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    1. Top | #21
      AndySmith is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by lineup321 View Post
      I have a OFF- Blade SoulSpin Basalt. I normally use Dignics 05 both sides and tried the Dignics 80 BH per Dan's review. I agree with the review it has a strong bite, very accurate a pleasure to use. Will change to the 80 Dignics on my BH and keep the Dignics 05 FH.
      Any chance of a direct comparison between D05 and D80?

    2. Top | #22
      brokenball is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by guni4you View Post
      Even I am interested to know if it is better than R53?
      Define better.
      It is easy to quantify things like speed and spin by the coefficient of restitution but there are other things that may affect a player's choice like price, hardness and durability. The ratio of spin to speed may affect people's choice too.

      I don't believe the hype these rubbers get. Reviews without measurements are just opinions.

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    4. Top | #23
      lineup321 is offline
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      05 &80 are very similar:
      05 great dwell for my pendulum serves+ spin
      80 provides the ability to topspin most if not all BH shots and change pace, location and speed within a rally. 05 was similar but not to the same degree.
      Last edited by lineup321; 01-12-2020 at 02:45 AM.

    5. Top | #24
      LordPippington is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by brokenball View Post
      Define better.
      It is easy to quantify things like speed and spin by the coefficient of restitution but there are other things that may affect a player's choice like price, hardness and durability. The ratio of spin to speed may affect people's choice too.

      I don't believe the hype these rubbers get. Reviews without measurements are just opinions.
      Not sure what the hell all that means, Haha!

      But measurements are junk as well. Since people use different strokes and types of contacts. I think the crowd consensus is about the best way to judge a rubber I've seen. Or find someone who plays like you on similar equipment and see what they say

    6. Top | #25
      whocarez is offline
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      I would not mind to give Diginics 80 a spin, but I must say that the price point is now far beyond what I can manage. At my local retailer ttex, a sheet of T05 costs EUR 70 and D80 clocks in at a pretty round EUR 100. From before, the T05 was the most expensive rubber in the retailer's sortiment, but D80 takes it to a whole new level. Even with the 15% discount you may get when playing in a club.

      I think I will keep sitting on the fence. Knowing Butterfly from before, the price may never go down, or just change by a small amount once a new magical product is released

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    8. Top | #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by lineup321 View Post
      I have a OFF- Blade SoulSpin Basalt. I normally use Dignics 05 both sides and tried the Dignics 80 BH per Dan's review. I agree with the review it has a strong bite, very accurate a pleasure to use. Will change to the 80 Dignics on my BH and keep the Dignics 05 FH.
      Hi any reason why you are keeping D05 on FH. What differences do you find between them. According to review D80 is easier to use easier to generate more speed with less effort than D05.

    9. Top | #27
      Dipak1974 is offline
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      Can anyone give comparison of Dignics 80 to:-

      Dignics 05
      Tenergy 05
      Tenergy 05fx

      I currently use T05 on FH and T05FX on backhand. Previously used Dignics 05 on BH short time but found FX much easier to use and to generate spin.

      I am currently contemplating changing FH rubber to something more controlled and a tiny bit slower than T05. Reason being that during training drills I’m not always getting time to recover. As T05 shoots off faster off bat it obviously comes back faster and I’m not always in optimum position to play another good stroke but I don’t want something too slow that then won’t allow me to get outright winners like I do with T05.

      That’s problem I have, I am playing well and with T05 with speed and spin I do get outright winners but do I pick something that gives me that or something that may give me more consistency and time to recover.

      Cheers guys

    10. Top | #28
      lineup321 is offline
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      Dig 05 Spinner for serves.
      Last edited by lineup321; 4 Weeks Ago at 04:57 PM.

    11. Top | #29
      Dipak1974 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by lineup321 View Post
      Dig 05 Spinner for serves.
      Have you used Tenergy 05 before and how would it compare. I’m considering a change due to reasons I gave in a earlier post today.

    12. Top | #30
      lineup321 is offline
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      I used T05 and TO5H extensively. Dig 05 is spin+accuracy+speed not a heavy sponge action that blast the ball off your rubber. Dig05 allows for low spinner serves, with more control over placement but is fast enough to create long hard serves. Tenergy 05,05H seems like rally rubbers that gives U extra power to your shot but U lose some control relative to Dig05. I also use DIG 05 for flat hitting and smashes and it works fine but my focus is spin trying to place the ball and keep it on the table. The other issue is Pushes, T05,T05H could give some strong pushes but Dig05 gives U more options for close to the net play without pushing the ball long and also produces a very deadly low spinner backspin push directed at the opponents Hip. T05,T05H is power while Dig 05 creates pressure thorough accuracy and at times a nasty spin if one can accelerate the stroke.

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    14. Top | #31
      Dipak1974 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by lineup321 View Post
      I used T05 and TO5H extensively. Dig 05 is spin+accuracy+speed not a heavy sponge action that blast the ball off your rubber. Dig05 allows for low spinner serves, with more control over placement but is fast enough to create long hard serves. Tenergy 05,05H seems like rally rubbers that gives U extra power to your shot but U lose some control relative to Dig05. I also use DIG 05 for flat hitting and smashes and it works fine but my focus is spin trying to place the ball and keep it on the table. The other issue is Pushes, T05,T05H could give some strong pushes but Dig05 gives U more options for close to the net play without pushing the ball long and also produces a very deadly low spinner backspin push directed at the opponents Hip. T05,T05H is power while Dig 05 creates pressure thorough accuracy and at times a nasty spin if one can accelerate the stroke.
      Good info cheers. I used Digs 05 on Bh but changed to Tenergy 05FX as I found it easier to generate spin. With Dignics 05 I found stroke had to be almost perfect. Whereas T05fx even a light brush lifts backspin effortlessly. Short game with Digs05 was good so easy to keep ball short but I’m able to with FX as well. I did use it on FH for a few drills and found it slower than T05 and think for that reason decided to stick with T05 at that time. But at time of using it on my FH I wasn’t contemplating it for FH so I never fully tested it. Wish I had now. I do know that blocking with Dignics was brilliant.

    15. Top | #32
      Gwenved is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by thomas.pong View Post
      Thanks for another great review Dan and Tom!

      I had tried D05 on both FH and BH and did not care for it. Like you and many others have said, it requires a lot of effort to produce the desired spin, speed and arc while not feeling as dynamic and fun as T05.

      I was hoping/expecting that D64 and especially D80 would be different in that regard with their softer topsheets and that might create a more dynamic combination with the harder Spring Sponge X. That seems to be the case at least for D80 according to your video and that's good to hear and promising! I might have to give it a try on my FH eventually, although the price is a bit of a deterrent.

      PS: Would love to see you review Dignics 64 next and to hear what you think of its even softer topsheet combined to Sping Sponge X in comparison to D80 and D05.
      I'm thinking the same, D05 is quite hard to play but I'll wait a fx version, at the moment I'm back to T80fx 2,1, easier for me to create spin and fit better with my game.
      If they release in the future a D80 fx I'll try immediately. On the other hand I have a friend who's using D64 so I'll test even if it's not the same wood...

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    17. Top | #33
      brokenball is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by LordPippington View Post
      Not sure what the hell all that means, Haha!
      That isn't funny. It is sad. I am sure you are not alone though so I will explain. The coefficient of restitution is simply the ratio of the velocity after impact to the velocity before impact assuming the paddle is not moving. Obviously the velocity of the ball after impact will be less than the velocity of the ball before impact. In the Tiefenbacher document this number is about 0.6. I have never seen a setup with a ratio of 0.8 or higher documented.

      But measurements are junk as well.
      No they are not. They are the only true rating of the equipment itself. Everything else is just an opinion.
      Pathfinderpro did a pretty good job of evaluating rubbers and balls a long time ago. What was interesting is that Pathfinderpro would have two groups of players evaluate a rubber. The higher rated group and the lower rated group had different opinions about the SAME rubber.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k5SyIn4Ajw
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pY_iHtycaA
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9iuZ0qUXBA
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whqwE57M88g
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mi8bDK83K0
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdACvEvZjRM
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43WWRf5yW6M
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xilu8C-cQZM
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAECDI-Ruwo
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1E5T7xo57c
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU6cgRuhN28
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5BNkWN9s1E

      These are very good attempts at doing reviews.
      These videos are old. There is much better equipment now.
      My hat is off to Pathfinderpro because I know they took a long time to make.

      Since people use different strokes and types of contacts.
      Yes, so?

      I think the crowd consensus is about the best way to judge a rubber I've seen. Or find someone who plays like you on similar equipment and see what they say
      No, they are just opinions and feelings. Opinions will not help your play. At this time it is all about marketing. The Pathfinderpro approach is much better.

      I have seen too many cases where people think they see or know something but when you get the high speed cameras, data acquisition and recording equipment out they are proven wrong.

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    19. Top | #34
      thomas.pong is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Gwenved View Post
      I'm thinking the same, D05 is quite hard to play but I'll wait a fx version, at the moment I'm back to T80fx 2,1, easier for me to create spin and fit better with my game.
      If they release in the future a D80 fx I'll try immediately. On the other hand I have a friend who's using D64 so I'll test even if it's not the same wood...
      Yea, personally, I'd try D80 on the FH, but would most likely stick to T05 and T80 on the FH, and T05FX and T80FX on the BH. I've found T64 and 64FX to be too mushy for my taste, but I'm interested to read what you think of your friend's D64 and how its more spaced out pimple structure and softer topsheet works with the harder Spring Sponge X. Please let me know!

      I've been thinking if Butterfly will actually release FX versions of Dignics or not in the future ever since the series was first announced with D05.

      I think having FX versions might actually defeat the purpose of Dignics as it's meant to be hard and different than the Tenergy series. If you think about it, there's a 4 degrees hardness difference between regular Tenergy and Tenergy FX, and 4 degrees difference between regular Tenergy's and the Dignics... so in a way you could think of regular Tenergy's as the FX versions of Dignics, yet different of course.

      On the other end, Dignics' topsheet is new and updated from Tenergy and the spring sponge has been upgraded too so they could apply this to an FX sponge. Not sure if they will release Dignics FX having all that in mind, but it'd sure be very interesting if they did and I would very much welcome this new offering!

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    21. Top | #35
      LordPippington is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by brokenball View Post
      That isn't funny. It is sad. I am sure you are not alone though so I will explain. The coefficient of restitution is simply the ratio of the velocity after impact to the velocity before impact assuming the paddle is not moving. Obviously the velocity of the ball after impact will be less than the velocity of the ball before impact. In the Tiefenbacher document this number is about 0.6. I have never seen a setup with a ratio of 0.8 or higher documented.


      No they are not. They are the only true rating of the equipment itself. Everything else is just an opinion.
      Pathfinderpro did a pretty good job of evaluating rubbers and balls a long time ago. What was interesting is that Pathfinderpro would have two groups of players evaluate a rubber. The higher rated group and the lower rated group had different opinions about the SAME rubber.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k5SyIn4Ajw
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pY_iHtycaA
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9iuZ0qUXBA
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whqwE57M88g
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mi8bDK83K0
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdACvEvZjRM
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43WWRf5yW6M
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xilu8C-cQZM
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAECDI-Ruwo
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1E5T7xo57c
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU6cgRuhN28
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5BNkWN9s1E

      These are very good attempts at doing reviews.
      These videos are old. There is much better equipment now.
      My hat is off to Pathfinderpro because I know they took a long time to make.


      Yes, so?


      No, they are just opinions and feelings. Opinions will not help your play. At this time it is all about marketing. The Pathfinderpro approach is much better.

      I have seen too many cases where people think they see or know something but when you get the high speed cameras, data acquisition and recording equipment out they are proven wrong.
      "Any darn fool can make something complex; it takes a genius to make something simple."

      Same complaints from those youtube videos are valid - quality control with the rubbers (1 tacky 1 not tacky) etc. did not give accurate testing, especially not across multiple sheets etc.

      And as you mention, he found players of varied ratings thought the same rubbers behaved differently. That's where the technique and personal preferences come into play. Point being, you don't need a measurement or scientific rating system (especially not with some technical jargon to muddy the waters) to know whether you'll like the rubber or not. You just have to play with it.

      Last edited by LordPippington; 4 Weeks Ago at 07:03 AM.

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    23. Top | #36
      brokenball is offline
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      It isn't complicated. There is normal and tangential coefficient of restitution for describing speed and spin. That isn't complicated. I pay attention to the spin to speed ratio.
      If a "review" is only opinion then it isn't about the rubber, but how the player doing the "review" can use it.

    24. Top | #37
      yogi_bear is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by LordPippington View Post
      "Any darn fool can make something complex; it takes a genius to make something simple."

      Same complaints from those youtube videos are valid - quality control with the rubbers (1 tacky 1 not tacky) etc. did not give accurate testing, especially not across multiple sheets etc.

      And as you mention, he found players of varied ratings thought the same rubbers behaved differently. That's where the technique and personal preferences come into play. Point being, you don't need a measurement or scientific rating system (especially not with some technical jargon to muddy the waters) to know whether you'll like the rubber or not. You just have to play with it.

      Best response i have read. What use are these physics jargon if the readers themselves cannot relate to what they are reading.

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    26. Top | #38
      brokenball is offline
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      Some of those Pathfinderpro videos have 400K views.
      Assuming no one cares is wrong.
      Assuming no one understands is wrong.

      Getting back to the opinion based reviews.
      When I watch Dan and Tom hitting the ball back and forth, I would have a difficult time trying to figure out what rubber they are reviewing. Tom and Dan can make just about any rubber look good. What I would like to know is what can Dignics 80 do that T05 can't. I doubt there is anything that one rubber can do that another can't. They can all generate the same force with a slightly different stroke to adjust for the differences. What is also significant is what will Dan and Tom use after the review?

    27. Top | #39
      Dream2K is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by brokenball View Post
      It isn't complicated. There is normal and tangential coefficient of restitution for describing speed and spin. That isn't complicated. I pay attention to the spin to speed ratio.
      If a "review" is only opinion then it isn't about the rubber, but how the player doing the "review" can use it.
      but where do you get these values when the manufacturers do not supply them?

    28. Top | #40
      brokenball is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dream2K View Post
      but where do you get these values when the manufacturers do not supply them?
      Perhaps that should be one of the requirement of being placed on the LARC but then I wouldn't trust a manufacturer to test itself. The ITTF could do it. It would kind of like getting a CSA, UL or CE rating.
      Once the equipment is setup it would be fast and easy.

      The manufacturers wouldn't like this because it would reveal that they are all frauds.

      I could do it but I am not going to buy rubbers I don't use nor spend the time. I can't dedicate equipment to TT since I/we have real work to do that makes money. I do have all the required equipment. Checking the normal coefficient of restitution is easy if you have a high speed camera. Perhaps even 240 FPS would work. The tangential coefficient of restitution would be trickier for most people although it would be easy to compare rubber's tangential coefficient of restitution in a relative sense.

      The problem is that no one cares enough to do it right.
      Even Pathfinderpro got burned out on his testing.

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