Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Boogar]

Today I had some great practice and games after. I was leading 8:2 in the fifth set against a 1800-1900 player. And then I did an errant step. I couldn't put any weight on my foot and lost the game 8:11

One exercise was especially cool. Short backspin to the forehand side gets pushed back long into the backhand. You loop it with the BH crosscourt, he blocks it to your forehand and you finish it with an aggressive FH top spin.

My backhand loops felt good today i was very happy with its spin and placement.

On a side note: Somehow when ever i'm not comfortable with my forehand(atm i have problems with the finishing position and throw) my backhands gets so much better, because i need to rely on it. Do you have similar experiences?

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Archo,

Although what you say is generally true for anything - over time the body will adapt and overcome .... HOWEVER ...

Please understand that when i was very active in table tennis over 30 yrs ago, i was used to the weight of a single sheet, then 30 yrs of working with computers and keyboards, i may or may not have CTS developing. Having played a little over a year now, it was a single sheet.

So playing for 2 nights with a 2nd sheet may not be enough time to adjust to the extra weight and let the body adapt and overcome, feeling some discomfort in my hand/grip is NOT something i want to ignore or deal with. As it is, at my 51 yrs of age, i take no aspirin/painkiller, it takes longer for my body to recover from the TT exercise of 2-3 hrs a night at 2-3x a week. I generally am always achy all over my body. I drink water, cool down light stretching, etc. but realistically at 51, it takes my body longer to 'reset' and feel 100%. That kind of discomfort/aches I'm ok with dealing/ignoring, but for my hand/grip, i don't want to risk it.

I'm playing partly for Fun, partly for Exercise, and partly for Self-Perfection. Only competing with myself and accepted that I can only go so far in skill/level playing the oldschool penholder style. Would it be great if i reach 2000? Sure, but I'm not going to be participating in tournaments. It is all about the Journey and not the Destination for me.

I'm ok indefinitely NOT embracing the modern PH style. But one day I will and you can expect a novella-length post on this thread detailing it

Very truly yours in TT,

~osph

 

[Archosaurus]

OSPH, that's a good point. However I only offered what I can talk about: I will get back to you when I start my mid-life crisis.


It's a very good point indeed. I would very much so want to play the modern RPB style, but I am not doing so because I don't want to injure my wrist. With the weight of the racket and no coach, it's a real issue over the long term. Even enough to overcome my stubbornness.

You play TPB, so it's somewhat more limited to my understanding, but the weight is still there. You do what is best for you.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Unless I'm not getting you... er, no, the weight is NOT there with TPB as it's a single rubber. With modern PH, it's 2 rubbers and the weight IS there.

Re: mid-life crisis ...

"The years teach much which the days never know."
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

I'm looking at the videos of myself and never realize i have a bald spot in the back of my head!

 

[NextLevel]

Unless I'm not getting you... er, no, the weight is NOT there with TPB as it's a single rubber. With modern PH, it's 2 rubbers and the weight IS there.

Re: mid-life crisis ...

"The years teach much which the days never know."
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

I'm looking at the videos of myself and never realize i have a bald spot in the back of my head!

Stick a lighter pips on your backhand side and you might even use that for your forehand if you prefer it. There is no reason to go double inverted coming from a light one-sided penhold.

 

[Archosaurus]

OSPH, you can play TPB with two rubbers or just one rubber, can't you? One is the hitting sheet, one is to add mass and protect the blade or whatever.

I've always been under the impression that TPB/RPB are a style thing, not an equipment thing. So you're playing TPB, with two sheets. The weight IS there.


However what NL said makes sense: why even go heavy if you just need *something* there?

 

[Boogar]

OSPH, you can play TPB with two rubbers or just one rubber, can't you? One is the hitting sheet, one is to add mass and protect the blade or whatever.

I've always been under the impression that TPB/RPB are a style thing, not an equipment thing. So you're playing TPB, with two sheets. The weight IS there.


However what NL said makes sense: why even go heavy if you just need *something* there?

?? I dont really get your post. Normally classic PH only have one rubber on the paddle. The other side is just painted.

 

[Archosaurus]

?? I dont really get your post. Normally classic PH only have one rubber on the paddle. The other side is just painted.

Yes. However OSPH is playing with two rubbers on his blade, but he's not a RPB:er.

So what does that make him? A RPB:er because he has two rubbers on his blade? He doesn't twiddle and doesn't have a bat for it, so he's not a penhold twiddler either.

 

[Boogar]

Yes. However OSPH is playing with two rubbers on his blade, but he's not a RPB:er.

So what does that make him? A RPB:er because he has two rubbers on his blade? He doesn't twiddle and doesn't have a bat for it, so he's not a penhold twiddler either.

Well with his new racket yes... But he used to play with just one rubber if i have read it right. So its normal that the weight is confusing him.

 

[NextLevel]

Well with his new racket yes... But he used to play with just one rubber if i have read it right. So its normal that the weight is confusing him.

He switched from one sided to two sided but the problem is that the blade one-sided is a bit light. Most one-sided PH blades are heavier, so he is trying to find a balance between the weight of a one-sided blade supposed to be two-sided and his own personal preferences.

 

[Boogar]

He switched from one sided to two sided but the problem is that the blade one-sided is a bit light. Most one-sided PH blades are heavier, so he is trying to find a balance between the weight of a one-sided blade supposed to be two-sided and his own personal preferences.

Ah i See, now i understand

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Stick a lighter pips on your backhand side and you might even use that for your forehand if you prefer it. There is no reason to go double inverted coming from a light one-sided penhold.

I may put long pips as Der suggested in his nyc thread or I may put short pips and go back to my roots lol

the short pips may be my fh and I go the Liu Guo Liang way and embrace the modern ph style

Or just use one side with the other to give it weight, but 2 inverted is too heavy for me now

My intent is to only play one sided indefinitely but due to light blade, I will put on a ND rubber to try out. 2nd inverted is too heavy, will probably try short pips as that affords me the option to try pips again... as NL noted, I may just be better off playing pips as 75% or more of my style is pups-like.

Archo, I misread TPB as TPH ... I have no backhand, 1 in 10,000 backhands would make it ... why I gave up ages ago on pips cos I have no.BH... I rather punch than BH

Thank NL, Archo and Boogar!

 

[Archosaurus]

OSPH, I know that you're technically playing forehand all table as a traditional penholder, but I've always thought of the punch as a "backhand stroke". The motion is similar to an RPB or shakehand backhand, after all. The mechanics are there.

Is it incorrect to refer it to as such?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

OSPH, I know that you're technically playing forehand all table as a traditional penholder, but I've always thought of the punch as a "backhand stroke". The motion is similar to an RPB or shakehand backhand, after all. The mechanics are there.

Is it incorrect to refer it to as such?

Yep. That is as incorrect as it gets.

The arm position for a TPB punch is as different from a shakehand BH as it gets and as different from an RPB as it gets.


To start with the forearm position to turn the blade face closed for a TPB punch is pronounced supination of the forearm. An RPB requires a mild pronation of the forearm that would likely feel totally alien to OSPH. The second thing is that an RPB takes a stroke. Where as the TPB is punch.

This distinction is similar to what I showed in that shadow video of pushing forward vs stroke.

A punch moves straight forward. A stroke has a circular movement.

But, I have to be honest, having seen OldSchool play and understanding that that TPB is ingrained in his system, I doubt that he should even bother with RPB.

1) his BH Punch Block is awesome.
2) his arm is wired to that contortion that makes the TPB possible.

I have a feeling trying to learn RPB would mess him up. That if he wanted a fruitful experiment working on Shakehand to improve his Penhold skills would probably be more useful.


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[JeffM]

Last night's AAR - no video

QUESTIONS

1) Does playing without a 2nd rubber affect the wood/carbon adversely?

2) Playing without a 2nd rubber produces a lot of vibration, which I will get used to in time. Without the 2nd rubber, I felt like I've been playing with the Amazon/MX-P forever, meaning, i play well with it.

3) I probably won't be embracing the RPB any time soon (sorry JeffM!), still trying to get my oldschool game consistent. If I absolutely need to put on a 2nd rubber mostly for weight and/or preserving the blade, any reco's for a lesser weighted rubber than the H3 with an eye at eventually trying the RPB, but just not anytime soon?

Thank you in advance.

Hey OSP,

1) I have wondered about that question when I got a new bat a year ago but my backhand rubber hasn't arrived. The sweat from your hand can directly come into contact with the wood. While if you leave the bat in open air after playing, the sweat will evaporate, you can potentially have some finger markings, which might be cool xD

3) No worries Si-hing! Im not sure about the rubbers, so I won't give any recommendations.

Have a nice day!

 

[laistrogian]

NL, this is a short term concern of mine. What I am doing to play him seems dumb and counter-intuitive.

However I'm sure that once my game improves, and I can start doing full swings more often and moving to the ball more often, I won't have the problems I have now. Somehow I have that feeling: because I feel like I'm mostly technically limited, not strategically. I am 100% sure that if my backhand flick/flip was better, and I could get a real loop in on all his shots that aren't stellar, I would have no problems at all. Even at my current max shot quality.

In other words, if I was better, I'd not be asking this. I would have no problem with his shots.


However penholders are new to me. So I am interested, maybe I can do better in the short term with a better strategy.


I agree 100% that it's a bad idea to focus on strategy in my position, because there is a point where better players will just beat you simply because their game standard is much higher. No matter what ideal strategy you do, your game will not support it. Is this right?

@OldSchoolPenholder

Yes, I am talking about the flick.

I win most my points on my serve. He cannot punch my serve: at least not over the net or on the table. He can't step around either and hit it hard. He plays it short or safe. Unless of course I screw up my serve: but that's another thing.

Generally I will try to loop his serve or flick it. He can punch those, or block them unless I really place it well which is very risky. We are about even by the time he gets his 3rd ball in, but his punches and eventual forehand finisher put pressure on me.

I have tried to counter his game by playing a backspin game, with pushes and redirecting his punches. Sometimes I will place it short on the table, or very long on the endline, or push it pretty flat very deep. This is mostly hit and miss: I am not totally comfortable playing like this.

I was 10-8 and I actually just "backspin punched" back his topspin serve and he netted it with his forehand because it was a surprise.


Now that I think about this, NL has a great point. I am already about the same level of performance with him: win some lose some mostly even. We have mutual respect and it's fun.

I think maybe if I just do what I am doing now, but do it technically better with more confidence and "pop", I will improve better than trying to play an alternative strategy.

What you are saying or typed above just sounds like a complete bullshit.

If you are just trying to play this sports for fun, go ahead by all means keep playing the way you've been playing but if you are trying to improve, stop talking and doing things like sidespin pendulum serve, backhand flick, heck even looping.

Get 100 balls, a partner who's willing to feed or wants to get better as well, go to pingskills or TTedge or the other myriad of online table tennis coaching videos and learn how to do forehand counter-drive. Do a lot of shadow stroke and real time practice. Go to backhand counter-drive, forehand push, backhand push. Then you can start learning about looping.

For someone who goes into all these details about serving, backhand flick, looping and even try to give suggestion to other people, your game is just shit.

You keep posting about stuffs as if you really understand about it but most likely you don't. What you ended up doing is just posting white noise that annoys a lot of people

 

[laistrogian]

A question for people who are good with quick, straight, dead ball or slight top spin serve: I've been trying to do my own version of ML's of down the line quick serve but I've been hitting the net or going over the table a lot. What i still don't quite get is where should I try to get the ball bounce on my side. As close to the net as possible (without hitting the net ofc) or closer to the server's side of the table?

 

[Der_Echte]

Lst... if you want a fast deep serve, regardless of spin, you should land the ball on your side as close to the end line as possible.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

A question for people who are good with quick, straight, dead ball or slight top spin serve: I've been trying to do my own version of ML's of down the line quick serve but I've been hitting the net or going over the table a lot. What i still don't quite get is where should I try to get the ball bounce on my side. As close to the net as possible (without hitting the net ofc) or closer to the server's side of the table?

If it is a fast, long serve, then as close to the white line on your side as possible. Doesn't matter what spin, for a fast serve, the bounce on your side should be near the edge and the bounce on the other side should also be as near the white line (and the edge) on the other side as possible.


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[Der_Echte]

Tonite Smash TTC Coach asked me to come over and play vs a player he calls second best player in club (which means only coach is better).

I go over, watch his one hour lesson.

Dude cannot serve a short serve to save his life, looks like a 1200 level player serving.

Dude has no short touch or BH flip, everything wrong, way under developed, looks 1200 or lower.

Coach says he is higher level than me.

The only thing that makes sense (coach doesn't tell tall tales or lie) is Dude must have an awesome rally game and excellent touch and consistent under pressure.

Well, I lost three straight matches vs him and it is certainly the last three...

Except Dude's grip pressure at impact is WAY different that what it appears. Except for his big FH topspin vs underspin, ALL his shots are way different. he impacts out of zone, off time, yet the bal is way different. I think he is simply inefficent on any shot except the big FH vs underspin and his grip pressure must be real soft at impact.

That ball comes off his bat so damned different than what it looks like... i mean REALLY different it is like a time warp.

Dude is like a version of Richard Dewitt, except he can move and make an offensive FH that never misses.

After speaking with him I see what it is, he never had coaching until now for 30 years and somehow found out how to keep the ball on the table in any situation and when given time, he can make a FH topspin with a huge windup that starts in southern China and finishes in Alaska... almost never miss that... plus dude is super reliable in a rally, can lob too, ball is always different.

I have never missed so many easy shots in my power zone ever.

his serve is real basic and long, but damn, you are always looking for the ball to be deeper or have a different spin, so you play safe and dude has a very good 1st FH like me.

I talked to him about TTD and how we help out on vids, I hope he comes here and likes it here.

I should take a vid and show everyone how he is bossing me. The vid will likely show me way ahead of balls or out of position. Vid will not show his grip pressure, that is invisible.

Man I hae not being able to read his balls, but I REALLY need this guy to keep showing up and giving me practice vs that kind of impact, so i can develop a way to react to the ball instead of looking at the arm and body.

His awkward touch simply killed me. I Lost 3-0, 3-0, 3-2 all games tight, but no cigar for me.

I hope this dude becomes a TTD regular, given his long time playing and his touch to get to just under 2000 level DC/MD area, he MUST have good stuff to share with us.