BREAKING: Ma Long & Fan Zhendong boycott CHINA OPEN!

[ping fun]

As i was searching on weibo i saw more photos of xx ml and fzd together . It made me teary cause they didnt get to their goal while it was a brave move
one of the reporters of table tennis ( i saw her in one of the videos in ttd before ) has sent a photo with a funny but emotional title :

Three fool . I love u ( they look really innocent )

 

[yourock]

They are now just tasting the black art of "terrorism". Next come self criticizing .. been there done that!

sounds like how people criticize self and even criticize family members during Cultural Revolution.

 

[yourock]

I went to China 1st time in 2004. Brought some soft X Korean DVD's and got stopped at the Shenzhen/Hong Kong border. Without any translators, the border police made me watch 24 Korean soft porn dvd's and signed a letter of confession about damaging China's reputation. Finally they let me go and I didn't try to bribe them after 12 hour ordeal for such trivial thing. So think about this case, folks. It is no simple matter. These players made the organization/government lose face. Future is very bleak for them.

Wow, dude, your black history.

 

[yourock]

The apology letter on players' Weibo was the exactly same content as the one issued on CTTA website earlier. Each player's apology letter has more than 30,000 comments from netizens.

 

[yourock]

The post of apology letter from Sina Sports account has more than 50,000 comments.

 

[Greco]

I went to China 1st time in 2004. Brought some soft X Korean DVD's and got stopped at the Shenzhen/Hong Kong border. Without any translators, the border police made me watch 24 Korean soft porn dvd's and signed a letter of confession about damaging China's reputation. Finally they let me go and I didn't try to bribe them after 12 hour ordeal for such trivial thing. So think about this case, folks. It is no simple matter. These players made the organization/government lose face. Future is very bleak for them.

Wow , what an experience.
I'll remember that if i go to China some day

 

[jelt2359]

By non-informative, I mean some articles are basically reporting a match result, without in-depth interview with the players/coaches. Some are just a copy from ITTF-Chinese or Table Tennis World Magazine. Some are a summary of several posts on Sina Weibo. Only a few journalists are trustworthy because they can meet the team in person.
Social media is taking over in China. TT fans get info from Weibo first, not from news website.

I am sure there will be a fine and/or ban. GAS will not give up at this point. However, after the apology letter, Sina Weibo stopped deleting posts which are in support of the players and related topics can be found in hot searches. People are angry about Sina Weibo deleting posts including a high profile Communist Party Magazine account (yes, Sina can delete posts from an account who represents the Party as along as Sina gets paid and GAS may have to pay the bill this time). People are not judging the behavior of the players now. They know these guys are #WR1,2,3 and win a lot of champions and they are brave. That's enough. Instead they are questioning more about GAS because of the same apology letters. Many new posts are about the appointment of LGL as CTTA VP because it violates CTTA regulations.

Actually maybe this is where we disagree. I believe that ultimately, what's going to decide this is not going to be the view of serious Table Tennis fans in China. If it gets big enough (why do you think they're rushing to contain it)? You will be able to walk down the street in any Chinese city and ask anyone, Table Tennis fan or not, and they'll have an opinion.

That opinion is unlikely to be that giving up on the China Open is patriotic or fair.

These guys are not going to go to Weibo to look for table tennis news. They're going to find out via CCTV, via mainstream news, and via what their friends share on Weibo and WeChat. Their friends are going to be regular Chinese citizens who are sharing news articles like 'ML, XX and FZD apologises', and start to ask, 'what went wrong'?

Personally, I know many more of these non-TT Chinese fans. They know enough about table tennis to know even who Ai Fukuhara is, but they've never played a serious game in their life. They know Ai Fukuhara, btw, from her interviews on Chinese TV, and have never seen her play.

These are the people who I believe aren't going to be very positive about what ML, XX and FZD have done.

 

[rainneverever]

But you have to understand that I am Chinese myself and I have different Wechat or Tecent groups (hobby, classmates, colleagues) and people who do not care about TT are all talking about this incidence in the group or share articles. Articles on Wechat spread more quickly than you can imagine.
The first reaction of these people is the players are stupid but brave to stand against authority. And they know the players cannot win this time. They are just interested in the drama, especially politics involved. And after the apology letter, people trust even less in authority. And I can tell you what ordinary people think about contents on CCTV news: only the date is real. Don't be fooled that Chinese people are brainwashed by CCTV.

Actually maybe this is where we disagree. I believe that ultimately, what's going to decide this is not going to be the view of serious Table Tennis fans in China. If it gets big enough (why do you think they're rushing to contain it)? You will be able to walk down the street in any Chinese city and ask anyone, Table Tennis fan or not, and they'll have an opinion.

That opinion is unlikely to be that giving up on the China Open is patriotic or fair.

These guys are not going to go to Weibo to look for table tennis news. They're going to find out via CCTV, via mainstream news, and via what their friends share on Weibo and WeChat. Their friends are going to be regular Chinese citizens who are sharing news articles like 'ML, XX and FZD apologises', and start to ask, 'what went wrong'?

Personally, I know many more of these non-TT Chinese fans. They know enough about table tennis to know even who Ai Fukuhara is, but they've never played a serious game in their life. They know Ai Fukuhara, btw, from her interviews on Chinese TV, and have never seen her play.

These are the people who I believe aren't going to be very positive about what ML, XX and FZD have done.

 

[Baal]

That is what I am interested to know, so thanks guys.

It will be well known in China that the players' Webo accounts were closed with an official message, and then 15 hours later they all post the same "apology" obviously written today by some ideology officer. My prediction would be about 60% of people think this is an abuse of power and 40% think the players are deeply at fault and betrayed their country, and 100% know that in either case the players will not come out on top.

What do you guys who can read Webo think of that guess? Am I far off?

 

[rainneverever]

Yes, Baal, you are far off... Maybe ask your spouse to check Weibo? Just search the players name and see the comments.

There are very few people who believe the players betray the country because from the very beginning, TT fans keep making posts and telling people there is no flag raising ceremony of ITTF World Tour and the players already paid for their behavior of no-show-losing ranking points and potential prize money. A lot of media reported these facts.

Of course there are arguments whether there are real problems with the previous management of CNT under LGL. But there are also questions about the ambiguous structure reform. What make most people angry is that GAS abuses power to delete posts. They might be neutral on the no-show but as they dislike GAS, they stand by the players.

We shall just wait for what GAS and CTTA do next. I don't believe the players will be kicked out of CNT after reading that "apology letter".

 

[rainneverever]

What is ITTF doing? Double penalty?

http://www.ittf.com/2017/06/25/upda...long-fan-zhendong-xu-xin-china-open-forfeits/


The International Table Tennis Federation (ITTF) has received a preliminary statement from the Chinese Table Tennis Association (CTTA) and a public apology from the Chinese Table Tennis Team which can be found here.


In the coming days, the ITTF has requested a detailed report from the CTTA and also from the ITTF officials on site outlining in more detail as to why the three players failed to turn up for their round of 16 matches.


The ITTF World Tour is one of ITTF’s most prestigious products, with millions of fans, and countless partners following around the globe with anticipation to watch the world’s best players in action.


For this reason, the ITTF is taking this matter extremely seriously, as this has damaged the image and the integrity of table tennis globally. Right now, all potential sanctions are on the table, and the ITTF will continue its investigation before any decisions are made.


The ITTF will also work closely with its Athletes’ Commission to try and get a better understanding as to why this incident happened, and provide education and guidance to the players to ensure such an incident does not happen again in the future.

 

[Baal]

Thanks Rain. Very interesting. I am glad I am far off.

Sadly, my numbers would be close to accurate if something analagous happened here in the US right now.

 

[Baal]

F U Weikert! Keep out of this.

 

[NextLevel]

F U Weikert! Keep out of this.

I actually think Weikert stepping in gives the players better cover.

 

[jelt2359]

It is reaching the point where I am beginning to think it is not conducive to discuss further, so I'd rather unplug and wait for more developments going forward.

But I'll say this, from an outsider's perspective. Clearly that's very different from Rainn's perspective, which I respect. China is more rightfully seen as a continent, not a country. It's certainly big and populous enough, but more than that, cultures and views differ greatly across Xinjiang, Tibet, Sichuan, Beijing, Shanghai, Jilin, Guangzhou, etc. It is often convenient to talk in terms of sweeping generalisations (everyone thinks this!). But I believe that Baal's view is more accurate- how many % think this and how many % think that? It's never going to be the case of '100% of people think they are brave', or, '100% of people don't believe a word they see on CCTV!'. Again, China is a continent, a big one at that.

A final comment- might even a nuanced, mature Table Tennis fan accept that both sides are right, that the GAS is clearly abusing their authority (that the government would do this is not news to anyone who even remotely understands China), but also that the Chinese players should not have given up the China Open?

Why do I keep harping on the latter?

Personally, I have never seen a more patriotic country than China. When news of Tibetans fighting for independence broke a few years ago, my Chinese friends- who are Ivy-league educated, are today CEOs and CFOs in China, and who are people I respect and look up to a lot in every way- said simply,with the utmost innocence and sincerity, "I simply cannot understand why a Chinese citizen would want to turn their backs on their own country!" Case closed.

From then on I have kept this phrase in my heart and reminded myself of it again and again, whenever I come across situations that may even have the slightest hint of connection with Chinese patriotism.

But again, this is all my view. I am not a Chinese citizen, so that perspective is bound to be very different from rainn's. Please take it with the appropriate pinch of salt.

 

[rainneverever]

I fully understand your perspective, jelt. But this incident is so unique, which make both left-wing and right-wing people agree that the players may have reasons to do so as victory and national pride are the top priority of CNT and GAS needs to give a satisfactory explanation. You may need to know that the director of GAS has done many stupid things people dislike as vice mayor of Beijing. Some self media (not TT fans at all) are summarizing good things of LGL and CNT by images/videos/articles. Some self media are summarizing bad things of GAS and the new director. They may not take side but want to attract reads. It is a battle in social media (Weibo, Wechat, etc), not simply between CNT and GAS.

 

[jelt2359]

What is ITTF doing? Double penalty?

http://www.ittf.com/2017/06/25/upda...long-fan-zhendong-xu-xin-china-open-forfeits/


The International Table Tennis Federation (ITTF) has received a preliminary statement from the Chinese Table Tennis Association (CTTA) and a public apology from the Chinese Table Tennis Team which can be found here.


In the coming days, the ITTF has requested a detailed report from the CTTA and also from the ITTF officials on site outlining in more detail as to why the three players failed to turn up for their round of 16 matches.


The ITTF World Tour is one of ITTF’s most prestigious products, with millions of fans, and countless partners following around the globe with anticipation to watch the world’s best players in action.


For this reason, the ITTF is taking this matter extremely seriously, as this has damaged the image and the integrity of table tennis globally. Right now, all potential sanctions are on the table, and the ITTF will continue its investigation before any decisions are made.


The ITTF will also work closely with its Athletes’ Commission to try and get a better understanding as to why this incident happened, and provide education and guidance to the players to ensure such an incident does not happen again in the future.

This is expected, and is exactly what they should do.

The first thing I thought of- at the very least they need to make sure this was not the result of gambling and corruption. That's true if this had happened in any sport, btw, not just TT.

 

[yourock]

BREAKING: Ma Long & Fan Zhendong boycott CHINA OPEN!

There is hatred against China government, not just against Sports authority. Most of people are taking this chance to let out their accumulated complaint/dislike towards authority. So, at this stage, no matter what authority says, people will always have a feeling like "FK you, I don't want to listen, you're wrong. Athletes are as innocent as us commoners". In this case, no one would think players were putting national honor in jeopardy.

 

[yourock]

I saw a post last night. It said, all CNT players and coaches were still in Chengdu, except Ma Long. Ma Long was out of touch, not sure if he had left Chengdu or still there.

 

[rainneverever]

ML is also in Chengdu. ML/XX/FZD did not show up publicly. QZJ and Ma Lin showed up in the lobby of the hotel.

http://sports.qq.com/a/20170625/002821.htm

I saw a post last night. It said, all CNT players and coaches were still in Chengdu, except Ma Long. Ma Long was out of touch, not sure if he had left Chengdu or still there.