Backhand smash tips

[blahness]

I found this video (Coach Meng videos are just all worth their video length in gold) and I think I know why my BH is trash against high balls - the wrist and arm movement is just not correct as there's no mechanism to pull the ball downwards hard on the followthrough. It's quite a simple fix but I wouldn't know about it if I didn't watch the video.

 

[NextLevel]

I found this video (Coach Meng videos are just all worth their video length in gold) and I think I know why my BH is trash against high balls - the wrist and arm movement is just not correct as there's no mechanism to pull the ball downwards hard on the followthrough. It's quite a simple fix but I wouldn't know about it if I didn't watch the video.

It is a good example of how conceptual and technical transfer from forehand to backhand can make a stroke better. It's one of the reasons I recommend using the same rubber on both sides while one is in the Larry learning stages up to even USATT 1600, so that this technical transfer is easier.

 

[blahness]

Tbh it's such a simple concept lol. With true full FH smashes the racket often ends up pointing down near the left hip. So with full blown BH smashes just do the same with the racket ending near the right hip (also explains why Fan Zhendong also has a lot of full blown BHs ending with racket near right hip - it's to create that downward pull to land the shot on the table).

Also watching a lot of pros do the BH smash is useless because a lot are tall af and therefore don't need this adjustment. Even arm only strokes are sufficient because they never have to hit the ball at eye height or higher.

 

[NextLevel]

Tbh it's such a simple concept lol. With true full FH smashes the racket often ends up pointing down near the left hip. So with full blown BH smashes just do the same with the racket ending near the right hip (also explains why Fan Zhendong also has a lot of full blown BHs ending with racket near right hip - it's to create that downward pull to land the shot on the table).

Also watching a lot of pros do the BH smash is useless because a lot are tall af and therefore don't need this adjustment. Even arm only strokes are sufficient because they never have to hit the ball at eye height or higher.

It's exactly the kind of thing that the people who claim that follow through doesn't affect ball quality have no way of explaining.

 

[zeio]

Tbh it's such a simple concept lol. With true full FH smashes the racket often ends up pointing down near the left hip. So with full blown BH smashes just do the same with the racket ending near the right hip (also explains why Fan Zhendong also has a lot of full blown BHs ending with racket near right hip - it's to create that downward pull to land the shot on the table).

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...for-bachhand-topspin-against-backspin#1055315
It's been over 4 years. How time flies.

In table tennis, biomechanics is one of those topics that's severely "underlooked (suspicion and mistrust)" compared to strokes. We see that all the time. We often ask for comments on our strokes but too often the focus is placed on interpreting the superficial form (for/against) rather than deriving the underlying principles of biomechanics (how/why). Put another way, this is what we are doing, but for the former, we somehow ask "is that what we are really doing or should be doing?", whereas for the latter, we ask instead "do we reflect (faithfully or appropriately in words) what we are really doing or should be doing?" It's like prescriptive and descriptive grammar.

 

[blahness]

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...for-bachhand-topspin-against-backspin#1055315
It's been over 4 years. How time flies.

In table tennis, biomechanics is one of those topics that's severely "underlooked (suspicion and mistrust)" compared to strokes. We see that all the time. We often ask for comments on our strokes but too often the focus is placed on interpreting the superficial form (for/against) rather than deriving the underlying principles of biomechanics (how/why). Put another way, this is what we are doing, but for the former, we somehow ask "is that what we are really doing or should be doing?", whereas for the latter, we ask instead "do we reflect (faithfully or appropriately in words) what we are really doing or should be doing?" It's like prescriptive and descriptive grammar.

Lol I read my own posts and it's funny how much of a terrible BH I had back then which the posts reflect too 😂 asking about elbow positioning and bat tip direction. I ended up with bat tip pointing to mostly side during contact, and elbow close to body with maybe a fists distance. My BH has developed into my main weapon, probably exceeding my FH in some cases.

But yeah it's the same discussion about Fan Zhendong and Wang Hao actually finishing their strokes with racket pointing down next to the right leg (the "pressing down" BH that Ttgold referred to). I find that a reason for that is that they're shorter than the other CNT members and also frequently have a low wide stance. So they often have balls at head level which is very hard to loopkill down to the table if you don't have this "pressing down" mechanism. The taller players have an almost unfair advantage of being able to play high balls at chest level, thus they never needed this adaptation.

 

[brokenball]

It's exactly the kind of thing that the people who claim that follow through doesn't affect ball quality have no way of explaining.

I can explain what I believe.
I want you to explain how the follow through affects the trajectory of the ball after the ball leave the paddle.
I know you can't.
You are losing or have lost all credibility.


I know that hitting high balls to the BH is difficult. Sometimes you have enough time to step around and hit with the FH. Other times you must wait until the ball falls to at least chest level and then blast it.

BTW, there is a video some where on YouTube where Olivier Mader AKA the Pushblocker tries to return high serves to his BH. It is almost comical. The problem is that the PushBlocker didn't or couldn't twiddle and blast the ball with his inverted side.

I sometimes play with a Firewall+ and Giant Dragon Talon 0X like PushBlocker. The differences is that I can twiddle and if I can step aside to use my FH, my FH is much better.

Also, the BH may not be as strong as the FH but it is more than strong enough for TT. Tennis players often simply hit back balls to their BH. Some may use two hands but not most. A tennis ball is MUCH harder to return than a TT ball when you consider speed and mass, momentum and kinetic energy. You guys are wimps if you think otherwise.

 

[NextLevel]

Tbh it's such a simple concept lol. With true full FH smashes the racket often ends up pointing down near the left hip. So with full blown BH smashes just do the same with the racket ending near the right hip (also explains why Fan Zhendong also has a lot of full blown BHs ending with racket near right hip - it's to create that downward pull to land the shot on the table).

Also watching a lot of pros do the BH smash is useless because a lot are tall af and therefore don't need this adjustment. Even arm only strokes are sufficient because they never have to hit the ball at eye height or higher.

Nah, don't give pros credit for always having optimal technique. That isn't the reason why they are pros.

That said. Not sure height is the issue. Benedict Olah I think smashes with the beat of them and he is pretty tall too.

 

[NextLevel]

I can explain what I believe.
I want you to explain how the follow through affects the trajectory of the ball after the ball leave the paddle.
I know you can't.
You are losing or have lost all credibility.


I know that hitting high balls to the BH is difficult. Sometimes you have enough time to step around and hit with the FH. Other times you must wait until the ball falls to at least chest level and then blast it.

BTW, there is a video some where on YouTube where Olivier Mader AKA the Pushblocker tries to return high serves to his BH. It is almost comical. The problem is that the PushBlocker didn't or couldn't twiddle and blast the ball with his inverted side.

I sometimes play with a Firewall+ and Giant Dragon Talon 0X like PushBlocker. The differences is that I can twiddle and if I can step aside to use my FH, my FH is much better.

Also, the BH may not be as strong as the FH but it is more than strong enough for TT. Tennis players often simply hit back balls to their BH. Some may use two hands but not most. A tennis ball is MUCH harder to return than a TT ball when you consider speed and mass, momentum and kinetic energy. You guys are wimps if you think otherwise.

I have explained it so many times, including on the thread that zeio just referenced here from 4 years ago. If you couldn't understand my explanation then, I have little motivation to explain it now. But the logic is simple and Ttgold on that thread makes the point clearly as well so you can read him if you find understanding me over your head.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

I'm rather good at this BH smash, but i was abusing it, trying it even when its obvious im late on the ball and have a high chance to miss... my bat angle for the smash was a bit too open so if i wasn't taking the ball from a little bit above it became very risky. I also use a little bit the wrist at contact for this shot as if slapping

now i go for a hard topspin attack instead of the smash more often. if the ball bounces high and is short, notably if it has backspin it, i find it safer to go for topspin. then the most important thing is to come fast near the ball and take it from above with the bat angle being horizontal, and brush it, use the wrist of course.

 

[blahness]

Nah, don't give pros credit for always having optimal technique. That isn't the reason why they are pros.

That said. Not sure height is the issue. Benedict Olah I think smashes with the beat of them and he is pretty tall too.

I think you misunderstood my post. Taller players have an advantage in BH smash because more balls are at chest height or lower which makes it easier to press down. It's harder for shorter players to BH smash imo because balls can come up to head height very easily. PechPong who is also on the shorter side also has the exact same issue and he talked about it on his videos.

 

[blahness]

I'm rather good at this BH smash, but i was abusing it, trying it even when its obvious im late on the ball and have a high chance to miss... my bat angle for the smash was a bit too open so if i wasn't taking the ball from a little bit above it became very risky. I also use a little bit the wrist at contact for this shot as if slapping

now i go for a hard topspin attack instead of the smash more often. if the ball bounces high and is short, notably if it has backspin it, i find it safer to go for topspin. then the most important thing is to come fast near the ball and take it from above with the bat angle being horizontal, and brush it, use the wrist of course.

Yes that is where I want to end up too, with a powerful BH topspin against all these high balls like the way Fan Zhendong blasts it.

 

[vossi39]

Hmmm.. if I look at the heights of the balls in the video, I‘d rather recommend to work on your footwork, then learning this (in my opinion wrong) backhand smash. You have ample time to pivot and smash with your forehand.
Have you seen any WTT match, where a player raised his backhand to shoulder heights? Any modern backhand stroke is played before your body. Even backhand topspin today starts no longer at your hip, like in earlier days, but before your stomach.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Hmmm.. if I look at the heights of the balls in the video, I‘d rather recommend to work on your footwork, then learning this (in my opinion wrong) backhand smash. You have ample time to pivot and smash with your forehand.
Have you seen any WTT match, where a player raised his backhand to shoulder heights? Any modern backhand stroke is played before your body. Even backhand topspin today starts no longer at your hip, like in earlier days, but before your stomach.

a more realistic game play is that player need to be moving towards bh corner and executing a high backhand shot.
Not really a high enough feed, but it is similar when away from table.

 

[vossi39]

Well... If you are already in a situation for Cross-Over (time pressure), then you would never take the ball at smash height, but let the ball drop to around net height (gives you more time to get into position) and loop, not smash.
So I assume, you also view the shown smash technique in the first video as irrelevant and simply wrong, do you?

 

[blahness]

Hmmm.. if I look at the heights of the balls in the video, I‘d rather recommend to work on your footwork, then learning this (in my opinion wrong) backhand smash. You have ample time to pivot and smash with your forehand.
Have you seen any WTT match, where a player raised his backhand to shoulder heights? Any modern backhand stroke is played before your body. Even backhand topspin today starts no longer at your hip, like in earlier days, but before your stomach.

Firstly, there are scenarios where having a BH smash is handy, especially after a crossover to the FH and the opponent gives you a high wide BH ball.

Learning a BH smash doesn't mean I don't pivot lol - it's just an additional useful tool that I can use.

Furthermore I've seen Fan Zhendong BH loopkill shoulder height balls. He is extremely good at it and has won many points this way - I think this is one of his many strengths.

My takeaway from this video is not necessarily the positioning (rarely will you be able to be perpendicular to the table like that for the BH), but how he demonstrates to pull the ball downwards in a BH stroke.

 

[IB66]

I can explain what I believe.
I want you to explain how the follow through affects the trajectory of the ball after the ball leave the paddle.
I know you can't.
You are losing or have lost all credibility.


I know that hitting high balls to the BH is difficult. Sometimes you have enough time to step around and hit with the FH. Other times you must wait until the ball falls to at least chest level and then blast it.

BTW, there is a video some where on YouTube where Olivier Mader AKA the Pushblocker tries to return high serves to his BH. It is almost comical. The problem is that the PushBlocker didn't or couldn't twiddle and blast the ball with his inverted side.

I sometimes play with a Firewall+ and Giant Dragon Talon 0X like PushBlocker. The differences is that I can twiddle and if I can step aside to use my FH, my FH is much better.

Also, the BH may not be as strong as the FH but it is more than strong enough for TT. Tennis players often simply hit back balls to their BH. Some may use two hands but not most. A tennis ball is MUCH harder to return than a TT ball when you consider speed and mass, momentum and kinetic energy. You guys are wimps if you think otherwise.

The follow through doesn’t affect the ball after contact. That’s not the point.
My golf coach used to say that you could have a textbook take away and down swing to impact and the worst follow through AFTER impact and hit superb shots.
But the follow through is part of what you are trying to achieve, and sometimes explaining how the ‘finish‘ should look and feel, helps what comes first.

 

[vossi39]

Furthermore I've seen Fan Zhendong BH loopkill shoulder height balls. He is extremely good at it and has won many points this way - I think this is one of his many strengths.

Leave the cross over scenario aside, which is not the point in the first video. In the video you are told to turn aside (left should back and even put your left foot behind), take your arm around shoulder height and then smash the ball downward. And this is plain wrong.

Especially looking at FZD. If he needs to kill a ball with his BH, he is stretching up and moves down forward to press the ball before his body. He certainly does not turn sideways and does not move his arm diagonal from top left to right down.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Well... If you are already in a situation for Cross-Over (time pressure), then you would never take the ball at smash height, but let the ball drop to around net height (gives you more time to get into position) and loop, not smash.
So I assume, you also view the shown smash technique in the first video as irrelevant and simply wrong, do you?

there is different reasons to be hitting the ball at different heights

the OP video is a tutorial video.
In turns on learning, you need to learn everything.
how you play is a different story, but you need to have every skillset in the stable.

I see nothing wrong to learn to hit the ball high, so to me, it is not irrelevant.
This is just like me training girls to pivot. In real life, they won't pivot.

remember, when you let the ball drop to net height, you also affording your opponent the time to get ready for the incoming ball

or I can also add, rather just let the ball drop below the table and do a snake? lol

 

[zeio]

In the video you are told to turn aside (left should back and even put your left foot behind), take your arm around shoulder height and then smash the ball downward. And this is plain wrong.

For/against rather than how/why again. I guess it is inevitable.

https://youtu.be/kP0gel2YTKE?t=767