26th Asian Table Tennis Championship

[JeffM]

So close..
I was hoping he would have succeeded.

 

[zeio]

If we are taking these arguments clearly made in jest seriously, the Matsushima losses are all clearly to much older players, it is a bit weird to normalize them with arguments. Matsushima had competed favorably with Lebrun at the U15 level. Of course he might not meet the ridiculous standard of beating China, but he is going to be a good player.

What they really need is the return of Mizutani.

I think back in 2019, many Tieba users and some 5ch users seriously thought Harimoto, Niwa and Matsushima would complete the lineup for Paris 2024. Uda, Togami and Shinozuka were nobodies at that point, so those folks have had high expectations for Matsushima for several years now.

If Harimoto and F. Lebrun had not achieved so much in senior events at 14/15 and 15/16, respectively (the latter is only 7 months older than Matsushima), then Matsushima would have been given the child prodigy treatment like LYJ back in 2017/2018. But as of now, Matsushima being a good player won't cut it. With the revamped selection system now in place, he must become better than at least Uda, Togami, Shinozuka, Tanaka, and R. Yoshiyama to stand a chance for LA 2028, when he will be 21. If he doesn't by then, who knows how he will turn out for Brisbane 2032, when he will be 25. I mean look at Ito, who won't turn 23 until this October, already looks like a washed-up veteran.

The following video from Japan Open 2018 had been stickied on TV Tokyo Table Tennis Youtube Channel for a long time. It is still the most popular video with 13 million views.
https://www.youtube.com/@tabletennis/videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn4lExe2sb8

 

[NextLevel]

I think back in 2019, many Tieba users and some 5ch users seriously thought Harimoto, Niwa and Matsushima would complete the lineup for Paris 2024. Uda, Togami and Shinozuka were nobodies at that point, so those folks have had high expectations for Matsushima for several years now.

If Harimoto and F. Lebrun had not achieved so much in senior events at 14/15 and 15/16, respectively (the latter is only 7 months older than Matsushima), then Matsushima would have been given the child prodigy treatment like LYJ back in 2018. But as of now, Matsushima being a good player won't cut it. With the revamped selection system now in place, he must become better than at least Uda, Togami, Shinozuka, Tanaka, and R. Yoshiyama to stand a chance for LA 2028, when he will be 21. If he doesn't by then, who knows how he will turn out for Brisbane 2032, when he will be 25. I mean look at Ito, who won't turn 23 until this October, already looks like a washed-up veteran.

The following video from Japan Open 2018 had been stickied on TV Tokyo Table Tennis Youtube Channel for a long time. It is still the most popular video with 13 million views.
https://www.youtube.com/@tabletennis/videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn4lExe2sb8

Competition is better for sure in the JNT though I don't think other than Harimoto, there are any Mizutani level players. I am still confused though how a 16 year old is being knocked for losing to 19 year olds in competitions as evidence of his inability to compete on level playing ground. And like I said, Sora competed favorably with F. Lebrun at the U15 level. Let's just say that if he doesn't pan out, it is a waste of time hoping for Uda and Shinozuka etc. to pan out. It's weird using the Ito-example (she has be superseded largely by hungry peers, not by a significant drop in level), but in any case, the idea is how to beat China in the imaginary world that is possible.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Competition is better for sure in the JNT though I don't think other than Harimoto, there are any Mizutani level players. I am still confused though how a 16 year old is being knocked for losing to 19 year olds in competitions as evidence of his inability to compete on level playing ground. And like I said, Sora competed favorably with F. Lebrun at the U15 level. Let's just say that if he doesn't pan out, it is a waste of time hoping for Uda and Shinozuka etc. to pan out. It's weird using the Ito-example (she has be superseded largely by hungry peers, not by a significant drop in level), but in any case, the idea is how to beat China in the imaginary world that is possible.

yes its a bit the desert in Japan's Men's team after Harimoto. Harimoto isn't even dominating the domestic scene, let's say its about 50/50 when he plays Togami. But Harimoto has ups and downs and in a very good day, he's proven more than once that he's able to bring extraordinary performances against anyone.

Alas i think its not going to be better for a while in Japan Men's team. And all the hopes in the Women's team also rely on... Harimoto ! Miwa the little sister, i have high hopes on her. I don't want to give up on Hayata yet, but it looks like she's near the top of her potential already, like Hirano or Ito.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

There is a saying in Chinese that heroes comes from the youth (英雄出少年)

and we have been seeing so many youth (prodigies) making the senior (成) teams (少年打成人)
But the problem is, reaching the senior (成人) team is not enough, then must become giants (巨人)

Taiwan have list of youth that has the potential to step up.
Maybe some of them are late boomers (maybe it is a good thing, as the Japanese early boomers does look washed up)

 

[SFF_lib]

So close..
I was hoping he would have succeeded.

Lin's FH has improved significantly. FZD exploits Lin's over-reliance on BH. But it's not working as well as it did in the past. The gap is closing.

Another issue is Lin's short game. I wonder if playing 42 National H3 will improve Lin's FH further and improve short game??

 

[zeio]

MS R64
Noroozi vs Harimoto
114
711
114
63 TO for JPN , 73, 76 TO for IRI, 86, 87, 107, 109, 119

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

What a disaster

 

[zeio]

And all the hopes in the Women's team also rely on... Harimoto ! Miwa the little sister, i have high hopes on her. I don't want to give up on Hayata yet, but it looks like she's near the top of her potential already, like Hirano or Ito.

WS R64
Lee Eunhye 1-3 Hayata (17, -9, -8, -7)
LEH had the lead until the endgame in G2 (I think 9:7 to 9:11) and G3, and kept the score close in G4.

This scenario is what I've been anxious about Hayata, that is, "we simply have no idea how Hayata would perform under extreme pressure to succeed." It is fortunate she won her WS bronze at the WTTC 2023.

Again, Hirano has got the best win rate against CNT players in WS this year, ~67%, a career high. 1 of only 2 players to have beaten 2 core CNT players in this cycle, and the very player to end SYS's unbeaten record against foreign players.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1141421

At this point, it's fair to say Hirano and Ito have fulfilled their potential. It comes down to Hayata, who once said in a WTTC 2017 promo that "I hope to overtake them in the end".

Under the circumstances, this Olympic period is likely the only window for Hayata to catch up and be treated as equals down the road. It will only get harder the next cycle as they approach 28.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1141723

The pecking order, Hirano, Ito, Hayata, Kihara and Nagasaki, as listed by Kato, pretty much says it all (1, 2). It's no surprise that Kato "is paying the most attention to Hirano". Takurepo even goes further to state that "Kato has the most expectations for Hirano".

The clock is ticking. 2023 is the year for Hayata to not just rise to the occasion, but also lead the pack. It's been 6 years since she said about surpassing them, but sadly (and starting to get awkward), she is still catching up as of this writing.

https://mytabletennis.net/forum/for...tle=wtt-contender-zagreb-2023-6-267-2#1142859

Fun facts:
First time Hirano played SYS after 4 years and 9 months since Buenos Aires 2018.
First encounter in the women's singles event, and in the final.
First encounter between 2 players born after the year 2000 who have won the World Titles.
First time Hirano beats SYS. The last two matches at Buenos Aires 2018 were close.
First and only non-CNT player to defeat SYS in 3 years and 9 months (Ito 4-2 SYS, SF, Swedish Open 2019) and in the Paris 2024 period.
(Not 100% certain) First player to win a WTT event by defeating 3 CNT players, after first doing so at ATTC 2017.
(Not 100% certain) Highest win rate (8/15=53.3%) against CNT players in the Paris 2024 period.
Hirano (WR1 SYS and WR3 WYD in 2023) and Szocs (WR2 CM in 2022 and WR7 CXT in 2023) are the only 2 non-CNT players to have defeated more than 1 core CNT player in the Paris 2024 period.
WTT CT Zagreb 2023 F Hirano 4-3 SYS
Singapore Smash 2023 R32 Hirano 3-2 WYD

WTT CS Macao 2023 R32 Szocs 3-1 CXT
WTT CS Macao 2022 R16 Szocs 3-2 CM

 

[zeio]

WCQ had already given us a heads-up upon arrival.
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...eam-chinas-race-to-paris-2024-singles#1144355

又有高原反应了么💹
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8581047291

https://weibo.com/6407423563/NhkSMfBBU?refer_flag=1001030103_

https://weibo.com/6320391439/NhkN5dgtY?refer_flag=1001030103_
#王楚钦调动状态积极备战#

抵达平昌后的首次训练，@王楚钦___ 表示旅途劳顿有些疲惫，感觉不是很好，会慢慢调整，希望在开赛前找好状态。

https://weibo.com/6320391439/Nhl469U6r?refer_flag=1001030103_

99%

100%

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

What an amazing result. WTF !!

 

[zeio]

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/26th-asian-table-tennis-championship.31859/post-422750

As demonstrated by JWJ in the MT F, Japan needs an extremely FH-oriented player like Uda to at least make China sweat. Togami, Shinozuka, Tanaka and Yoshiyama can't play that role at all. The burden on Harimoto is too heavy.

Tanaka: Fixed that for you. Win rate never lies (when done right).

23WK33
MS

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Lin's FH has improved significantly. FZD exploits Lin's over-reliance on BH. But it's not working as well as it did in the past. The gap is closing.

Another issue is Lin's short game. I wonder if playing 42 National H3 will improve Lin's FH further and improve short game??

Lin was actually very tied going into that match.
doubles, mixed doubles and teams on the same day.
Think I heard someone saying it was18 games in one day, or something like that.
He played 2nd and 5th spot, which didn't make sense, other than, giving him more time to rest.
At least his injury seems to be a thing of the past

at the end, his serves was a lot more conservative and only did spin or no spins, compared to game 4 where he was attacking every ball from the serve and causing Fan to make tons of service return errors - giving point away.

His FH quality also dropped a lot as the game proceeded, some people in my corner was saying fatigue.
Maybe he needed another 1 to 2 days of rest, since they was traveling involved.

Lin has never played with H3, so I'm not sure if changing it will be ideal.
He does have access to it if he wanted.

The new gen of Taiwanese players are all BH strong, or should we say - more balance.
and it seems like a trend that get there, and then start working on your FH.
Kao and Huang is exactly that too.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

What a disaster

View attachment 26594

Those Irani's are not easy to play against,
Says Team Chinese Taipei

 

[TensorBackhand]

What a disaster

View attachment 26594

Needs to switch to D09c

 

[tackyfh]

What a disaster

I can't blame Harimoto tbh, his hand injury looks nasty

And congrats to Tanaka, if anyone knows where to watch other table than 1-4 please drop a link, thank you

 

[tackyfh]

Tanaka: Fixed that for you. Win rate never lies (when done right).

Right now him and Togami have the most balanced FH and BH in the mens team, but Tanaka is wittier in tactics and have better composure than Togami. They both face against Wang's serve and while Togami struggles, Tanaka was able to flick most of them back.

 

[zeio]

Yes to having the most balanced FH and BH. That's an interesting development. Looking back on my comments from 2017/2018, Tanaka and Togami were actually BH-oriented players just like Harimoto. The fact that Tanaka has 1 WTT title out of 1 final in 2023 and Shinozuka has 2 out of 2 in 2022 while Togami has 0 final appearances in this cycle says it all.

Also, I have forgotten that Uda 4-3 Xu Yingbin in QF, 4-0 Xiang Peng in SF, and 1-4 Xu Haidong in F of JBS back at WJTTC 2018. Check out in quote 2 Miyazaki's comment on the difference in philosophy between Japan and South Korea and you will see why Uda is good to have.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...0&title=wtt-feeder-otocec-2022-6-2026#1127880

You know what Togami is lacking the most? TT quotient. He has the skills but not the brain to get him through a winnable match. It has happened time and time again.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/table-tennis-backhand-video.19690/post-251275

Back in September, Japan and South Korea held a U12 and U15 joint training camp. Miyazaki was most impressed by the strong difference in philosophy.

http://sports.sina.com.cn/others/pingpang/2018-11-29/doc-ihmutuec4620460.shtml

　　宫崎义仁表示，在合练当中感受最强烈的是日韩两国教学方法的差异化，宫崎义仁举例说在联合训练当中，通常日本球员在反手击球之后侧身的幅度都不会很大，因为会考虑到还原的问题，但韩国的教练员在指导时强调一定要加大侧身的幅度，将脚迈出去，在韩国教练的亲身示范下，日本球员也看到了这样练习的威力，但因为在日本的训练体系当中，很少有这样的训练，所以合练中日本球员对这样的技术还不能很快掌握。
　　宫崎义仁总结说，“虽然日本和韩国两个国家都属于乒乓球比较强的国家，也都是亚洲国家，但是彼此之间训练体系和思路的差异化，的确是很让人觉得有意思的事情。”

Yoshihito Miyazaki said that the strongest feeling in the joint training is the difference of teaching methods between Japan and South Korea. For example, Japanese players usually do not step around that much after making backhand shots, due to recovery concern. However, Korean coaches stress during the guidance that they must increase the range of the step-around and let the feet out. Under the personal demonstration of the Korean coach, the Japanese players also saw the power of such exercise. Still, because there is very little such training in the Japanese training system, Japanese players can't master this technique quickly.

Miyazaki concluded "Although both Japan and South Korea are relatively strong table tennis countries and Asian countries, the difference in training systems and philosophies between them is indeed very interesting."

I should point out that Japan used to stress about FH only, and they admit that neglect of the BH in the late 80s led to their decline. For this reason, they now stress so much about drilling the BH to the young players. Yet, Harimoto said in a recent TV program after losing to WCQ in the Youth Olympics singles final that he relied too much on the BH and once his weapon got sealed he was helpless.

For China, the BH has undoubtedly gained more weight in recent years, but the central philosophy of "反手得勢，正手得分(lead with BH, score with FH)" still dictates.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/2018-world-junior-u18-tt-championships.19700/post-251377

Tanaka's BH is so fast. Yu Heyi couldn't keep up, but the FH step-around saved game 2.

Tanaka = BH. Yu Heyi = FH. It's a contest to see who forces his own game on the other.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/table-tennis-backhand-video.19690/post-251415

If you folks have time, check out the WJTTC men's team final, especially Tanaka VS Yu Heyi and Togami VS Xiang Peng. The commentators(one of them an Australian player) couldn't help but noticed that Yu and Xiang stepped around a lot and the strength of their FH. Tanaka and Togami both played like Harimoto with lightning-fast BH and caused so much trouble. In Tanaka's case, he could've won if he would step around to finish those pop-ups.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/2018-world-junior-u18-tt-championships.19700/post-251968

Joking aside, Uda had this to say after losing to Xu Haidong in the final. Xu changed his service from the 2nd game. The topspin and backspin jab serve caused Uda tons of trouble. He was forced to use chiquita, but that turned into the BH rallies and he lost them all. Overall, poor receiving played the major part in his loss, and not taking the 4th game sealed his fate.

He also talked about how he beat Xiang Peng. Xiang Peng has a strong forehand but relatively weaker backhand. To avoid FH vs FH rallies which he couldn't come out on top, Uda stayed close to the table and focused on moving Xiang Peng around to force a weak return that he could finish off with the FH.

JBT F at WJTTC 2018
Tanaka vs Yu Heyi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fFT-aZeC_I
Togami vs Xiang Peng
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHtSbhv5H70

 

[NextLevel]

I can't blame Harimoto tbh, his hand injury looks nasty

And congrats to Tanaka, if anyone knows where to watch other table than 1-4 please drop a link, thank you

How did he get injured?

 

[NextLevel]

Point/shot of the day...