Help Between DHS H301 or Butterfly Zhang Jike Super ZLC for Nittaku Hurricane Neo 3!

I would just get DHS H3 Neo Provincial for FH and get the red H3 that has the 37-degree sponge, like what Ma Long uses for BH. The softer sponged H3 will help your control on BH.

I would use it on the 301 blade. Or the FB blade or the ML 5.

You need to find a source that has real DHS National and Provincial rubbers. Not some online store that says they have H3 National or Provincial.

The ML 37 degree BH rubber is not available commercially. But the real rubber, not the H3-50, is what you want.

For the blade: I would rather use H301. SZLC is too bouncy and the dwell time is too small. Some times you don't even finish your stroke when the ball leaves the blade, thus less control. For tacky rubber like hurricane, you need a bit longer dwell time to brush the ball, control the throw and put more spin. SZLC is more suitable with non-tacky rubbers like EVO.

For rubbers, there are several things to consider:

1 Why do we use tacky rubber on BH?
Tacky rubber on BH has better spin and good for in-table touch. But it sacrifice the speed. The decision to use tacky or non-tacky on BH is depend on your BH styles. If your back hand is more of block or hit rally, it's better to use non-tacky for BH. The ball will be faster without compromising the spin ( for hit or block you are not generating good spin anyway). And non-tacky is not that sensitive to spin so easier to block.

But, if your BH style is more wrist and more flip style, like some of the pro players. If you try to brush the ball in every BH rally instead of simply hit block it, then tacky BH is a better choice. It will increase your backhand quality, the speed won't be slow as you put power to the ball with your flip and brushing.

2 What tacky rubber to use on BH?

You need a softer sponge on BH to increase control. For most of us, our BH power is less then FH power. We need softer sponge to increase dwell time of the ball thus for better control.

Like UpSideDownCarl said before, Ma Long use 37 degree H3 on BH, comparing with 41.5 on FH.

37 degree H3 is a better choice and it is commercially available in China.

But 37 is still a little hard for most of non-pro players. Liu Shiwen uses 36 degree. We were able to get a few sheets and they are really good control. But they are not commercially available now.

Hurricane 3-50 may be a good choice. Although is not good for FH comparing with neo H3, BH is a better choice. As the sponge is soft, you can feel the control without the need of constant boosting. You can start with 35 degree and then 37 degree when you are more comfortable.

Nittaku Hurricane pro 3 Turbo, this is a combination of Nittaku sponge and H3 rubber. Some review said is not at good for FH but the feeling is soft. I am just getting one of these to try on BH. Will write more review later.

GabrielO_TT said:

Thanks for the help guys, really appreciate it. At least I know which blade I should be using now.

i’m still very interested in considering the purchase of the nittaku variant, but the fact that the H3 Neo could be found with softer degree makes me reconsider the whole thing. Problem is, there’s probably no website that could provide that..

i remember reading a bit about the hurricane pro 3 turbo, and I read it was not as good for what I’m looking for (maybe for BH, but not for FH).

I just remembered that TTNPP sold some domestic versions of the H3 Neo, so I checked their website and found this:

http://ttnpp.com/store/dhs/339-neo-dhs-hurricane-3-iii-provincial-6-edges-6.html#

Not really sure if that product is legit, but I bought the H301 and a domestic version of H3 Neo from them (41 deg. and was too hard for me ofc) and they seem just fine. If I were to buy this, the red rubber (BH) would be 38 degree and black (FH) would be 39 (Though I am considering in getting both at 38?). Or, I would get the nittaku variant for both sides. Any thoughts?

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probably try prott, they have 37 degree. http://www.prott.vip/Product-Details.aspx?productcode=NEOH3provincialOrange

The problem with 37 is that you still need to constantly boost it. That's just the nature of hurricane sponge.

If you use H3 both side, it means you have to boost both side every few weeks.

For me that's a bit tiring. That's why I am trying 3-50 or nittaku turbo to see if I can find some tacky BH without the need of constant boosting.

GabrielO_TT said:

Though not a “booster,” isn’t rubber cement pretty much is a booster in itself? Rather odd question, but I use rubber cement for the Chinese rubbers, and it works pretty well. Can’t say for sure if it acts like a booster, never used a boosted rubber before, but I do notice that it has some similar characteristics as the ones people describe here when boosting.

Additionally, the H3 Neo I tested wasn’t boosted, and I really like how it felt. Must feel way better with a proper booster, but I can conform with how it is for now I guess.

In prott, I see they do have 37 degree, but only 2.1? (I'm guessing 2.1 and 2.15 are the same? They only have 2.1 in the options) In the case I were to buy this, would my forehand be 38 or 39 degree?

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I think rubber cement is a VOC therefore can't not pass current test. Current booster oil can do similar job but doesn't contain VOCs.

The H3 Neo is a lightly factory boosted version. The first few weeks will be fine. I would say if a new h3 neo is 100%. After 1 month it becomes 85% and after 2 months it becomes 70%. A properly boosted H3 or H3 NEO is 110%-120%

2.1 is prepared for professional heavy boosting.
If you boost heavily, a 2.15 or 2.2 non-neo version may exceed the 4mm maximum allowed limit. That's why there comes the 2.1mm version.

Normally we play 39degree forehand to archive better control. Only when you feel that's not powerful enough, then try 40.

The boost effect of rubber cement last for 12-15 hours. Booster oils, since they are oils that do not evaporate as fast as VOC oils, they last 3-5 weeks.

So using old fashioned rubber cement will cause a brief boost effect that is more like a gentle version of the old speed glues.

But the effects of boosters like Dian Chi, Haifu or Falco will last several weeks longer.

Also, I am not 100% sure the soft versions of H3 are as good for BH flicks as a rubber like Tenergy. Where the soft H3 rubbers for BH excel is in larger BH strokes.

Because a flick is a very small, fast stroke, the catapult of the Euro/Japanese springy rubbers works really well for over the table looping with BH. You can still do it with any rubber. But a rubber like T05 or T64 will help you more with those shots. Just look at how FZD actually uses the rubber to make those shots so fast.


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GabrielO_TT said:

Really appreciate your help, thanks.

As far as whether it’s a VOC or not, it is, but as far as I’m concerned, no one will be walking up to me and sniffing my racket any time soon so I guess I’m ok.

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Haha, then you are fine~~

I don’t know. Tenergy gets A LOT of spin. What makes H3 good is that it has a lot of control and so you can still swing full out and get the ball on the table and placed where you want it with full power.

Those giant swings that Ma Long takes would make it harder to have control with Tenergy. But with a compact and fast swing, a rubber like Tenergy excels.

Part of what you ought to know is that Tenergy and H3 generate spin in completely different ways.

H3 generates spin from topsheet, tangential contact and force. It is called topsheet spin.

Tenergy generates spin from what is termed mechanical spin. Here is how mechanical spin works:

You contact the ball while brushing. You make the contact deep enough for the ball to sink pretty far into the sponge but not far enough to hit the wood. As the ball sinks into the topsheet and sponge, the sponge wraps around a larger amount of surface area of the ball. Because the contact is tangential, as the ball sinks in, it stretches and distorts the topsheet as it compresses the sponge. As you do that you also hold the ball on the topsheet for a little longer. When the sponge and topsheet rebound it projects the ball out with a lot of spin. If you do the technique correctly and precisely much less effort will get you much more spin than you could hope to get with H3 and similar effort.

If you look at a guy like Timo Boll, in his prime, with T05, he had some of the spinniest loops in the pro circuit. But they were not as fast as Ma Long’s loops. Spinnier but not as fast. And he used much less effort.

So this is really much more about what you actually want.

H3 demands that you put full effort into all your shots and that your feet and body are in the right place to help your power. When that is the case you are able to take a much fuller swing while maintaining good control. The spin comes from the power you put into the shots. But if you put that power in, you get the results.

Spring sponge rubbers like Tenergy allow you to use the elasticity of the sponge and topsheet to create the extra spin. To utilize this, you need to have precision and good touch. Those are rewarded. But the full swing with raw power that H3 rewards, Tenergy will not reward in the same way. At a certain point the softer sponge of Tenergy will max out and you will get diminishing returns. The harder sponge of H3 with the tacky topsheet and less elasticity will reward more power.

But you better have amazing reset speed to use H3 effectively.


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In the end, reading this kind of info is not as useful as testing H3 for yourself and then testing Tenergy as well. So you can compare and decide for yourself.

I know I used H3 for years and then was convinced to try ESN rubbers because of something that was going on with my FH. I saw the benefit immediately.

At this point my technique is much improved and I could choose to use either. But I still way prefer spring sponge for my game.

Without giving both a fair shot and really testing what works best for YOU, the information is all just theory.

Go do the testing.

But if you are not getting A LOT of spin while using Tenergy, then something is off with your technique.


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From dhs, skyline 3-60 is best for backhand. Soft and very fast compared to h3.

I went with palio ak47blue which is lighter and more consistent (skyline is mildly tacky and the tack dies to even mild humidity), not to mention faster.

I have it on a dhs301 and its excellent.

Dhs301 itself is a blade built kind of like the h3 rubber in effect