend is almost considered a violation of the interests of the team. The umpire made the call, it is what it is. In this case, the video should have been reviewed and in fact, your interpretation of the physics might be very different from that of the umpire who believe it or not, might have made the same call even upon reviewing the video. Edge calls can be pretty tough, and there has been some resistance at developing strong and clear criteria that will evolve with experience to make reviewing these things easier. Hopefully, some of this will change if the sport remains and video review expands.

 

[latej]

I'm trying to understand why I'm the only one upset about this. I watch enough sports to know that dishonesty is a feature and not a bug of some sports (basketball, soccer/football, etc.). I have been very happy to watch pro TT in the past year or so and not see this type of behavior. Most players are extremely honest honorable about stuff that would be even hard to see in slow-motion (e.g. balls contacting shirt, balls barely nicking the table, etc.). I guess I was a bit naive to think that TT made people behave a bit more classy.

Also, I am more convinced than everyone else that that's a clear edge ball. I've never seen any ball hit the side and travel another 5 or 6 feet forwards before hitting the ground. If you're hitting the ball a foot above the table at that angle and it hits the side, it dives down. To me this is just an obvious matter of physics (and I might be wrong here, if someone can show me how it's even remotely possible I'll change my mind). I assume Ma Long has seen hundreds of thousands of balls like that and there would be no doubt in his mind either.

So I guess it's the combination of me thinking it's physically impossible for that to be a side ball, attributing that same knowledge to ML, and having higher expectations for player behavior than is maybe justified.

I'm going to stop trying to convince you guys to see it the same way, but after watching the sequence over again, including ML's body language during the whole thing, I don't think I'll be changing my mind about what I saw. I'll be rooting against ML for the foreseeable future.

You should not feel alone. Valueing what you value is the only hope left.

Breath out ;-)

 

[Dr Evil]

Sure looks like an edge in real time and slow motion video. But if you look at it frame by frame, it's not at all clear that it wasn't a side. In fact, after another look, I think it was a side. Extremely close call, but entirely believable that Ma Long thought it was a side.

Sharpened image of the frame when (I think) the ball hit the table:

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

This edge/no edge will go on for another 10 pages.

I think, since, multi-balls are used during tournaments nowadays.
they should 2 do things.

1) Put some colour on the side, something that will stain the ball, like a powder or something.
2) set the rule, if the while ball has some of this stain on it, it is side. if there is no powder on it, it is edge.
umpires will need to go and pick up the ball, and decide the result.

but then again, something like this will triggle so much response and the marketing director is super happy when it happens.

 

[karupinkun]

Just judging from the clip posted here I cant see the argument for an edge ball. There might be better camera angles, but from this one it seems likea non edge hit

 

[Gtsnake]

So I'm going to bring this up now since we're talking about edges. Why don't the ITTF just make the table bigger? If you make the table bigger by 20mm any edge ball is obviously out. Instead of possibly in/out and very difficult to determine definitively. If the table was larger by half the ball diameter all bounces on the line would be a true bounce and be in. If a ball hit the edge and bounced at any type of angle it is obviously out.

 

[Richie]

I'm trying to understand why I'm the only one upset about this. I watch enough sports to know that dishonesty is a feature and not a bug of some sports (basketball, soccer/football, etc.). I have been very happy to watch pro TT in the past year or so and not see this type of behavior. Most players are extremely honest honorable about stuff that would be even hard to see in slow-motion (e.g. balls contacting shirt, balls barely nicking the table, etc.). I guess I was a bit naive to think that TT made people behave a bit more classy.

Also, I am more convinced than everyone else that that's a clear edge ball. I've never seen any ball hit the side and travel another 5 or 6 feet forwards before hitting the ground. If you're hitting the ball a foot above the table at that angle and it hits the side, it dives down. To me this is just an obvious matter of physics (and I might be wrong here, if someone can show me how it's even remotely possible I'll change my mind). I assume Ma Long has seen hundreds of thousands of balls like that and there would be no doubt in his mind either.

So I guess it's the combination of me thinking it's physically impossible for that to be a side ball, attributing that same knowledge to ML, and having higher expectations for player behavior than is maybe justified.

I'm going to stop trying to convince you guys to see it the same way, but after watching the sequence over again, including ML's body language during the whole thing, I don't think I'll be changing my mind about what I saw. I'll be rooting against ML for the foreseeable future.

I don't know why you keep saying that you're the only one that's upset about it when a few of us have said that we're also disappointed. It's just that some of us (at least I am), are a bit more reserved with applying the kind of malicious intent that you're portraying happened. For many reasons, it just isn't as clear cut as you make it out to be.

 

[pingpongpaddy]

Sure looks like an edge in real time and slow motion video. But if you look at it frame by frame, it's not at all clear that it wasn't a side. In fact, after another look, I think it was a side. Extremely close call, but entirely believable that Ma Long thought it was a side.

I t seems clear to me that though wang'; head may be only just behind the table it looks as though his bat at contact with the ball is maybe 12 inches outside a continuation of the side line, so if the ball did not go up when it struck the table, it must be a side.
View attachment 25352

 

[OldUser]

Dishonesty in sports has always been there. And... as this competition is held in South Africa, let's remember the "glorious" days of the Springboks dishonesty in 1995.

When Abdelatif Benazzi wasn't awarded the victory try in the semi final... ball didn't touch the line...

When right after, at the "3rd half", you know ... in rugby there's that dinner with both opponents, it's a ceremonial, and guess what happened ? the South African rugby association executives offered a Rolex to the referee.

The rest is history, in the final the boks defeated the All Blacks.... well half of the real all blacks cos' the other half team was suddenly sick the night before at dinner

‘I know what I saw’: Former bodyguard claims All Blacks were poisoned ahead of 1995 Rugby World Cup final

Nelson Mandela’s former bodyguard has weighed into the decades-old controversy over the All Blacks’ 1995 Rugby World Cup loss to South Africa, claiming bookmakers spiked the New Zealanders’ drinks ahead of the final.

www.thenationalnews.com

Nelson Mandela’s former bodyguard claims All Blacks were poisoned ahead of World Cup final loss

‘Suzie the waitress’ rears her head again

www.foxsports.com.au

"Mr Luyt, who is to diplomacy what Jonah Lomu is to English wingers, compounded his country's embarrassment by inexplicably singling out the Welsh referee Derek Bevan - who officiated at the Springboks' crucial semi-final against France - for special praise. The match, which South Africa won 19-15, was marked by controversy after Mr Bevan denied the French a last-minute try because of an infringement.

To the astonishment of the 1,000 diners - and to the Welshman's obvious embarrassment - Mr Luyt presented him with a £1,000 gold watch, calling him 'the most wonderful referee in the world'.

'If everyone does not think that, I certainly do. I would ask him to step up and receive this gift as the outstanding referee in the World Cup,' the Sarfu president said." in https://www.theguardian.com/sport/1995/jun/26/rugbyworldcup2003.rugbyunion1

The try that should have been awarded

NEVER EVER expect decisions to be as honest as they should be when it's about South Africa.

Don't expect the referees to be honest when it comes to judge a ball that might cost a game to a chinese player....

And I can tell you that since that black week in 1995, New Zelanders and Frenchmen are the best allies when it comes to beat South Africa...

 

[OldUser]

Bit of a late post, but I was there on Day 1. Also going back for the final 2 days.

Was amazing to finally get to see players I have watched on screens for years and read about for decades.

View attachment 25346

View attachment 25347

I would post some videos but they are all too large.

Well that would be the only thing large in that hall... playing in such tiny playgrounds in the ETTU European Championships would not be acceptable, this is amateurism

 

[OldUser]

SSSSSH.T Ibou ! he's always that naive on the short game, thinking he can flick anything, he's lost easily too much points on the short game, he's a natural 2 wings looper, but the ball do not always come nice with the right lenght ! He's always been told that in pro B and now pro A, when will he understand ?

 

[OldUser]

He's lost with the windshield wiper :-/

 

[OldUser]

And now the ankle... again... 2 times this season already

EDIT: sorry, it's the knee, well, that's the compensation injury that comes after several ankle ones :-/