Receiving Deceptive Serves

[JeffM]

Hi guys, I have a basic understanding on receiving serves, like watching the point of contact on the basic more obvious serves. However, there is this particular player (shakehand) at our club that is very skilled in producing deceptive serves. It is giving me a lot of problems, because he serves short, with a variation of back spin and top spin. The deception area that he uses include adding a motion after the contact of the ball, and the stomp of the foot. He varies topspin, no spin, and backspin, so if I cant read it, the ball will go really high or into the net. Do people always contact the ball when they stomp the foot? If not, would people stomp the foot before contacting the ball or after contacting the ball to add deception to the serve? If so, what tips can you give me in trying to read the serve? Should I try to avoid listening to the stomp since it will add confusion to myself?

Thanks for the help!

 

[izra]

just try to look at his bat AT THE MOMENT OF CONTACT and search for slight differences. there are tips for dealing with serves once you know what kind of spin is on the ball, but there is no trick or easy fix when it comes to recognizing the spin. focus, watch the contact and with time you will get better.

 

[Ilia Minkin]

The best thing you can do is to ask that guy to practice and serve a lot of those serves to you. You can also try to watch the flight of the ball and the bounce, if the spin is heavy, you'll get a hint. On no-spin you can try to spot the logo, if it is visible, it is certainly no-spin. This trick really works. But anyway, it all requires lots and lots of practice, so go and ask that guy to practice with you.

Some people feel uncomfortable asking to serve to them, thinking that the other persion will avoid this practice to not let somebody to get used to their serve. Especially if you play in the same league. Some people are like that, but most are nice and friendly, so go ahead and ask him to serve.

 

[izra]

true, if he is switching between topspin and backspin and you just can't spot the difference in the motion you can resort to watching the bounce of the ball on your side. if it's slowing down it's backspin, if it's kicking towards you a bit it's topspin.

 

[JeffM]

Thanks guys. Yeah he is one that doesn't want to tell me how to receive it, so I guess I will follow your advice and hope that I can recognize it over time when I play him in matches. What if it is no spin and backspin? Would the difference in the flight of the ball sufficient to spot the difference?

 

[Der_Echte]

Agree with both the new poster and Irza, it can be tough but we gotta fight through learning how to watch bounce of ball and the other clues. Takes a while to develop and improve it.

 

[Kokain]

I read somewhere the best thing to do is have one serve return where you just put a dead bat in there and watch what happens with the ball. Congratulations you now have figured what happens and where the ball is gonna go. +/- the difference of how much spin he managed to load during that serve and just adjust accordingly.
Oh yeah and one more thing. Keep in mind where you take his serve from. Highest point will be more spiny but off the bounce you can eliminate some of this phenomen and return it easily. Loose wrist to absorb the power to return it near the net, or sometimes even not completely miss the table.

 

[Ilia Minkin]

What if it is no spin and backspin? Would the difference in the flight of the ball sufficient to spot the difference?

It can be tricky, but as I said before, you can literally see no-spin by watching the logo. You can even get used to it by practicing on your own: serve heavy backspin and watch the logo, then serve no-spin and watch the logo again. After a while you will pick up the difference automatically.

 

[NextLevel]

Learn to serve different spins then learn to serve with some deception. You can't understand deception unless you can create some of it. And understanding the racket angles and contacts required to return serves is helped by understanding the racket angles and contacts used to create them.

 

[TTFrenzy]

Do not look at the bat. look always at the ball and focus on the contact point AT THE BALL during the moment of contact. Everything else is done by peripheral vision

Most players get confused because theyu look at the bat and they make mistakes. This is common when a server uses very deceptive follow through.

Another thing you can do for training is play with your back facing the server and after you hear the sound of contact you turn around and play the receive. You can test your hearing ability and spin judgment by this exercise. Ask the server to serve between heavy underspin and no spin variations, you will realize that hearing the spin is much more important and easy to determine than just watching the moment of contact

Dont try to close your eyes and open them, it is much better if you turn around, it also improves reflexes

 

[izra]

on the other hand looking at the ball only will create problems when facing high toss serves...

 

[TTFrenzy]

on the other hand looking at the ball only will create problems when facing high toss serves...

That is correct On high toss serves, you look at the ball on its highest point and then focus on the dropping point. If you follow the path of the ball on a high toss serve you may get out of rhythm or get confused. Its difficult on the beginning but once you manage it, you will be able to receive the serve like every other serve. High toss serves are tricky because some players find it difficult to adjust to the "slower" tempo of the ball, most servers get up and then down with their body and synchronize perfectly with the ball so its easy for the receiver to synchronize also

 

[JeffM]

Thanks a lot guys! I will keep trying

 

[Baal]

Lots of good advice. I especially want to echo NL, since by learning to be tricky you sort of learn what to watch for.

Here is the bright side of the situation.

You are actually lucky to have someone with very tricky serves so you can learn to return by watching trajectory, racket-ball contact, and other cues. When you watch racket-ball contact make sure to watch where on the racket the ball hits. Eventually you will will see that this can tell you at least a hint as to how much spin there is. Make sure to not hold the racket too tight.

Serving is without question the strongest part of my game. I got there because I was getting eaten alive by people with good serves (back in hidden era) and I worked at it really hard, and got a lot of coaching on serving. One day it sort of clicked.

Forget the stomp. That is not why he is fooling you.

 

[NextLevel]

I actually disagree on watching the ball - I think watching the ball is actually a waste of time until after it is struck. And if you only watch the ball, you will be unable to take the ball early when the spin is obvious. Start by watching the racket because at some point the ball is going to hit it and it is where in the racket path the ball makes contact that determines the spin. This is for pendulum action serves.

The other thing is to note what hemisphere the ball is contacted on and the racket direction when that hempishere is contacted. But unless you actually serve, and try to reproduce some of these tricks, you will find it hard to use the information.

My last advice is that when you can't read the spin, try to learn to return the ball later than you usually would. This is the hardest one for me as I do not have any strokes for returning the ball late. But just when I am about to touch the ball, the topspin kick reveals itself and I see it, and I have nothing to use as an adjustment tool... but if you take the ball later, while your return will be less aggressive, it gives you more time to see what is on the ball and return it safely. IT's the reason why long and lazy serves (half long but come well off the table) are bad because you have so much time to read the ball and let the ball kick and let the spin wear off before making your opponent look like an idiot.

 

[Baal]

I agree with NL on last post also. He makes not just one but two very important points. One top player once told me you sometimes have to be patient on service return for the ball to "reveal itself" and then you can know what to do. It took me a long time to figure out what he meant. Also, you have to watch the ball when it hits the paddle and after it leaves. I look to see where the server is tossing the ball, more or less, and then switch my eyes on his paddle to watch contact and what happens after. If the ball is hidden by the player's head part of the way down, I would not know or care. I am focused on contact with blade and what happens after that.

 

[Suga D]

I think both is right, just watching the ball can be dangerous on fast and spinny serves, but just watching the racket movement can also mislead you if you face guys like Brett Clarke who know how to serve very deceiptive.
His snakeserve is lookin' like a reverse pendulum but has the spin of a pendulum serve. So just watching the racket movement can give you serious problems as well.

But learning to serve deceiptive for yourself can really do the trick.

Just remember:

your serve is the only stroke you make that isn't being influenced by your opponent.

 

[TTFrenzy]

Please define watching the ball vs watching the racket .

Focus is much easier when your eyes are on the ball, then at moment of contact you combine where the ball is hitted with the sound, like taking a picture/snapshot at moment of contact. Peripheral vision does the rest, focusing primarily at the paddle is more dangerous because of the deceptive motion. We need to identify the spin on the ball, watching the spot of the paddle which is hitted by the ball, again may cause confusion

When you learn how to focus with eyes + ears you wont have to worry about the trajectory cause it will be predictable in the first place, of course there is no perfect method, it mostly depends on adapting in the server's spin and tempo of serving.

Now about the "taking the ball early" , since you know with eyes and ears how much spin and speed is on the ball by identifying moment of contact, taking the ball early mostly depends on how you have adapted and predicted what the server is going to do not on where you focus on. Focusing on the ball all the time is better whether you want to play it early off the bounce, highest point or dropping point.

When you just focus on that white thingy you dont have to worry about before or after moment of contact, its a constant feeling, all animals by "default" have the ability to identify the trajectory (and landing spots) of a flying object and of course get better at it through constant practice/environment. I think even modern science hasnt reached a safe conclusion on how this phenomenon takes place.

 

[TTFrenzy]

I agree with NL on last post also. He makes not just one but two very important points. One top player once told me you sometimes have to be patient on service return for the ball to "reveal itself" and then you can know what to do. It took me a long time to figure out what he meant. Also, you have to watch the ball when it hits the paddle and after it leaves. I look to see where the server is tossing the ball, more or less, and then switch my eyes on his paddle to watch contact and what happens after. If the ball is hidden by the player's head part of the way down, I would not know or care. I am focused on contact with blade and what happens after that.

Yeap the first bold is really good advice especially when you find it difficult to identify the spin/trajectory during the moment of contact and let the ball come to you instead of taking it very early. Id you are lucky enough you can maybe see the stamp and adjust the paddle angle

Now for the 2nd bold, people who watch the ball all the time during a high toss serve get confused because there is a sudden "dissapear-appear" situation when the ball is passing behind the head of the server

 

[NextLevel]

Please define watching the ball vs watching the racket .

Focus is much easier when your eyes are on the ball, then at moment of contact you combine where the ball is hitted with the sound, like taking a picture/snapshot at moment of contact. Peripheral vision does the rest, focusing primarily at the paddle is more dangerous because of the deceptive motion. We need to identify the spin on the ball, watching the spot of the paddle which is hitted by the ball, again may cause confusion

When you learn how to focus with eyes + ears you wont have to worry about the trajectory cause it will be predictable in the first place, of course there is no perfect method, it mostly depends on adapting in the server's spin and tempo of serving.

Now about the "taking the ball early" , since you know with eyes and ears how much spin and speed is on the ball by identifying moment of contact, taking the ball early mostly depends on how you have adapted and predicted what the server is going to do not on where you focus on. Focusing on the ball all the time is better whether you want to play it early off the bounce, highest point or dropping point.

When you just focus on that white thingy you dont have to worry about before or after moment of contact, its a constant feeling, all animals by "default" have the ability to identify the trajectory (and landing spots) of a flying object and of course get better at it through constant practice/environment. I think even modern science hasnt reached a safe conclusion on how this phenomenon takes place.

Watching the ball is to use your eyes to track the ball when tossed. Watching the racket is to keep your focus on the racket even when the ball is tossed upwards and shifting to the ball upon impact.

Even when someone is doing deceptive stuff with the racket, the most important thing is to not miss the moment of impact. My point is that watching the ball makes it harder to know the path at which the racket was moving through when it hit the ball, and that path is important for reading the spin.

We all do this differently and unless we actually put trackers in people's eyes, people can always think they are doing one thing and really doing another. That said, I have found my service return and ball reading, which is a major weakness, to improve when I watch where the racket starts and follow it from there. Try it sometime.

IT's also the same thing I try to do during multiball or rallies. After I hit the ball, I shift my attention to my opponent's racket because the information on what he wants to do to the ball is there.

Of course, after the moment of impact, the attention shifts to the ball. But my point is that starting attention at the racket then shifting to the ball is better than keeping attention on the ball. But we all do this differently - I am just presenting what someone who returns serves very well told me and which has helped me a lot.