A pathetic situation?

[Jslick89]

Hi Tony, I do not know personally what it takes to get through everything to become a US marine either, I only did 3 days in the Army. (@UpSideDownCarl gunna have a HUGE laugh at that expression)

I do have many friends who served and let me know enough stories for me to have a decent understanding though.

3 days...ahaha

Anyways, I understand what people say in this thread. I agree that it should be on the club owner to make sure everyone gets a fair chance to play.

However, I get why some higher level players might not want to play with lower level players. with only a limited amount of time to train, it might seem to be not very productive for a high level player to play with complete beginners. At my local club, there is a higher level player who does like to play with lower level players, but only so he can try and coach them. I respect the hustle. Hopefully one day i'll be good enough to coach some players and get some new students in such a fashion.

I can also speak to my own personal experience. Two years ago i was a beginner in this sport (although the club owner did give me an 800 USATT rating...lol). Thankfully on that first day I made a friend who was willing to play with me. And i also learned that if i showed up early, i could set my own table up, and someone would eventually be "forced" to play with me...haha.

Now i've improved a good amount over the last couple years, and i'm thankful that nearly anyone in my club would be willing to play with me and against me.

But because my training time is limited, i do try to play against players that are near my level or better. However, if i end up playing someone that is a lower level, i try to make the most out of that time but really focusing on my weaknesses (always trying to improve the backhand techniques).

Also, there will be times, maybe every3 or 4 club session where I will play with a complete beginner and I will give them any free tips that I can.

 

[blahness]

I haven't seen how US marines are trained, other than what you see in the movies....

I would say, our kids are not trained like US marines.... they too soft... we call them strawberry generation

Wouldn't say that the new gen is any "softer", it's just that society has changed and a lot of new gen are no longer so tolerant of the kind of physical/verbal abuse that the older gen went through when they were young, especially in the workplace. I have quite a number of younger gen at my workplace and they are diligent hard workers, but they will say no to any unreasonable demands for sure.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Wouldn't say that the new gen is any "softer", it's just that society has changed and a lot of new gen are no longer so tolerant of the kind of physical/verbal abuse that the older gen went through when they were young, especially in the workplace. I have quite a number of younger gen at my workplace and they are diligent hard workers, but they will say no to any unreasonable demands for sure.

attitude is not the same
back in the days, in TT circle - its either you succeed or you succeed.
Nowadays, it is okay if you fail, because you have mommy and daddy to fall back on.
And that seems to be the common traits with a lot of new gen kids.

The Olympian, turn coach in the school I'm at. He said, when he was 15 years old - he had no option but to push harder. Since he was earning an income then already as a TT player and had to help cover his younger sister's school fees. His dad was former miltary and was on a low pension and had no other income. He (15 year old) had to help cover expenses at home and TT was his only way to help the family, so he trained his life away to compete, and end up being nearly 20 years of pro, including having 10 years of league experience in Europe and Russia.

The discipline and attitude is no longer as what it was years ago.
The distraction of today has also increased hundreds of folds.

But yeah, the physical and verbal is no longer allowed.
I still remember an old (now retired) coach, would walk into the dorms at 2am and call the boys up for multiball.
I think that is Marine style training.
nowadays, that coach would be locked up in prison if he tried that

 

[blahness]

attitude is not the same
back in the days, in TT circle - its either you succeed or you succeed.
Nowadays, it is okay if you fail, because you have mommy and daddy to fall back on.
And that seems to be the common traits with a lot of new gen kids.

The Olympian, turn coach in the school I'm at. He said, when he was 15 years old - he had no option but to push harder. Since he was earning an income then already as a TT player and had to help cover his younger sister's school fees. His dad was former miltary and was on a low pension and had no other income. He (15 year old) had to help cover expenses at home and TT was his only way to help the family, so he trained his life away to compete, and end up being nearly 20 years of pro, including having 10 years of league experience in Europe and Russia.

The discipline and attitude is no longer as what it was years ago.
The distraction of today has also increased hundreds of folds.

But yeah, the physical and verbal is no longer allowed.
I still remember an old (now retired) coach, would walk into the dorms at 2am and call the boys up for multiball.
I think that is Marine style training.
nowadays, that coach would be locked up in prison if he tried that

Yet almost in all sports, the level of the new gen is significantly above the old gen. More "harsh" environment doesn't necessarily equal to better performance. Suffering for the sake of suffering, imo is pointless

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Yet almost in all sports, the level of the new gen is significantly above the old gen. More "harsh" environment doesn't necessarily equal to better performance. Suffering for the sake of suffering, imo is pointless

if you take the science and technology improvements, if there is no significant improvement, then everybody is a failure. So you can't really just compare results over generations just like that.

Skill set today is higher than yesteryears, as the game has evolved, but as the Olympian coach said, new kids have more skill sets today compared to his age (that is because it is a different era, not that these kids today are better), but they don't have the mental strength compared to kids his age.

you can't just take the top of the top and measure performance, since you probably don't know the history behind said "hardship"
you need to take the foundation of where this pyramid is based from.

maybe as a sport fan, you only see the results and that is understandable.
but if you speak to a lot of sporting coaching, this new generation is not as tough as before.
And this includes in China - where, if you can't make it, it is okay.

You also forget, a lot of today's success is from previous generations hardship.
Suffering for the sake of suffering has 2 parts, one part is correct, the other part is strawberry.
If you are the best of the best, suffering for the sake of suffering in your comfort zone is so much better than suffering in your non comfort zone.
If you havent been through these kind of experience, it is difficult to even talk about it or understand it. and that is maybe why you said a lot of things is pointless.

IE - do you know how many more kids today takes "Injury" time outs than before and sit out of training.
Its good they resting the body, but a lot of it is in the mind.
I had blisters in my foot - over another blister, that is over another, and I continued to train. Everybody was the same.
We didn't have matted flooring like the kids today, we didn't have aircon like the kids today.
You take out the aircon - see if the kids can train.
One of the school I know actually does that - turn off the aircon, to push the kids to a higher level to "suffer".
But to me, that is good training, as what if the match hall is not as cool as your comfort zone? you will forget how to play. Some parents will be okay, some will be suing the heck out of the coach for abuse and deem those kind of training as pointless. As I said, it is a strawberry generation. The kids needs to have heater when it is cold, aircon when it is hot.

 

[blahness]

if you take the science and technology improvements, if there is no significant improvement, then everybody is a failure. So you can't really just compare results over generations just like that.

Skill set today is higher than yesteryears, as the game has evolved, but as the Olympian coach said, new kids have more skill sets today compared to his age (that is because it is a different era, not that these kids today are better), but they don't have the mental strength compared to kids his age.

you can't just take the top of the top and measure performance, since you probably don't know the history behind said "hardship"
you need to take the foundation of where this pyramid is based from.

maybe as a sport fan, you only see the results and that is understandable.
but if you speak to a lot of sporting coaching, this new generation is not as tough as before.
And this includes in China - where, if you can't make it, it is okay.

You also forget, a lot of today's success is from previous generations hardship.
Suffering for the sake of suffering has 2 parts, one part is correct, the other part is strawberry.
If you are the best of the best, suffering for the sake of suffering in your comfort zone is so much better than suffering in your non comfort zone.
If you havent been through these kind of experience, it is difficult to even talk about it or understand it. and that is maybe why you said a lot of things is pointless.

IE - do you know how many more kids today takes "Injury" time outs than before and sit out of training.
Its good they resting the body, but a lot of it is in the mind.
I had blisters in my foot - over another blister, that is over another, and I continued to train. Everybody was the same.
We didn't have matted flooring like the kids today, we didn't have aircon like the kids today.
You take out the aircon - see if the kids can train.
One of the school I know actually does that - turn off the aircon, to push the kids to a higher level to "suffer".
But to me, that is good training, as what if the match hall is not as cool as your comfort zone? you will forget how to play. Some parents will be okay, some will be suing the heck out of the coach for abuse and deem those kind of training as pointless. As I said, it is a strawberry generation. The kids needs to have heater when it is cold, aircon when it is hot.

The needlessly harsh training also produces a lot of injuries and a lot of ruined lives. How many actually reach the top and make a living out of this? And how many end up with physical and mental scars that accompany them for the rest of their lives?
This is why i think it is pointless to suffer needlessly.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

The needlessly harsh training also produces a lot of injuries and a lot of ruined lives. How many actually reach the top and make a living out of this? And how many end up with physical and mental scars that accompany them for the rest of their lives?
This is why i think it is pointless to suffer needlessly.

that is the sporting world for you
do you think these world champions just get to the top by doing nothing?

it is pointless to one extend.
but what should they do? give up sport and follow academia?
different life for different people and sports people does sacrifice a lot.

btw, we take a total opposite
a kid that plays computer games all day long and each junk food and end up obese very early in life.
That also produces lots of injuries and ruined lives. no?

Also, 99% of the people you know who don't do sport, will never become the 1% out there.
So, should they all give up from doing anything because the maths doesn't add up?

There is no holiday for sports people.
Ask Lily Zhang when last she took a 2 week holiday.
or any junior player where they actually had a holiday during school holiday month. or did they up the training schedule during school holiday.

There is only 1 champion and 10s of thousands of people doing pointless thing
for what?
that is the sport you are following.
what do you suggest to change? lol
And since you in Australia - everyone there should just stop playing TT all together right?

I have to say, of most of people I know that have taken the sporting life
I have not met one that ruined they lives.
if they can survive to the end, there is one thing you call resilience that these people have achieved and that does have value in modern day society

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Having a vending machine outside the sports center helps too. A scenario may occur as follows:

Hey Cowboy! You look like you could use a soda / bobba tea / milk tea.

I can give you a two points head start; you win I buy you soda / bobba tea / milk tea.

And so, less two lonely people in the world...

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Having a vending machine outside the sports center helps too. A scenario may occur as follows:

Hey Cowboy! You look like you could use a soda / bobba tea / milk tea.

I can give you a two points head start; you win I buy you soda / bobba tea / milk tea.

And so, less two lonely people in the world...

how about a bar at the sport club...
few guys disappear during practice night
guess where to find them?

 

[blahness]

that is the sporting world for you
do you think these world champions just get to the top by doing nothing?

it is pointless to one extend.
but what should they do? give up sport and follow academia?
different life for different people and sports people does sacrifice a lot.

btw, we take a total opposite
a kid that plays computer games all day long and each junk food and end up obese very early in life.
That also produces lots of injuries and ruined lives. no?

Also, 99% of the people you know who don't do sport, will never become the 1% out there.
So, should they all give up from doing anything because the maths doesn't add up?

There is no holiday for sports people.
Ask Lily Zhang when last she took a 2 week holiday.
or any junior player where they actually had a holiday during school holiday month. or did they up the training schedule during school holiday.

There is only 1 champion and 10s of thousands of people doing pointless thing
for what?
that is the sport you are following.
what do you suggest to change? lol
And since you in Australia - everyone there should just stop playing TT all together right?

I have to say, of most of people I know that have taken the sporting life
I have not met one that ruined they lives.
if they can survive to the end, there is one thing you call resilience that these people have achieved and that does have value in modern day society

In the sporting world, like what you said the sportsmen and women already have hard lives and decisions, there's no need to denigrate them further for eg describing them as the "strawberry" generation. Especially as TT is becoming an increasingly physical game. Would you like it if some kid just said "k boomer" to you and denigrated all of your accomplishments?

BTW just fyi I have been through very hard training since young too (just not in TT but another area where I have achieved a very high level in). So I do know a bit about what I'm talking about.

 

[Der_Echte]

Wouldn't say that the new gen is any "softer", it's just that society has changed and a lot of new gen are no longer so tolerant of the kind of physical/verbal abuse that the older gen went through when they were young, especially in the workplace. I have quite a number of younger gen at my workplace and they are diligent hard workers, but they will say no to any unreasonable demands for sure.

Dude,

I do not believe you have been alive on planet earth long enough to have seen several generations, so I do not believe you would really know the difference.

I do not believe you have had many difficult times where you had to struggle for life, maybe even to stay alive. I do not believe you have much of a true idea of this.

Tony DOES.

And it is even worse than what Tony describes... in year 25-30 of my 30 yr military career, i would be in prison or lose a big chunk of my pay if I even raised my voice at someone to order them to do something. In my first 5 years, it was the norm to get in your face and call you all kind of stuff loudly and yell at you to order you to do something... and you damn well better do it right away. 5 years before i got in, you would get the dog crap beat out of you if you even looked at a sergeant wrong.

I do not believe you ever had the responsibility of a family while starting your life early in a world where it was not easy to get even normal money. The pressure a family you are responsible for is enormous.

 

[blahness]

Dude,

I do not believe you have been alive on planet earth long enough to have seen several generations, so I do not believe you would really know the difference.

I do not believe you have had many difficult times where you had to struggle for life, maybe even to stay alive. I do not believe you have much of a true idea of this.

Tony DOES.

And it is even worse than what Tony describes... in year 25-30 of my 30 yr military career, i would be in prison or lose a big chunk of my pay if I even raised my voice at someone to order them to do something. In my first 5 years, it was the norm to get in your face and call you all kind of stuff loudly and yell at you to order you to do something... and you damn well better do it right away. 5 years before i got in, you would get the dog crap beat out of you if you even looked at a sergeant wrong.

I do not believe you ever had the responsibility of a family while starting your life early in a world where it was not easy to get even normal money. The pressure a family you are responsible for is enormous.

I know the older gen has gone through a lot, but do you want your kids to live in a world where human beings have to suffer through this kind of abuse, or worse intentionally subject them to such abuse so that they stop being "soft"?

This might be a question for the "tough guys" out there.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

In the sporting world, like what you said the sportsmen and women already have hard lives and decisions, there's no need to denigrate them further for eg describing them as the "strawberry" generation. Especially as TT is becoming an increasingly physical game. Would you like it if some kid just said "k boomer" to you and denigrated all of your accomplishments?

BTW just fyi I have been through very hard training since young too (just not in TT but another area where I have achieved a very high level in). So I do know a bit about what I'm talking about.

I think you have no idea what I am talking about.
or have experience training kids for the past 10 to 20 years.
I am only 11 years, but every one around me has been doing 20 to 40 years of TT coaching. I'm the baby out there

how old are you?
So I can understand your position.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Dude,

I do not believe you have been alive on planet earth long enough to have seen several generations, so I do not believe you would really know the difference.

I do not believe you have had many difficult times where you had to struggle for life, maybe even to stay alive. I do not believe you have much of a true idea of this.

Tony DOES.

And it is even worse than what Tony describes... in year 25-30 of my 30 yr military career, i would be in prison or lose a big chunk of my pay if I even raised my voice at someone to order them to do something. In my first 5 years, it was the norm to get in your face and call you all kind of stuff loudly and yell at you to order you to do something... and you damn well better do it right away. 5 years before i got in, you would get the dog crap beat out of you if you even looked at a sergeant wrong.

I do not believe you ever had the responsibility of a family while starting your life early in a world where it was not easy to get even normal money. The pressure a family you are responsible for is enormous.

I'm not that old....haha
But yeah, when I was training back then, no cellphones, no snacks, resting area - no talking etc. We made sure to fill our water during break time, not once the time is up, then we start going to the toilet and filling water. We would run laps if we are late, not today. Just a smile from the coaches and saying hurry upl.

Nowadays, its so much more open. Some places are strict where cellphone usaged is only 10 mins a day, some is no cellphone during training, some is, you can check your cellphone during break time (since mommy needs to get hold of the kid).

When I told the pros and cons of cellphone management by TT team to a mom of a 14 year old girl, and shared the top team only has 10 mins usages, and when Saturday 5pm training ends, the cellphone can be collected and when they return, 8pm Sunday evening, it needs to get handed back in. and every day at 9:05pm to 9:15pm is the 10 min usage time...The mom was like - what if I need to get hold of my daughter. I told her, well, if it is urgent, you communicate with the coach. Then she said, what if the coach won't pass the message.... Then I was like.... kept quiet.

Some parents just need to communicate with the kids with either Apple Watch or via tablets and other communication devices nowadays. It is impossible to let go a cellphone. This is the mom, not the daughter... I am talking about.

 

[zeio]

I know the older gen has gone through a lot, but do you want your kids to live in a world where human beings have to suffer through this kind of abuse, or worse intentionally subject them to such abuse so that they stop being "soft"?

This might be a question for the "tough guys" out there.

After watching the army recruiment ad of:
China, yes;
Russia, yes;
United States, no.

 

[Der_Echte]

Yes, zeio, please do not get me started on recruitment ads... we were terrible in ads even decades ago, but the terrible caught up to those who may join, now we have a pile of Marxist entitled crybaby snowflakes in both lower and upper ranks.

 

[blahness]

I think you have no idea what I am talking about.
or have experience training kids for the past 10 to 20 years.
I am only 11 years, but every one around me has been doing 20 to 40 years of TT coaching. I'm the baby out there

how old are you?
So I can understand your position.

You also apparently have no idea about the counterpoints I made. I understood the points fully, it's a common thinking among the older gen. I'm just asking you to take a step back and look at the bigger picture in terms of coaching. Instead of looking at it like some sort of boot camp instructor. The kids will 99% not be able to make a living out of TT anyway, so what's the point of imposing close to abuse level situations on them? Might as well let them train happily, and maybe they will have something they can enjoy for the rest of their lives, instead of hating it when they eventually grow up and have to go into a different profession.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

You also apparently have no idea about the counterpoints I made. I understood the points fully, it's a common thinking among the older gen. I'm just asking you to take a step back and look at the bigger picture in terms of coaching. Instead of looking at it like some sort of boot camp instructor. The kids will 99% not be able to make a living out of TT anyway, so what's the point of imposing close to abuse level situations on them? Might as well let them train happily, and maybe they will have something they can enjoy for the rest of their lives, instead of hating it when they eventually grow up and have to go into a different profession.

Who said I abuse them? Haha
Who said they cant make a living out of it?

Your reply again have showed your cluelessness on what is happening on my side of the world

 

[blahness]

Who said I abuse them? Haha
Who said they cant make a living out of it?

Your reply again have showed your cluelessness on what is happening on my side of the world

I'm just trying to challenge the idea of "putting kids through hell" just to make them stronger. Or labelling kids nowadays being "straWberrY generation". They're kids and not that different to when you were kids. I bet your parents generation who grew up in war / depression times would have called you soft too. But did you turn up being terrible? Not necessarily.

I think it is an unreasonable sentiment among the older gen which is unfounded especially because the world is a tech based world now. What is required for today's world is not what is required in the world of the past.

 

[blahness]

I'm not that old....haha
But yeah, when I was training back then, no cellphones, no snacks, resting area - no talking etc. We made sure to fill our water during break time, not once the time is up, then we start going to the toilet and filling water. We would run laps if we are late, not today. Just a smile from the coaches and saying hurry upl.

Nowadays, its so much more open. Some places are strict where cellphone usaged is only 10 mins a day, some is no cellphone during training, some is, you can check your cellphone during break time (since mommy needs to get hold of the kid).

When I told the pros and cons of cellphone management by TT team to a mom of a 14 year old girl, and shared the top team only has 10 mins usages, and when Saturday 5pm training ends, the cellphone can be collected and when they return, 8pm Sunday evening, it needs to get handed back in. and every day at 9:05pm to 9:15pm is the 10 min usage time...The mom was like - what if I need to get hold of my daughter. I told her, well, if it is urgent, you communicate with the coach. Then she said, what if the coach won't pass the message.... Then I was like.... kept quiet.

Some parents just need to communicate with the kids with either Apple Watch or via tablets and other communication devices nowadays. It is impossible to let go a cellphone. This is the mom, not the daughter... I am talking about.

I'm not sure why out of the box thinking can't be applied here, just get a cheap af "dumb phone" which can only make calls and receive texts, that would solve both problems at the same time....

If I were a parent I wouldn't be comfortable with your proposed arrangement either.