This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Coaching people who can't generate racket head speed is one of the hardest things you can do in table tennis.
does he really treat it almost like a topspin ball?
The more topspin I put on the ball, the less I need to consider the existing rotation of the coming ball. The more spin I put on the ball, the less I need to consider the existing rotation.
Personally, I don’t see a clear difference between the topspin against topspin or backspin.
i've noticed a lot of people (my self included) try to use the body by leaning into the shot, as in follow the shot with both shoulders. this is not good, the result is much better if you follow the ball with the playing shoulder and move the other shoulder back as this way your body gets a turning motion.
Kim Jung Hoon Advocates this pulling back of the non-hitting shoulder before moving the hitting shoulder forward as you describe, gives the shot 10 percent more power.
In terms of the amount of forward motion and forward hit the stroke seemed to me to be far more aggressive than a spinny lift. Almost as if he is hitting through the spin. Obviously it is coming from low to high but the bat speed allows him to be very aggressive and attack, rather than start up loop then attack.
Have a read here at the topspin(Loop) section http://www.experttabletennis.com/stroke-development-tips/
Where Schlager talks about BS or TS when looping. Statements like
oh it is far more an aggressive loop drive than it is a spinny lift. but that is due to the powerful body turn, and the hand is still doing some heavy lifting/spinning.
did you know that the chinese did a research paper about how spinny the national team members loops are? they found out the shot with the most spin was the loop drive, it had even more spin than the slow loop. so what ma long is doing in this video is very fast and powerful but it is also VERY spinny.
i agree with schlager in the sense that the mechanics of a loop are always the same and you only adjust the angle depending on the type of shot you are dealing with and you want to make. and also i agree that the more spin you produce the less careful you have to be... but that doesn't mean you can have a "one loop to fit them all", unless the incoming spin is quite low. take a look at how much schlager varied his loops in the world championship final against joo se hyuk.
Jea i read that. wait let me search it... http://www.ittf.com/ittf_science/SSCenter/docs/199208013- Wu - Table Tennis Spin.pdf
I was impressed by two points:
- Loops drives have more spin than high loops, even though more energy is spent in hitting the ball flat.
They justify it that the player have trained the loops drive more and are better at using it. I think it also has to do with the way rubbers topsheet works together with the sponge. The rubber wraps more around the ball and gets more grip if you hit it flatter.
-Secondly Pips out player can reach similar spin! The highest pips out player had about 140 rotations per second and the best inverted had around 160 rotations! That's insane!
'
I wish there d be a tool to measure your spin! I bet mine is at like 30-40 max.
That PDF is a great find. We often used to have this discussion here. I always used to feel that a closed angle with perfect contact can produce greater spin and speed. However usually I will be waging a lone battle. I think the mental image of spinning the ball with an open angle is more dominant than vs closed bat angle. Closed bat angle also needs greater hand speed compared to a vertical lift. It is possible to hit very spinny topspins with a closed angle. This is just my intuition. Likely to be half-wrong at least.
All you have to do is learn how to spin the ball forward (which is pretty hard, though).
That 10%is a beast if executed perfectly. +1Kim Jung Hoon Advocates this pulling back of the non-hitting shoulder before moving the hitting shoulder forward as you describe, gives the shot 10 percent more power.
The physics work like this: If you take the ball early - off the bounce it has more energy and its rising. This means you don't need to generate that much energy by yourself and most importantly don't need that much lifting. That's why you can take it with a more horizontal motion. At least that's what they taught us in the trainer seminar and makes sense to me.
When you take it later on the ball is dropping, so you need to lift it with a more upward motion.
I'e always sort of suspected this, since I do power loop drives consistently. All you have to do is learn how to spin the ball forward (which is pretty hard, though). After that, you can just start looping harder and harder, and the ball will just keep getting more speed and spin. It will still go on the table, because you are looping forwards.
With the high loop, if you loop too hard upwards, you will go out, so there is like a pseudo-limitation.
The reason why most people think the high loop has more spin is because the spin to speed ratio is much higher.
So there is a real benefit to hitting with A LOT of power as opposed to less power? The gains in spin from a slower action with more brush will be surpassed by the same original brushing action with more force?The philosophy for looping with harder sponges and tacky rubbers is slightly different. There, you have to loop drive and because the catapult is relatively hard to get, you will get more spin and speed over a wider range of hard impacts than you will with softer sponged Euro rubbers. The trade off is ease of stroke speed at which the spin begins.
So there is a real benefit to hitting with A LOT of power as opposed to less power? The gains in spin from a slower action with more brush will be surpassed by the same original brushing action with more force?