A pathetic situation?

[jammmail]

+1 on blocking skills to make yourself incredibly popular. I got a lot of free coaching from very good players because I could block consistently.

Thats a really good point - if your good at blocking people will love to hit with you!

 

[Kopp]

The main reason I enjoy this forum is because of my extreme introvertism and shyness. It so bad that the last 2 times I went to the club, I just sat there and didn't play at all. I don't know if it's because of my low level of play or not being able to approach people? The only time I play is when pay coaches for an hour.
Okay, this is the time when you all call me names or throw insults at me.

Why don't you play with the ladies or kids first? Play double and just have fun! Talk to them and make some jokes while playing. It works like a charm, trust me. After a while, the men will start to give some attention. Just say hello, then ask them if you can play with one of them. Also, ask them to give a handicap, like 5-0.

 

[impluse101]

I understand what you feel.

1-Don't be shy, and just stand there
2-Talk with the owner of the club. He/she knows who is at your level and can match 2 players like that to play.
3-You can ask to the guys: " Can we train together ?" instead of " Can you play with me ? "

Your level can be low to play with high level players but at you can approach them by asking f.e: " Can you help me to improve my ....... f.e (fh topspin)" in that way then may practice with you.

This is good. But sometimes it is really awkward if the one you approached - the gap is too high - for me I was embarrassed.
I mean people at the club dont laugh, but you feel the boredom in 'em

 

[Draycott old man]

Really interesting post !!! I've been a member of my club for years and I have no problem asking for a practice with any other member at my club,the problem is the better players stick together and don't want play you and leave you sitting there.I will play with any new members whatever there standard as I always try to make everyone welcome 😁 I find it so sad that people come for one time but so often you never see them again!!! If I wasn't in a relationship I would dedicate more of my time to helping with coaching of the children!!! We need more people playing this amazing sport!!!!

 

[mightymouse]

These are things that I observe in few TT clubs that I used to be a member of:

1. Beginners (or low level players) come to a club, and no one wants to play with them. I usually approach them to knock around until he/she feels comfortable and play a game or two. The problem is, and I have experienced this many times, once he gets better and better, what does he do? He does not want to play with another new beginners who come to the club. Does he remember that he once such a player?

2. Old age beginners who come to the club and try to be good player. Because of their limitations, a coach (I hate this coach as he always look for short cut) advises them for a quick fix, using LP !! Now they train with the LP (without knowing standard technique of using inverted rubbers) and due to the strength of the rubbers (which many low to lower intermediate players can't handle against) they start winning games. And what do they do? They refuse to play lower level players now and always look to play against stronger loopers (with only push blocking technique). I hate them because they solely depends on their rubbers only. DON'T misunderstand me, I like to play against pips players, but I respect them for being good inverted players who later transform to be pips players. NOT a beginner who looks for a quick fix and can only fool another low level players, yet proud of it.

Most players want to play against better players. Understandable. But please remember the lower level players who we need to play with, so that one day they become as good as everybody else and we all have fun playing TT.

3. High level players come to the club and suddenly every member of the club try to challenge them. Usually the beginner / lower level players will be sitting only, because no one wants to play them. On the other hand, those low level players do not have the gut or confidence to ask those high level players to play with them (knowing their own low level skill). In the end, I am the one who usually ask them to play together.

AND the worst thing is: Suddenly all other senior members know that I do not mind playing with low level players / beginners. So what did they do? Every time beginners or low level players coming, they suddenly shout my name to accompany them.

My point is: all members need to play with beginners or low level players because we were once beginners as well. How do we feel if everybody ignores us because we are just learning?

 

[Draycott old man]

These are things that I observe in few TT clubs that I used to be a member of:

1. Beginners (or low level players) come to a club, and no one wants to play with them. I usually approach them to knock around until he/she feels comfortable and play a game or two. The problem is, and I have experienced this many times, once he gets better and better, what does he do? He does not want to play with another new beginners who come to the club. Does he remember that he once such a player?

2. Old age beginners who come to the club and try to be good player. Because of their limitations, a coach (I hate this coach as he always look for short cut) advises them for a quick fix, using LP !! Now they train with the LP (without knowing standard technique of using inverted rubbers) and due to the strength of the rubbers (which many low to lower intermediate players can't handle against) they start winning games. And what do they do? They refuse to play lower level players now and always look to play against stronger loopers (with only push blocking technique). I hate them because they solely depends on their rubbers only. DON'T misunderstand me, I like to play against pips players, but I respect them for being good inverted players who later transform to be pips players. NOT a beginner who looks for a quick fix and can only fool another low level players, yet proud of it.

Most players want to play against better players. Understandable. But please remember the lower level players who we need to play with, so that one day they become as good as everybody else and we all have fun playing TT.

3. High level players come to the club and suddenly every member of the club try to challenge them. Usually the beginner / lower level players will be sitting only, because no one wants to play them. On the other hand, those low level players do not have the gut or confidence to ask those high level players to play with them (knowing their own low level skill). In the end, I am the one who usually ask them to play together.

AND the worst thing is: Suddenly all other senior members know that I do not mind playing with low level players / beginners. So what did they do? Every time beginners or low level players coming, they suddenly shout my name to accompany them.

My point is: all members need to play with beginners or low level players because we were once beginners as well. How do we feel if everybody ignores us because we are just learning?

I believe most club players want to make the most out of there limited practice time so they feel they don't want to waste it with new players or beginner's!!! They want to play stronger players so they can improve, but if everyone ignores new players how are they going to improve or even still want to play Table Tennis. At my club it's the same 3 or 4 players who will give there time up to help try improve and keep them interested in table tennis!!! I had got so much out of training my girlfriend to play Table Tennis watching her improve is such a pleasure!!!! I always feel that if a beginner takes something away from my help then I'm very happy 😁😁

 

[Lazer]

Maybe I’m an oddball, but I don’t do this. I usually hook up with a training partner in the dressing room. I try to do this with different people all the time. Sometimes better sometimes worse. It’s rare to be rejected and when it happens most of the time they have an earlier commitment.

And also none of the trainers has ever interfered with equipment selection unless asked. They focus 100% on technique and tactics.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[impluse101]

Maybe I’m an oddball, but I don’t do this. I usually hook up with a training partner in the dressing room. I try to do this with different people all the time. Sometimes better sometimes worse. It’s rare to be rejected and when it happens most of the time they have an earlier commitment.

And also none of the trainers has ever interfered with equipment selection unless asked. They focus 100% on technique and tactics.

Cheers
L-zr

I went to a couple of clubs, and coaches/trainer normally ask the equipment you have if you have any - true only when asked or when they see you swing or form is little constricted. They normally just advise on other blade base on what they saw your playstyle and level. Or more commonly, just advise on proper rubbers to pair with your blade - again base on playstyle and level.

I dont mind this, coaches giving advise and options to better yourself, which from my experience is good since he asked someone in the club to matchplay - just for the day.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I believe most club players want to make the most out of there limited practice time so they feel they don't want to waste it with new players or beginner's!!! They want to play stronger players so they can improve, but if everyone ignores new players how are they going to improve or even still want to play Table Tennis. At my club it's the same 3 or 4 players who will give there time up to help try improve and keep them interested in table tennis!!! I had got so much out of training my girlfriend to play Table Tennis watching her improve is such a pleasure!!!! I always feel that if a beginner takes something away from my help then I'm very happy 😁😁

higher level players playing together is normal.
they want to train and test each other.

Lower level players needs to play against better players, that I agree.
but then I think there is a fine line. Is it the responsibility of the higher level players to groom lower level players? or is that the roles of club coaches?

If you go and play any sport, you are bound to have gaps between lower and higher levels.
Do you just start to play soft, or gentle against lower level players?
In most sports, it is just so difficult for lower level player to play with higher level, and table tennis is even more difficult.

And with limited times in a week, it could deem unfair to the higher level player.
Ie, the lower level player is also a higher level player over a total beginner.
So would the lower level player want to sacrifice they limited hours to go and groom a total beginner?

Hopefully the club has someone who will look after this part and cater to the new members or lower level players.

In South Africa, at a club where I used to coach quite a lot, the club owner would be that person and knock with new members, or lower level players. I don't think he expected anyone else to fill that role, and it makes sense, since everyone else is a paying consumer at the club.

 

[Der_Echte]

6 tables (including 1 in the back for training)
6-20 people at any given time.
1 area for sitting, right behind the barriers.
I know some of the members somewhat.
There are about 5 members at my level.

@FrenchFrog33 is this place a USA full time club open every day with its own facility?

 

[mightymouse]

I agree with the comments above: of course with limited playing time a player wants to maximize it by playing with higher level players. But let's say you can play 3 times at one time, why not spend one of those by playing with lower level players / beginners? So if everybody is doing this, then the beginners will have the chance to play more and improve.

Actually Tony's Table Tennis is correct. There should be someone who would help the beginners. Actually, at one of the club that I played long time ago, they have one dedicated coach who would train you and feed multiballs to low level players or beginners. The caretaker of that facility used to approach beginners to ask if they want to improve by practicing with that coach, with very minimal fee (very affordable). And when those beginners are getting better they are asked to play with other players in the main hall.

The problem with that arrangement is that this is the coach that I hate because most of the beginners were advised to get LP and train with LP. I once asked this approach (protesting actually) and his answer made sense: He said that people at certain age is hard to learn something new. When he/she feels that he/she does not improve after many training, they tend to give up (this is usually tested when they are playing against other players in the main hall). So to avoid frustration, he advises those "hopeless" beginners to use LP (or other pips) and train them. So when they go to the main hall and play with "other beginners who have graduated" or other better players who can't handle pips and they are winning by using LP (or other pips, even Anti), then he hopes that those players are happy and eager to keep playing TT.

Well I don't agree with his approach because I think someone needs to be trained properly, and then after they are decent, it's up to them if they want to get pips. But that coach made a lot of sense.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I agree with the comments above: of course with limited playing time a player wants to maximize it by playing with higher level players. But let's say you can play 3 times at one time, why not spend one of those by playing with lower level players / beginners? So if everybody is doing this, then the beginners will have the chance to play more and improve.

Unless it is part of the rules in the club, I doubt it is going to happen and if it does, it is rare and consider it lucky.

I have seen it happen before, but it will be more now and then, and not regular.
It is also common where the lower level players out number the higher level players
so it is mathematically impossible to be fair.

Maybe if there is a cost invovled (doesn't need to be a lot, could even be a drink afterwards), then it will be fairer - since the higher level player had to sacrifice time, in return for being a "practice partner".

The problem with that arrangement is that this is the coach that I hate because most of the beginners were advised to get LP and train with LP. I once asked this approach (protesting actually) and his answer made sense: He said that people at certain age is hard to learn something new. When he/she feels that he/she does not improve after many training, they tend to give up (this is usually tested when they are playing against other players in the main hall). So to avoid frustration, he advises those "hopeless" beginners to use LP (or other pips) and train them. So when they go to the main hall and play with "other beginners who have graduated" or other better players who can't handle pips and they are winning by using LP (or other pips, even Anti), then he hopes that those players are happy and eager to keep playing TT.

Well I don't agree with his approach because I think someone needs to be trained properly, and then after they are decent, it's up to them if they want to get pips. But that coach made a lot of sense.

I think it is also important to note, not everyone wants to improve.
some could just be social members, hanging out with friends and for them, that exercise is enough.
even with free coaching, it is a one-sided affair (i've seen it happened a few times)

Sadly, if the coach cost is low, the coach also won't have the hours to devote in developing the player.
sounds like a short cut to me, but given the circumstances of minimal fee, what could you do...
Table tennis is indeed a very technical sport. This is maybe where hardbats will come in better than inverted rubbers.

Here i'm talking like beginners should try "a new sport". meanwhile, I was chatting to another coach (formal Taiwanese senior team national member) and saying we should get some hard bats and learn how to play with it and have some fun (since we all had enough of speed and spin). lol.
Funny enough, that coach actually took part in the first world ping pong championships.
His first time playing with those bats, was at the tournament.

Back to the clubs...
One of the clubs I was at, had 6 tables.
they will separate the tables to different levels. (basically they have teams in 4 or 5 different leagues, and each table is for each league). That was maybe the closes to "fair play" within your level.
playing one up was permitted.

In Taiwan, you could easily get classes to work on your game, and then join community centers where you have dozens of players of different level, playing every single day (some people retire quiet young and play more TT a day than some pros in the west lol)

 

[blahness]

These are things that I observe in few TT clubs that I used to be a member of:

1. Beginners (or low level players) come to a club, and no one wants to play with them. I usually approach them to knock around until he/she feels comfortable and play a game or two. The problem is, and I have experienced this many times, once he gets better and better, what does he do? He does not want to play with another new beginners who come to the club. Does he remember that he once such a player?

2. Old age beginners who come to the club and try to be good player. Because of their limitations, a coach (I hate this coach as he always look for short cut) advises them for a quick fix, using LP !! Now they train with the LP (without knowing standard technique of using inverted rubbers) and due to the strength of the rubbers (which many low to lower intermediate players can't handle against) they start winning games. And what do they do? They refuse to play lower level players now and always look to play against stronger loopers (with only push blocking technique). I hate them because they solely depends on their rubbers only. DON'T misunderstand me, I like to play against pips players, but I respect them for being good inverted players who later transform to be pips players. NOT a beginner who looks for a quick fix and can only fool another low level players, yet proud of it.

Most players want to play against better players. Understandable. But please remember the lower level players who we need to play with, so that one day they become as good as everybody else and we all have fun playing TT.

3. High level players come to the club and suddenly every member of the club try to challenge them. Usually the beginner / lower level players will be sitting only, because no one wants to play them. On the other hand, those low level players do not have the gut or confidence to ask those high level players to play with them (knowing their own low level skill). In the end, I am the one who usually ask them to play together.

AND the worst thing is: Suddenly all other senior members know that I do not mind playing with low level players / beginners. So what did they do? Every time beginners or low level players coming, they suddenly shout my name to accompany them.

My point is: all members need to play with beginners or low level players because we were once beginners as well. How do we feel if everybody ignores us because we are just learning?

Yes, this is what I have seen happening in clubs too. Lots of uncool antisocial behaviour all around. I always have some hits with beginners and give them some free advice, make sure they have a good time hitting. After all we were once all beginners too. Unfortunately it seems like in most clubs ppl like you or me are more of the exception rather than the rule.

 

[FrenchFrog33]

@FrenchFrog33 is this place a USA full time club open every day with its own facility?

It is a "full-time" table tennis club, open 5 days per week.

 

[baynhanh145]

"Beat me and you'll win $100!" - print a big carton card and bring to the club and lets see.
Just joking, bro. You should go to another club. At my club, if someone sit alone for a while, the club owner will talk to him and play with him for a 3-set game, then he will collab to other to setup double match with that guy involved.

 

[Der_Echte]

It is a "full-time" table tennis club, open 5 days per week.

Thanks.

I wanted to know for sure before commenting.

Most USA clubs are rec center / community center free rent where tables are setup for a couple hrs 1-2x a week and you can do nothing but matches, often there are 5x the number of players than tables and you get on a table, lose, and wait 1-1.5 for another match to lose. it just costs too much to rent a building in USA and run a club and not lose big money in many places, unless you have DOZENS and DOZENS - like 50-100 kids paying 50-100 USD an hr to train. MAYBE such a place breaks even after expenses.

FF is in a "Small" full time club with its own facility and these are different animals. Pretty much everyone knows everyone in such a small club... but when you start, it is tough to establish yourself and get respect from people.

Being useful is IMO the best route to this. if you can block, feed, and do the other stuff better level serious players like, then they will work with you often.

It is already said and true. Players who are 4-20 levels better than others are unwilling unlikely and not motivated to play vs sucha gulf of level - there is no benefit for the higher player... unless you run into an oddball joker like me who gains when I spend time with some lower players.

Some small clubs run a handicap tourney once a month - that always involves everyone, but then later, the better players who want to win will not want to play vs over-handicapped players - sometimes the handicap system is tough. Over time, this fades too. it is tough in a club to make everyone involved and satisfied.

Sometimes, the only way is to get better at both the training helping and competition level. it takes a lot of time and determination - it isn't easy - it is almost like joining the US Marines and moving up. That takes extra ordinary determination and effort.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

it takes a lot of time and determination - it isn't easy - it is almost like joining the US Marines and moving up.

I haven't seen how US marines are trained, other than what you see in the movies....

I would say, our kids are not trained like US marines.... they too soft... we call them strawberry generation

 

[Der_Echte]

Hi Tony,

I used the US Marines comparison in a pretty literal fashion in terms of the required determination and effort required to really improve in the sport of TT as an adult who started TT as an adult.

The sustained effort one must endure to get to an even average level is enormous... and many give up well before that. The struggle within oneself on that journey is on par with what one must exert to become a Marine. (but they do it in a shorter timeframe)

That is why I said what I said.

 

[Der_Echte]

Hi Tony, I do not know personally what it takes to get through everything to become a US marine either, I only did 3 days in the Army. (@UpSideDownCarl gunna have a HUGE laugh at that expression)

I do have many friends who served and let me know enough stories for me to have a decent understanding though.

 

[NextLevel]

Hi Tony,

I used the US Marines comparison in a pretty literal fashion in terms of the required determination and effort required to really improve in the sport of TT as an adult who started TT as an adult.

The sustained effort one must endure to get to an even average level is enormous... and many give up well before that. The struggle within oneself on that journey is on par with what one must exert to become a Marine. (but they do it in a shorter timeframe)

That is why I said what I said.

This is especially true because of the spin aspect and many people hate/do not appreciate this.