Is double inverted the most viable setup to play?

NextLevel said:

Ah, pointing me to the Facebook page. Haven't seen that in a while.

I actually don't use Facebook at all. Anything you can share here on YouTube or another internet site?

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Those players lost to at the table long pips push blockers with a great 4h.
Ding Ning was beaten easily by #50 WR. Kanak Jha lost to an Iranian team member named Abbasi who has beaten quality Chinese in the last six months. There are some links to YouTube videos there.

It only takes 5 minutes to sign up for free at Facebook.

I can imagine many players have a hard time against this playingstyle if they never played it before, But they Do better the next time they play.

I also feel that this style is somewhat limited so proably need ro be very good with it to able to win over good players. But fun to see that it is possible to become good this way aswell.

I'm going to be somewhat controversial and say that the most viable set up for modern table tennis (at least the men's game) isn't double inverted. Instead its a fast a spinny SP on the forehand and an inverted on the BH. Mattias Falck might not be the best player in the world, but I believe his set up is the most viable for the modern game and offers the most potential.

StuartMarquis said:

I'm going to be somewhat controversial and say that the most viable set up for modern table tennis (at least the men's game) isn't double inverted. Instead its a fast a spinny SP on the forehand and an inverted on the BH. Mattias Falck might not be the best player in the world, but I believe his set up is the most viable for the modern game and offers the most potential.

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What is his setup?

Rakza PO max sponge on the FH. Razka X max sponge on BH. Yasaka Ma Lin Soft Carbon blade.

StuartMarquis said:

Rakza PO max sponge on the FH. Razka X max sponge on BH. Yasaka Ma Lin Soft Carbon blade.

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It is interesting that he do not have a faster blade for his short pimple forehand. But maybe he want that blade for his backhand, since he seems to be pretty backhand oriented.

Lula said:

But i still think that the amount of backspin is a very big and important part of a pushblockers playing style.

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As far as I know, at all times, and in the 38mm era, and in the 40mm era, and in the plastic era - the backspin of the blockers was always much weaker than backspin of the classic or modern defenders, and did not cause problems in the serial attack of the attackers. Problems for the attackers create exactly the placement, timing, and to some part deception.

Thus, now, in the plastic era, the blockers have lost a little bit of deception, but have gained more placement. I don't know what is more important.

I also agree u on this. The above mentioned thread about the coach an his legacy

i also agree on this, one more thing about the legacy of coach; he is just amazing and hardworker

He does not let his down his team member.

At every time and moment: there is always room for improvement

StuartMarquis said:

I'm going to be somewhat controversial and say that the most viable set up for modern table tennis (at least the men's game) isn't double inverted. Instead its a fast a spinny SP on the forehand and an inverted on the BH. Mattias Falck might not be the best player in the world, but I believe his set up is the most viable for the modern game and offers the most potential.

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This has weaknesses vs inverted and I don't think the strengths make up for it. There is a reason he is the only one.

FruitLoop said:

This has weaknesses vs inverted and I don't think the strengths make up for it. There is a reason he is the only one.

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Agree that the SP's have some weaknesses compared to inverted...but all rubbers are a trade off and do some things better and some things worse than other rubber types. That's why I say a fast and spinny SP like the one Mattias uses; something that is relatively close to an inverted as far as SP's go, rather than just any old SP.

Most top players don't use this set up, I agree...but then most top players have been developing their skills over many years and wont have necessarily done that with the rubbers that are the most viable for the game as it exists at this particular point in time. I just think Mattias Falck got lucky in the sense that he's been using a particular set-up for many years, and it just so happens (in my opinion) to be a set up that's particularly well suited to the game in its present state. Notice how Mattias has shot up the rankings in a time period that coincides with the introduction of the plastic ball - that could well be the evidence I'm looking for to back up my theory, although I can't say definitively that it is, of course, because there are too many other unaccountable variables!

I just think that a fast and spinny SP on FH and an inverted on backhand is the most viable arrangement for a modern, close-to-the-table power game in the plastic ball era, whilst the inverted on the BH allows a lot of aggressive BH play, particularly over the table flicks etc.

Would Harimoto be a better player today than he currently is if he'd have always used a fast and Spinny SP on FH from day 1 of his training? We'll never know, of course...but it's an interesting thought!

To me it seems that LP, SP and anti players often chose for that to mask a weakness.

The material itself comes with its limits. Whenever encountering a player with such a rubber, I tell myself this and try to find the weaknesses imposed by material and the underlying issue.

Against LP chopblockers that’s harder, for me anyway, but I rarely get into real trouble against anti, SP or chopping LP players. Unless they really are far above my level.

Usually, against SP and anti I play flat and fast, sometimes with abrupt changes of pace. Against LP variation is needed, and seeking uncomfortable FH/BH placement, depth, speed and spin variation.

Against someone with Mima Ito like skills I’d be beyond toast, though. Burnt cinderc rumbles. Skill always matters first and most.

I Do think that some players use it to mask a weakness. I think pushblockers with long pimple Do this because they can not play backhand. But if you are better at flathit than looping, i would not say that is a weakness. You are just more naturally better at that and short pimple Will suit you better. I would also say it is much harder to use short pimple than inverted.

It is much harder to use LP, SP, anti than inverted. I am a better player with inverted but age forced me to change. Weakness? Maybe as I am slower than before. But you guys should remember it is much harder to learn. So instead of thinking it masks a weakness think about how to beat it.

"Masking a weakness" is kind of a funny sentiment to hold... maybe the inverted players are masking their weakness at using short pips/LP/anti, by taking a handicap rubber that makes it easier to produce spin! After all, they do say it makes it easier to hit harder and keep the ball on the table... just sayin'

They're just different styles. If you play better with pips or anti, why not change? Or should you stubbornly stick with inverted rubber for no reason, other than someone on an internet forum might call you a loser if you use pips? lol

tropical said:

It is much harder to use LP, SP, anti than inverted. I am a better player with inverted but age forced me to change. Weakness? Maybe as I am slower than before. But you guys should remember it is much harder to learn. So instead of thinking it masks a weakness think about how to beat it.

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Much harder to do what? Each rubber makes it easier to do some things and harder to do others.

LordPippington said:

"Masking a weakness" is kind of a funny sentiment to hold... maybe the inverted players are masking their weakness at using short pips/LP/anti, by taking a handicap rubber that makes it easier to produce spin! After all, they do say it makes it easier to hit harder and keep the ball on the table... just sayin'

They're just different styles. If you play better with pips or anti, why not change? Or should you stubbornly stick with inverted rubber for no reason, other than someone on an internet forum might call you a loser if you use pips? lol

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Some people use it for style reasons but some people use it to mask a weakness or a relative inability to use inverted to loop and control spin. If your blocking is good but your looping is bad, then short pips at least give your blocking a different feeling. That is not really a style change. That is making a weakness.

That said some people do want to enhance their style. I am basically repeating Lula. That said, to pretend that no one makes the change to mask a weakness using inverted is just as bad as saying that no one uses pips because it suits their style.

NextLevel said:

Some people use it for style reasons but some people use it to mask a weakness or a relative inability to use inverted to loop and control spin. If your blocking is good but your looping is bad, then short pips at least give your blocking a different feeling. That is not really a style change. That is making a weakness.

That said some people do want to enhance their style. I am basically repeating Lula. That said, to pretend that no one makes the change to mask a weakness using inverted is just as bad as saying that no one uses pips because it suits their style.

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But, how many flat foots have you seen using pips or anti, where you saw them and thought... wow, if only they had stuck to double inverted they'd be so much better!

The people who are using them to cover a "weakness" probably wouldn't have gotten very far anyway.

Let's say they cant block very well or return serves while using inverted... so they swap to lp or anti and all of a sudden, they no longer lose easy points on serve or have their blocks go flying out. I just dont consider it covering a "weakness" because nowhere is it written that you must use grippy inverted to be good. You might be weak with inverted, but if that is solved by using lp... it's just another part of the game.

Would you call someone who cant block with anti or lp, a weak player? Even if they're very skilled with grippy inverted? Rubberism! Why are they only considered weak if they cant use the inverted? Nobody criticizes anyone for sucking with lp if they normally play double inverted lol