This user has no status.
World Tour Grand Finals 2015
- Thread starter TableTennisDaily
- Start date
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
This user has no status.
Member
Wow, on the edge of my seat.. absolutely amazing performance from both players.. what a match! Congrats to Ma Long.
This user has no status.
Chole Chole Chole Chole Chole
This time avoiding a neck Injury, Ma long deserves it. Fan is on the run for the money
This time avoiding a neck Injury, Ma long deserves it. Fan is on the run for the money
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
This user has no status.
Member
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
the last point was for a table tennis lecture. ma setting a trap to fan pinning him on the BH side and patiently waiting for a bad attack to counter it. in the slow mo you could see ml always getting ready for a FH exchange and then switching to a slow BH block landing low and near the net as possible to prevent a strong attack.
fan is actually choking like ma long did in his early age. he could have won 4-2 but he just couldnt adapt to the serve changes and made many unforced errors
fan is actually choking like ma long did in his early age. he could have won 4-2 but he just couldnt adapt to the serve changes and made many unforced errors
says
TTD Team vs Pongfinity OUT NOW on our YT Channel
says
TTD Team vs Pongfinity OUT NOW on our YT Channel
Well-Known Member
Administrator
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
A notable thing is that this FZD is sooo much closer than before on the international arena.
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
What a great match. It looked like FZD was in control and Ma was super tired. He even admitted it in the post interview. I think that if Ma was 100% refreshed, the game wouldn't have gone to 7.
If you look at how Samsanov was playing Xu Xin, the creativity and unpredictability that he showed is probably the only way you are going to beat Ma Long. If you go Dima's way and try to out-power and out-attack....you aren't going to slay the dragon.
If you look at how Samsanov was playing Xu Xin, the creativity and unpredictability that he showed is probably the only way you are going to beat Ma Long. If you go Dima's way and try to out-power and out-attack....you aren't going to slay the dragon.
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Actually dima is really bad at fast topspin exchanges. He always gets out of balance and has slow recovery, changing the pace is a good way to win against the chinese, kallberg and fegerl didnt win with explosive game.. the chinese are far better in this field. He struggles against mizutani who is smarter than him in serve and receive but fails to defend dima's strong attacks
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Hey TTFrenzy,
would you be so kind to explain the trap part to me? As for now, I can't really see the "trap"
Furthermore, in my eyes blocking from way behind "as near as possible to the net" is a almost deadly mistake. You'd rather want to get the ball as far as possible out towards the baseline, so the opponent can't outplay you by hitting a very wide ball with an big angle.
And if we are talking about the the ifs and coulds, then we would have to add, that ML could've won the 3rd set 12:10 and then the game would've maybe been different, with a 3:0 lead for ML. Nobody knows, since it didn't happen. And speculation is a very slippery road
Another big part in this match was ML's Backhand. (By that, I mean close to the table BHs and not those rippers from far behind
) In the last set, after the FZD time out, he played them with much more commitment, while he hesitated and struggled playing them in the sets before.It seems to me like I am disagreeing with you on every single point, although this isn't necessarily bad or a problem. Since a disagreement is the very basis of a discussion forum.
Although, as I'm reading your post again I do agree with you, that ML change his serves and that FZD had to find new answers. But somewhere you said that ML changed his serves in the 5th set and that it would've been too late. I'm afraid we see things differently again
ML tried different serves in the end of set 3 and in set 4 quite some variation as well. (He even tried BH serves).But we are talking very high level here. Especially talking about the variation and adaption, which ML can achieve. I see this as one of his great strengths. ZJK and especially, especially Timo Boll come to mind, when thinking about still active players who can adjust as well to (even temporary) strengths and weaknesses of opponents. (Keep in mind, that under the influence stress and pressure the ability gets affected, that is why I never rule out ZJK or Timo Boll even when they are performing way below their level. They deeply earn my respect).
One more thing: FZD did make "a lot" of unforced errors, but "a lot" is relative. Naturally FZD makes more unforced errors than his opponent, since he plays very very very high risk shots and plays spectacularly offensive table tennis like there is no tomorrow after the end of the day! For a extreme example take Joo Sae Hyuk. While FZD may still win a lot of games despite having more unforced errors than his opponent, JSH will lose a lot of games despite having less errors.
Oh god, I have spent way more time on this, than I wanted
I really have gone to sleep a while ago.I hope no goon squad or the likes will come and put me to sleep. I know some members of them are between us, so please put in a good word for me friends
Cheers,
BLUE
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Looking at those comments I found out you forget (or maybe dont see) one big thing.
The tactics outcome from obvious things.. And that is - FZD is much better at counter attack than the first attack. And for Ma Long is much better to attack FZD´s first attack than to produce his first attack and then cope to counter attack from FZD.
That is why Ma Long in the 6th set played few long pushes into FZD body and then invited the first attack to use it for his good. Also the openings of FZD into Ma´s serves, Ma was mostly ready for it and countered it!
The difference is when Ma Long´s first attack is not as good, FZD gets into the rally and mostly he wins. That is why Ma Long needs to get weak attack from FZD and then produce deadly counter attack. Funny thing became in the beginning of 7th game, when FZD used this on Ma Long. 2 long pushes and once Ma Long spinned it back with backhand - what concluded into deadly counter attack from FZD. The second Ma Long wanted to play with FH and missed the ball. But then FZD changed this, dont know why.
In the beginning of the final game, Ma Long let FZD to attack first, but missed the counter. That was the first point for FZD. Then at 2:1 for Ma, FZD hit the ball with finger and Ma missed awkward ball. It was 2:2 with FZD getting 3 lucky elements. Then FZD long push to Ma BH, getting point with huge counter. Then second long push and Ma missed the ball. 4:2 for FZD, Ma Long serving. First fast long serve, but FZD equal to it and Ma failed to block with BH. Ma Long let FZD to attack and wanted to point with counter, but FZD was too keen this time. And it was 6:2 FZD. Next point Ma Long pushes and invites the attack of FZD. That goes to the time out. After the time out FZD tryed to use same tactics against Ma Long, but his long push was not as good and Ma was ready for it and got the point after huge rally. At 6:4, Ma invited BH opening of FZD to his favour twice. FZD was loosing ground under his feet at 6:6. He was so close!
In my opinion, he should serve topspin serve but he went for underspin, got push and Ma Long used his attack once again to his favour. Next point neither of those went for the opening topspin and FZD missed FH flick. At 8:6 Ma again waited for BH opening of FZD once again. Maybe FZD should try to play into the FH side. Then at 9:6 FZD was already really desperate. Wanted to push and get opportunity to counterattack, therefore Ma Long expecting that didnt serve underspin and got a high ball. 4 matchpoints for Ma.
FZD already had nothing to lose, Ma Long played still his tactics, trying to get weak attack from FZD using long push. First the BH was too strong, second he tryed to go for his own attack, which didnt work. Then Ma Long got again the opening from FZD, but this time it concluded into a rally where FZD came out with a point and at 10:9 I was (with many other) already at the edge of the seat. Last rally FZD again went for his bh flick and Ma didnt attack it, which immediately got him under pressure. But blocked to the bh, more and more, untill he got courage to counter.
So, long push - counter attack tactics - Ma Long used it in last game 8 times, getting 5 points. He lost 3 points of this tactics, but once he was unlucky after FZD hitting with finger and second time he lost the rally. So it is pretty good tactics. Also he has to be ready for FZD opening BH and if he can cope with that, FZD has nothing to do to beat him..
So thats it from me, maybe even someone read that, lol..
The tactics outcome from obvious things.. And that is - FZD is much better at counter attack than the first attack. And for Ma Long is much better to attack FZD´s first attack than to produce his first attack and then cope to counter attack from FZD.
That is why Ma Long in the 6th set played few long pushes into FZD body and then invited the first attack to use it for his good. Also the openings of FZD into Ma´s serves, Ma was mostly ready for it and countered it!
The difference is when Ma Long´s first attack is not as good, FZD gets into the rally and mostly he wins. That is why Ma Long needs to get weak attack from FZD and then produce deadly counter attack. Funny thing became in the beginning of 7th game, when FZD used this on Ma Long. 2 long pushes and once Ma Long spinned it back with backhand - what concluded into deadly counter attack from FZD. The second Ma Long wanted to play with FH and missed the ball. But then FZD changed this, dont know why.
In the beginning of the final game, Ma Long let FZD to attack first, but missed the counter. That was the first point for FZD. Then at 2:1 for Ma, FZD hit the ball with finger and Ma missed awkward ball. It was 2:2 with FZD getting 3 lucky elements. Then FZD long push to Ma BH, getting point with huge counter. Then second long push and Ma missed the ball. 4:2 for FZD, Ma Long serving. First fast long serve, but FZD equal to it and Ma failed to block with BH. Ma Long let FZD to attack and wanted to point with counter, but FZD was too keen this time. And it was 6:2 FZD. Next point Ma Long pushes and invites the attack of FZD. That goes to the time out. After the time out FZD tryed to use same tactics against Ma Long, but his long push was not as good and Ma was ready for it and got the point after huge rally. At 6:4, Ma invited BH opening of FZD to his favour twice. FZD was loosing ground under his feet at 6:6. He was so close!
In my opinion, he should serve topspin serve but he went for underspin, got push and Ma Long used his attack once again to his favour. Next point neither of those went for the opening topspin and FZD missed FH flick. At 8:6 Ma again waited for BH opening of FZD once again. Maybe FZD should try to play into the FH side. Then at 9:6 FZD was already really desperate. Wanted to push and get opportunity to counterattack, therefore Ma Long expecting that didnt serve underspin and got a high ball. 4 matchpoints for Ma.
FZD already had nothing to lose, Ma Long played still his tactics, trying to get weak attack from FZD using long push. First the BH was too strong, second he tryed to go for his own attack, which didnt work. Then Ma Long got again the opening from FZD, but this time it concluded into a rally where FZD came out with a point and at 10:9 I was (with many other) already at the edge of the seat. Last rally FZD again went for his bh flick and Ma didnt attack it, which immediately got him under pressure. But blocked to the bh, more and more, untill he got courage to counter.
So, long push - counter attack tactics - Ma Long used it in last game 8 times, getting 5 points. He lost 3 points of this tactics, but once he was unlucky after FZD hitting with finger and second time he lost the rally. So it is pretty good tactics. Also he has to be ready for FZD opening BH and if he can cope with that, FZD has nothing to do to beat him..
So thats it from me, maybe even someone read that, lol..
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Zhang Jike won a grand slam, but not sure if he won a grand final too, now Ma Long only needs to win the olympics then he will be the best in history, even better than ZJK himself.
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Hey TTFrenzy,
would you be so kind to explain the trap part to me? As for now, I can't really see the "trap"
Furthermore, in my eyes blocking from way behind "as near as possible to the net" is a almost deadly mistake. You'd rather want to get the ball as far as possible out towards the baseline, so the opponent can't outplay you by hitting a very wide ball with an big angle.
And if we are talking about the the ifs and coulds, then we would have to add, that ML could've won the 3rd set 12:10 and then the game would've maybe been different, with a 3:0 lead for ML. Nobody knows, since it didn't happen. And speculation is a very slippery road
Another big part in this match was ML's Backhand. (By that, I mean close to the table BHs and not those rippers from far behind
It seems to me like I am disagreeing with you on every single point, although this isn't necessarily bad or a problem. Since a disagreement is the very basis of a discussion forum.
Although, as I'm reading your post again I do agree with you, that ML change his serves and that FZD had to find new answers. But somewhere you said that ML changed his serves in the 5th set and that it would've been too late. I'm afraid we see things differently again
But we are talking very high level here. Especially talking about the variation and adaption, which ML can achieve. I see this as one of his great strengths. ZJK and especially, especially Timo Boll come to mind, when thinking about still active players who can adjust as well to (even temporary) strengths and weaknesses of opponents. (Keep in mind, that under the influence stress and pressure the ability gets affected, that is why I never rule out ZJK or Timo Boll even when they are performing way below their level. They deeply earn my respect).
One more thing: FZD did make "a lot" of unforced errors, but "a lot" is relative. Naturally FZD makes more unforced errors than his opponent, since he plays very very very high risk shots and plays spectacularly offensive table tennis like there is no tomorrow after the end of the day! For a extreme example take Joo Sae Hyuk. While FZD may still win a lot of games despite having more unforced errors than his opponent, JSH will lose a lot of games despite having less errors.
Oh god, I have spent way more time on this, than I wanted
I hope no goon squad or the likes will come and put me to sleep. I know some members of them are between us, so please put in a good word for me friends
Cheers,
BLUE
I explained the trap, I dont know what you didnt understand
Blocking near the endline is not viable for ma long cause his bh block is not so good near the table and its risky. The weak points for every player is blocking near the endline as you said, and as close to the net with a "fading" ball with low bounce as possible (which is not a "deadly" mistake if you know how to do it). That is what ma long did and it was the 2nd best and safest option. He even added a bit of sidespin to curve the ball down.
Fast block does not work against FZD, FZD is maybe the best in the world right now in fast topspping exchanges because of his overall body strength & balance, varying the speed tempo and trajectory of block is what creates problems against him . Most of the time FZD makes mistakes when the tempo varies.
one fast block he kills it second fast block he kills it, 3rd slow block he misses, this scenarion has happened many times against ml and zjk also. Ma long knew that and constantly took advantage of it, slow blocks, wait for a FH kill, slow block again, that was the trap and ML patiently waited for BAD attack from fan to kill it back.
Similar threads
