World Team Cup 2018

[v100ev]

Well that is why I really don't like Dima. (I'm talking about "Nobody saw the net so no net.."). As I see it - this is bad sportsmanship..

 

[TableTennisDaily]

Today's Full Results:

Men's Team
Women's Team

 

[jawien]

[...]
If someone who learned playing TT in China as a kid and then moves to another country as an adult (let´s say Spain, to make this realistic) and has been living in Spain for several years and would receive a Spanish passport then he STILL woudn´t be seen as Spanish and also shouldn´t be allowed to play for Spain by following that logic! No matter the passport and whatnot. Pls keep in mind that he´s been paying taxes like everyone else and also helps to develop spanish youngsters.

Now try to explain how this is not racist! Good luck with that! [...]

Ok, I got into this, so here's the explanation.

1. Who said or proposed the logic that he/she "shouldn´t be allowed to play"? Doesn't the example from my country I wrote about show otherwise? Once you are a Citizen you are a Citizen. Still with me?

2. If such situation does not happen on the overall immigration basis, but is rather an effect of a weaker training system in one's country, would it be seen as a little unfortunate - from this perspective - yes I would say. Not because the new player is from other country!!! Simply because it shows our domestic sport institutions, sort of failed to produce good players, or ... the sport itself in my country is diminishing among young generations.

3. Should we just accept the situation, appreciate the quality of new "foreign" players and just try to work harder - yes, of course - what else?

Suga, can you really not see the complexity of the situation I'm trying to explain?

 

[ttmonster]

... completely agree with Suga D on this, there is nothing complicated here , there is something called the law of the land , and if there is a law that lets you get citizenship of that country even when you are not born there , you should be able to represent that country. I know there are some laws created by certain sports bodies to put some stipulations to avoid situations where countries can just get people to immigrate and immediately having them represent that country , which still makes sense .. .but here we are talking about players like Lily and Kanak who are not even 1st generation immigrants , all of them are born and brought up in USA ...

and that comment about "American Name" is really unfortunate , its only apt that Suga took offense , there is no reason one should not , nationalism or not it just reveals the true though process of the person who used it ...

There is a reason why countries allowed immigration, and unlike most other countries , in recent history USA is a country completely built out of immigrants , at least the recent batches of immigrants can claim that they came over because of their skills instead of being adept at killing off the native population ...

most people tend to conveniently forget that throughout human history populations have moved from on place to another in search of more favorable conditions , the concept of nationalism etc is more recent history and is a convenient creation of politicians to rile up people who don't want to change their narrow ways of thinking ...

Ok, I got into this, so here's the explanation.

1. Who said or proposed the logic that he/she "shouldn´t be allowed to play"? Doesn't the example from my country I wrote about show otherwise? Once you are a Citizen you are a Citizen. Still with me?

2. If such situation does not happen on the overall immigration basis, but is rather an effect of a weaker training system in one's country, would it be seen as a little unfortunate - from this perspective - yes I would say. Not because the new player is from other country!!! Simply because it shows our domestic sport institutions, sort of failed to produce good players, or ... the sport itself in my country is diminishing among young generations.

3. Should we just accept the situation, appreciate the quality of new "foreign" players and just try to work harder - yes, of course - what else?

Suga, can you really not see the complexity of the situation I'm trying to explain in this delicate matter?

 

[jawien]

Ok ok ... TTMonster, few things since you are quoting me.

.. .but here we are talking about players like Lily and Kanak who are not even 1st generation immigrants , all of them are born and brought up in USA ...

I wasn't talking about Zhang Lily or Jha Kanak - great match today btw - or any other specific player for that matter. Pls, read Suga's comment I was referring to.

[...]and that comment about "American Name" is really unfortunate , its only apt that Suga took offense , there is no reason one should not , nationalism or not it just reveals the true though process of the person who used it ... [...]

I didn't comment a single word about american names. Far from it.

[...]
There is a reason why countries allowed immigration, and unlike most other countries , in recent history USA is a country completely built out of immigrants [...]

Of course, this is why America has a unique perspective on the immigration issues.

most people tend to conveniently forget that throughout human history populations have moved from on place to another in search of more favorable conditions , the concept of nationalism etc is more recent history and is a convenient creation of politicians to rile up people who don't want to change their narrow ways of thinking ...

Yes probably it is a time of a big migration of players from Asia to Europe. Didn't I just write that we should accept this "natural" process and try to appreciate the quality of those new players coming to us? Shouldn't we at the same time somehow still try to keep interest in the sport of young people in Europe?

That's all there is to it.

 

[TableTennisDaily]

What is Koki Niwa up to here

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[drunix80]

What is Koki Niwa up to here

Koki is so damn funny. The great thing is he is always having good fun playing the sport. That brings a lot of creativity to his game. And sometimes moments like this !!!

 

[jawien]

[...]
most people tend to conveniently forget that throughout human history populations have moved from on place to another in search of more favorable conditions , the concept of nationalism etc is more recent history and is a convenient creation of politicians to rile up people who don't want to change their narrow ways of thinking ...

One more thing (the last one probably). Say, if you have a player, you worked with for his whole life and he was competing for his country in every age category, working hard till seniors and there is this other player - also good - who came just few years ago. Wouldn't you naturally relate to the first one little more?

We all know we have to be open as a society and this is what we are trying to do. I just hope the process will be balanced somehow.

 

[ttmonster]

... I did not target you .. I was just generally responding to the conversation that was going on and why I thought Suga D was right on this one ..

I don't know about what fake superior judgment you are talking about , you cannot have any sort of protectionism , the moment you do that you will always end up with second grade performers and then becoming a prisoner of unintended consequences which again becomes a tool in the hands of the politicians .. its seen across societies and countries .. the only thing you can really do is to make sure you make better and better resources available to the players or native born competitors so that the ones with real talent can be prepared to compete and rightfully take up the positions against whosoever they have to compete with ...

One more thing (the last one probably). Say, if you have a player, you worked with for his whole life and he was competing for his country in every age category, working hard till seniors and there is this other player - also good - who came just few years ago. Wouldn't you naturally relate to the first one little more?

We all know we have to be open as a society and this is what we are trying to do. I just hope the process will be balanced somehow.
But what bugs me, is that sometimes people would like to act, like they had some sort of superior knowledge ... and pass easy judgement, without trying to understand other's and their reasons - really.

 

[Suga D]

One last thing, because we got wayyy too offtopic here.

First of all thanks to monster and those that understood why i took offense.

Jawien, your point was understood in your first comment and it's alright if you see it that way, but Michal should know better. If it was the first time this happened i probably would have reacted differently, but unfortunately it's not.

See, making stupid jokes and comments about ethnicities of people might be tolerated in the little microcosmos he's in, but you can't come to an international forum make insulting jokes and expect people to remain silent and not take offense. To think like that is rather short sighted and naive IMO.

But again: THIS is NOT the place to discuss these political views and stuff like this.
Maybe we can create a new thread for this, and one of the mods can move all the derailing comments over there to keep this thread clean.
Me and probably some more people would like to enjoy this tournament without getting to know the insensitiveness and rudeness of some people.

Thanks for understanding!

 

[yoass]

Anyone still think this kid will beat Fan Zhendong?

Yes, I think he will, in time. Will he beat FZD consistently at some point? I don't know about that. But I do think he'll beat FZD sometime in the not so distant future.

 

[NextLevel]

One more thing (the last one probably). Say, if you have a player, you worked with for his whole life and he was competing for his country in every age category, working hard till seniors and there is this other player - also good - who came just few years ago. Wouldn't you naturally relate to the first one little more?

We all know we have to be open as a society and this is what we are trying to do. I just hope the process will be balanced somehow.
But what bugs me, is that sometimes people would like to act, like they had some sort of superior knowledge ... and pass easy judgement, without trying to understand other's and their reasons - really.

Let's just say you need to know something about who you are writing to when making arguments like this. And you don't know enough about people on the internet to discuss these issues in any detail. Your positions are not unreasonable, just don't waste time trying to defend them on this forum or thread. It takes a certsain level of maturity to stick to facts and leave the politics for a more suitable forum.

 

[NextLevel]

Yes, I think he will, in time. Will he beat FZD consistently at some point? I don't know about that. But I do think he'll beat FZD sometime in the not so distant future.

Possibly. But what Pitchford also revealed was how susceptible Harimoto waa to certain patterns that Fan Zhendong executes in his sleep.

 

[Suga D]

Yeah, FZD is a beast and probably still is on another level, but this kid learns real fast.
Like to add that Pitch has played really good too, so maybe it's not so much levels as i thought but could rather be good day/bad day too.
Looking forward to what today might bring.
[Emoji2]

 

[Garrison]

LOL Koki I wonder why Rosskopf let Duda play instead of Filus against South Korea

 

[NextLevel]

LOL Koki I wonder why Rosskopf let Duda play instead of Filus against South Korea

Koreans play chop too well.

 

[jawien]

Let's just say you need to know something about who you are writing to when making arguments like this. And you don't know enough about people on the internet to discuss these issues in any detail. Your positions are not unreasonable, just don't waste time trying to defend them on this forum or thread. It takes a certsain level of maturity to stick to facts and leave the politics for a more suitable forum.

Sure you are right NextLevel. I usually try to defend people but this time before I knew it I got into the argument with Suga and it's never good for the discussion. Sorry about that.

Actually I dare to think Michal might be better off if I wasn't trying to defend him so much. It's just that I think I live quite close to his "microcosmos" and ... well the rest of the story.

Anyway, let's just keep this thread clean for proper comments.

 

[TableTennisDaily]

Men's Team: China vs France (Group stages)

Match 1: Ma Long/Xu Xin vs E.Lebesson/Alexandre Cassin

Match 2: Ma Long vs Emmanuel Lebesson

Match 3: Fan Zhendong vs Quentin Robinot

 

[TableTennisDaily]

Great win for USA's Kanak Jha!

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[v100ev]

Some weird sound right now on the itTV translation for me